WhiteSox2023 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 20 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Right now, they have one pitcher who can get through the 5th inning on a regular basis. By the middle-end of June, they should have Clevinger, maybe Keller, Nastrini/Cannon getting through the 5th, and saving the bullpen, some, and they'll ramp him down. You don’t risk injury to your one and only good starter by extending him more innings just because your other starters can’t get through the 5th inning. You throw the shitbird relievers out there instead and you sign or call up more garbage pitchers (i.e. Keller) to continue to eat the innings. The Sox have the worst record in baseball so maintaining Crochet’s arm is far more important than winning games. Edited April 15 by WhiteSox2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: To be fair I literally can't think of another pitcher being asked to go from essentially no innings base at all to a starters load over the course of a current season. Even a guy like Chris Sale or Jose Quintana had something like 70 or 80 innings in previous seasons, while Crochet comes no where close to it. The thinking is by extending him so quickly, you increase the risk of injuries in the shorter term. Maybe 70 pitch outings while extending up to say 100-120 innings that way are better than doing it in 3 months while pushing past 90 pitches to 100. If you save an inning or two with shorter starts now, it allows him to work more starts over the course of the season to get to his innings peak for the year, instead of being shut down sooner, or worse hurt from fatigue. Wasn't it you I went around with for a day, arguing about whether Garrett Crochet threw any game innings that weren't logged on stat sites? He's the healthiest he's probably been in his career. Right now, the Sox need somebody to eat innings. Maybe once Clevinger's aboard, Keller, Nastrini or Cannon look capable, they won't use Crochet as the stopper regularly. I have read that the thinking now is that the 90 pitch outings aren't harmful. It's the longer innings that are the real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You don’t risk injury to your one and only good starter by extending him more innings just because your other starters can’t get through the 5th inning. You throw the shitbird relievers out there instead and you sign or call up more garbage pitchers (i.e. Keller) to continue to eat the innings. The Sox have the worst record in baseball so maintaining Crochet’s arm is far more important than winning games. Well, 90 pitch outings aren't a risk for Crochet, so the point is moot. The question was about using up his innings early. There will be other pitchers coming that will take the onus off of Crochet, within a week, or so. It's not a worry that they're going to "use up" his innings early. And if they do, who cares? Start the shitbird starters back out there, and we can ask you every game if you like seeing what you were asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Wasn't it you I went around with for a day, arguing about whether Garrett Crochet threw any game innings that weren't logged on stat sites? He's the healthiest he's probably been in his career. Right now, the Sox need somebody to eat innings. Maybe once Clevinger's aboard, Keller, Nastrini or Cannon look capable, they won't use Crochet as the stopper regularly. I have read that the thinking now is that the 90 pitch outings aren't harmful. It's the longer innings that are the real problem. The healthiest Crochet is like the healthiest ILoy. It is typically a temporary situation which will soon lead to the inevitable. I don't see a need to rush it along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: The healthiest Crochet is like the healthiest ILoy. It is typically a temporary situation which will soon lead to the inevitable. I don't see a need to rush it along. Well, that being said, I've had it beaten into my head, here, that Crochet is so fragile, handing him a baseball is an injury risk. The risk in throwing 70 innings a game is virtually the same as throwing 90 innings. As far as reaching his limit sooner, I'm guessing the "100 innings" is rolled into starts, with monitoring. Maybe he starts pairing with Davis Martin when he returns, each taking 3 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: What’s wrong with what he said "Trying to run Crochet into the ground" is an exaggeration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 I see Jake the Snake is not having a good year yet. He does have 3 homers and 15 RBI which would help our lineup. Not getting on base or hitting for average, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Hey the Marlins are 3-14. Maybe they'd ship us back Jake Burger for a few minor league pitchers. They're going nowhere and we need Jake back! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 No spot for him to play and he is a marginal DH. We sold high on him. Let it go folks. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 10 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: No spot for him to play and he is a marginal DH. We sold high on him. Let it go folks. Eloy was our DH and can’t stay healthy. Moncada was our 3B and can’t stay healthy. Vaughn is our 1B and can’t hit. There were definitely places for him to play. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Eloy was our DH and can’t stay healthy. Moncada was our 3B and can’t stay healthy. Vaughn is our 1B and can’t hit. There were definitely places for him to play. Jake has a 0 fWAR and -0.1 bWAR. The most likely outcome of this trade is that neither Burger nor Eder are players of any real consequence. Burger is a DFA candidate in a few years and Eder will be lucky to be a lefty MLB reliever. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 16 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Jake has a 0 fWAR and -0.1 bWAR. The most likely outcome of this trade is that neither Burger nor Eder are players of any real consequence. Burger is a DFA candidate in a few years and Eder will be lucky to be a lefty MLB reliever. This is a great post. This is definitely the most likely outcome, but it isn't a bad idea for a team looking to do everything they can to get future value into the system. The idea being if you bring in 3-4 Jake Eder's maybe you get one rotation starter out of the bunch, which is WAAAAAY more valuable than any Jake Burger's during disastrously bad years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: This is a great post. This is definitely the most likely outcome, but it isn't a bad idea for a team looking to do everything they can to get future value into the system. The idea being if you bring in 3-4 Jake Eder's maybe you get one rotation starter out of the bunch, which is WAAAAAY more valuable than any Jake Burger's during disastrously bad years. I agree with that. I think that’s what Hahn was attempting to do last TDL when he acquired Nastrini, Bush, and Eder. If you get one quality starting pitcher and one quality reliever out of that group it’s a great outcome tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 The message is I like your garbage better than my garbage. Sox have potentially the worst lineup ever so hitters are coveted right now. If they end up with 25 wins they deserve to be shipped off to the North Korean League or contracted. Gertz is making history before our eyes. Meanwhile according to survey- 53% prefer football, 27% prefer baseball. We need a village to compete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Jake has a 0 fWAR and -0.1 bWAR. The most likely outcome of this trade is that neither Burger nor Eder are players of any real consequence. Burger is a DFA candidate in a few years and Eder will be lucky to be a lefty MLB reliever. I guess you don’t always gotta believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) 4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Jake has a 0 fWAR and -0.1 bWAR. The most likely outcome of this trade is that neither Burger nor Eder are players of any real consequence. Burger is a DFA candidate in a few years and Eder will be lucky to be a lefty MLB reliever. I wonder if Burger's worst enemy is the offseason. He's off to a slow start after a good season last year. 34 homers and 80 rbi isn't bad even for modern lift and pull era. Edited April 16 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 On 4/15/2024 at 11:04 PM, greg775 said: I see Jake the Snake is not having a good year yet. He does have 3 homers and 15 RBI which would help our lineup. Not getting on base or hitting for average, though. He has a negative WAR. He'd fit right in with our current group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) On 4/16/2024 at 1:01 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Jake has a 0 fWAR and -0.1 bWAR. The most likely outcome of this trade is that neither Burger nor Eder are players of any real consequence. Burger is a DFA candidate in a few years and Eder will be lucky to be a lefty MLB reliever. That was always the most likely outcome. Eder was a lottery ticket. He was a high upside arm coming off TJS who had frontline stuff before the injury. He appears to have not regained his velocity pre injury if he never does he projects probably to a more back end rotation type starter. Still the thought process of taking a chance on Eder is solid because if you hit the dream is you end up with another Spencer Strider (injured again) type but if you don't, you lose a marginal DH 1.5 ish war player. Its a chance I'd take every day. Edited May 6 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 The amount of vitriol the Burger trade received was of epic proportions. Yes, he would be an everyday player on the Sox roster. Doesn't change the fact that he isn't that good. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Burger is a nice guy and a cool story after battling injuries. His performance in Miami after the trade may end up being an outlier, as he's hitting like he did with the Sox while getting more playing time. Time will tell with Eder, but as others have pointed out, one of the most likely scenarios is neither guy turns out to be much of a player. Sure, his power numbers would look decent on the Sox right now, but his BA would fit right in with the schlub parade that gets rolled out daily. There are a few folks on Twitter that are absolutely obsessed with Burger (and TA) and wax ad nauseum about them and how much they want them back. Neither guy would add much value to the Sox right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 25 minutes ago, hogan873 said: Burger is a nice guy and a cool story after battling injuries. His performance in Miami after the trade may end up being an outlier, as he's hitting like he did with the Sox while getting more playing time. Time will tell with Eder, but as others have pointed out, one of the most likely scenarios is neither guy turns out to be much of a player. Sure, his power numbers would look decent on the Sox right now, but his BA would fit right in with the schlub parade that gets rolled out daily. There are a few folks on Twitter that are absolutely obsessed with Burger (and TA) and wax ad nauseum about them and how much they want them back. Neither guy would add much value to the Sox right now. I have a feeling the same thing will happen when the Sox release Eloy and Moncada after this season. Some people out there love them. There is just no future in where those guys can make this team a contender. They cannot be relied upon to perform. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 11 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: I have a feeling the same thing will happen when the Sox release Eloy and Moncada after this season. Some people out there love them. There is just no future in where those guys can make this team a contender. They cannot be relied upon to perform. Can’t wait for the day we move on from them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: He has a negative WAR. He'd fit right in with our current group. How come only 57 at bats for Jake? He does have 15 RBI which would be a high amount on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, greg775 said: How come only 57 at bats for Jake? He does have 15 RBI which would be a high amount on the Sox. He's hurt. Shocking I know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Is Jake kind of a free spirit? I get the vibe of a fun loving Babe Ruth-ish type personality where he'd love a good hot dog in about the 7th inning. He just seems Curley-esque to me. Maybe we can get him back on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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