The "Is it over or not?" thread

[WCSox]

I'd actually like to shop Santos around. Santos has been a revelation for us and may end up a top closer for the next 6 years for all we know, but he still is an out-of-options player who needs to continue developing at the Major League level, and if someone came along offering an extremely talented prospect who is close and has option years remaining, especially a position player or SP, I'd make that deal ASAP.

 

If somebody would give up a talented hitting prospect for Santos, I'd make that deal as well. Unfortunately, I don't see anybody GM offering that, given that Santos has only been pitching for about a year and a half now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

 

Thankfully, GMs are going to be interested in Thornton, Putz, and possibly Jenks as well. We have the opportunity to load up on some minor-league talent this summer.

 

[southsider2k5]

The Sox are finding new ways to lose. Last night it was a very rare implosion by Matt Thornton...although scratching out only 2 runs on a Kotsay (!) HR didn't help.

 

Call it, ring the bell, throw in the towel. Make some trades and get us excited about the future.

 

I think that is three straight appearances with a run given up by Matt.

[Texsox]

RIP

[Vote4Pedro]

stick a fork in em.....it's definately OVA

[soxfan-kwman]

The Sox are finding new ways to lose. Last night it was a very rare implosion by Matt Thornton...although scratching out only 2 runs on a Kotsay (!) HR didn't help.

 

Call it, ring the bell, throw in the towel. Make some trades and get us excited about the future.

 

 

Thorton is like Roy Hobbs in the beginning of The Natural," losing is a disease". Eventually it got 2 him. Joking, but it does feel that way. It Thortons case, he isn't perfect & I'm not worried about it.

 

I am worried & sick of Alexei not doing anything. Last night he cut off a ball thrown by Rios while the runner was tagging up( & moving to third.) He jumped up high & from angle it looked like a perfect throw & Rios had the guy. After the play, Ramirez looked around at all three infielders & none of them looked up. Bottom line he cannot make a play unless its a possible web gem!

 

Edited June 9, 2010 by soxfan-kwman

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

We won't make the playoffs for another 10 years, time to clean house now and work on building the farm back up because there is nothing there. Goodbye Ozzie, Goodbye Kenny, Goodbye overpriced-under performing veterans and Goodbye young guys that the organization has completely ruined already.

[kitekrazy]

No. Kenny is the one who made this garbage roster. His job isn't to get the players Ozzie wants, its to get the BEST 25 players that he can to fill out the roster.

 

If you are going to blame Ozzie, you need to have equal blame on KW as well.. Ozzie isn't the GM, if KW didn't think this roster could get it done he could have done something about it.

 

Glad to see someone gets it.

 

I don't understand the Thome love at all. This was a guy who would get injured being a DH. Did they win anything at all with him? No. This team would be just as bad with him. Thome created a hole in CF and look what Kenny had to pay to fill that.

 

Dye? MLB isn't interested in him.

 

Last year's team would be just as bad because the current ace of the staff is a washed up pitcher named Freddie.

[Balta1701]

I don't understand the Thome love at all. This was a guy who would get injured being a DH. Did they win anything at all with him? No.

The 2008 AL Central doesn't count?

[shipps]

WHAT THE HELL WOULD MAKE ME FEEL BETTER AT THIS POINT?

 

THERE IS NO POST THAT I CAN MAKE TO BE AT PEACE WITH THIS SEASON.

[Knackattack]

We haven't had a drunken optimism thread yet, so I think there is still hope for this team.

[justBLAZE]

WHAT THE HELL WOULD MAKE ME FEEL BETTER AT THIS POINT?

 

THERE IS NO POST THAT I CAN MAKE TO BE AT PEACE WITH THIS SEASON.

 

Sweep of the Cubs would make me feel pretty good.

[ThunderBolt]

We haven't had a drunken optimism thread yet, so I think there is still hope for this team.

We're still 9 games back and the Twins are playing the Royals again tonight. We can beat the Tigers as much as we want, they're not the team we have to worry about.

[Knackattack]

We're still 9 games back and the Twins are playing the Royals again tonight. We can beat the Tigers as much as we want, they're not the team we have to worry about.

I didn't say we had a good chance. But it's not impossible for the Twins to just start f***ing up a little bit and the Sox to pick it up, if they close it to ~5 by the deadline, it'd be conceivable to come back.

[whitesoxfan99]

The 2008 AL Central doesn't count?

 

Not to mention that the 2006 team won 90 games and would have been in the playoffs easily if Contreras didn't hurt his back, Buehrle wasn't a below average starting pitcher, and the pitching staff as a whole didn't tank after 2005. Thome was a stud his first two years for the Sox and then still a well above average hitter for his last two. He has also been very good for the Twins this year. What's not to like? A lot of people on this board love Pods who in his best year can't put up an OBP as high as Thome in his worst year, yet people hate on Thome all the time.

Edited June 10, 2010 by whitesoxfan99

[iamshack]

Glad to see someone gets it.

 

I don't understand the Thome love at all. This was a guy who would get injured being a DH. Did they win anything at all with him? No. This team would be just as bad with him. Thome created a hole in CF and look what Kenny had to pay to fill that.

 

Dye? MLB isn't interested in him.

 

Last year's team would be just as bad because the current ace of the staff is a washed up pitcher named Freddie.

Oh, this is just the post of the century.

 

But good to see you have the pulse on things enough to where you can accurately ascertain who "get's it," and who doesn't.

[Jordan4life_2007]

No. Kenny is the one who made this garbage roster. His job isn't to get the players Ozzie wants, its to get the BEST 25 players that he can to fill out the roster.

 

If you are going to blame Ozzie, you need to have equal blame on KW as well.. Ozzie isn't the GM, if KW didn't think this roster could get it done he could have done something about it.

 

Now tell us who Kenny should've traded for or signed in place of Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Beckham, CQ, A.J., and Ramirez and you'd have a decent argument.

[caulfield12]

We won't make the playoffs for another 10 years, time to clean house now and work on building the farm back up because there is nothing there. Goodbye Ozzie, Goodbye Kenny, Goodbye overpriced-under performing veterans and Goodbye young guys that the organization has completely ruined already.

 

 

This is just impossible to ever know in the AL Central.

 

Look at the ebbs and flows back and forth between the Twins, Indians, Tigers and White Sox over the last decade.

 

I'm sure we could find many posts even more bleak than yours in the heart of the 2007 season, and that was when the major reason for hope was not giving up all of our veterans (Buehrle, Dye, Contreras, etc.) and Jerry Owens/Josh Fields/Ehren Wasserman/Andy Gonzalez.

 

Our current situation isn't nearly as bleak unless Peavy, Floyd and Buehrle never recover again. Then you can pretty much say we're out of contention for 3-5 years. It's hard enough to cover for Quentin and Beckham, but we need that starting pitching to recover or we're toast, not only in 2010 but 2011-2012.

 

We have some pieces at the minor league level in Viciedo, Flowers, Hudson, Danks and Mitchell that have a lot more talent than those 2007 rookies. You can now add Sale to the talent pool, as well.

 

We broke through in 2008 largely because of Danks/Floyd/Quentin/Ramirez. Is it going to be possible to deal Konerko, Putz, AJ, Jenks, Kotsay, Vizquel, Garcia, Andruw Jones, Nix, Castro, etc., and get back players equivalent to those 4? Probably not.

 

But we can get at least 1-3 players who are close to major league ready, we can inject some youth into the line-up and get bouncebacks from the starters and some of the hitters, we'll at least be an 84-86 win team in 2012.

 

Trading Floyd, Peavy, Buehrle, Quentin and Beckham (this season) just won't happen while KW is GM.

 

Trading Rios, Danks or Ramirez probably won't either, although the temptation to max out a return on the controversial Rios deal and prove to the baseball world how right one of his gambles was might be a bit tempting, KW also knows he needs to keep at least some of those pieces together to build around.

 

 

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

We won't make the playoffs for another 10 years, time to clean house now and work on building the farm back up because there is nothing there. Goodbye Ozzie, Goodbye Kenny, Goodbye overpriced-under performing veterans and Goodbye young guys that the organization has completely ruined already.

I’m pretty down on this team too, but I wouldn’t even rule us out for making the playoffs next year.

[chw42]

Well, maybe this team will all play tricks on us and sweep all the NL teams they face.

Edited June 11, 2010 by chw42

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm not saying it is probable or likely.

I'm saying that we aren't that far gone and that it is possible that we turn it around.

 

Did I say we're playing good baseball?

Nope.

 

Do I think this team is capable of playing good baseball?

Yes.

 

Will they?

Probably not -- but it is possible.

 

Go back to pouting guys - I'll continue to be myself and hope for the best.

Suck it up guys.

 

Cheers

You're the man Hiatus. Since most of us agreed that the starting staff was supposed to be the strength of the team and it hasn't been by a long shot, then it should follow that they can all turn it around and be what we thought they would be.

[ThunderBolt]

You're the man Hiatus. Since most of us agreed that the starting staff was supposed to be the strength of the team and it hasn't been by a long shot, then it should follow that they can all turn it around and be what we thought they would be.

It doesn’t work like that. Just because you’re expected not to suck, and then suck, doesn’t necessitate some kind of miraculous reversal of fortune the same year. There’s a decent chance that these guys will pitch better, but likely not at all enough to make any meaningful headway while being 8.5 games behind a superior team.

[Milkman delivers]

You're the man Hiatus. Since most of us agreed that the starting staff was supposed to be the strength of the team and it hasn't been by a long shot, then it should follow that they can all turn it around and be what we thought they would be.

 

Someone didn't read far enough into the thread.

[T R U]

Now tell us who Kenny should've traded for or signed in place of Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Beckham, CQ, A.J., and Ramirez and you'd have a decent argument.

 

How should I know, im not a GM

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Kenny is the one who constructs the team..

[iamshack]

How should I know, im not a GM

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Kenny is the one who constructs the team..

I simply don't understand why people have to place the blame on someone who was making some pretty safe and fair assumptions coming into the season.

 

At some point, the players have to perform. Yes, Kenny is responsible for constructing a successful roster. And yes, if he were to put blind faith in guys that had a history of being terrible, then I can understand the ire. But when an entire group of players perform this far below their career norms or reasonable projected career trajectories, it becomes impossible to plan for that contingency.

 

 

[johnnymick]

We won't make the playoffs for another 10 years, time to clean house now and work on building the farm back up because there is nothing there. Goodbye Ozzie, Goodbye Kenny, Goodbye overpriced-under performing veterans and Goodbye young guys that the organization has completely ruined already.

 

It took us 3 years to get to the playoffs again after the White Flag trade and 8 to win a World series. Impossible to tell what's going on that far into the future.