WTF are we waiting for ? Call up Viciedo !

[lord chas]

Juan must go!

[greg775]

Greg, you run away too much when people make legit arguments against your statements. Seriously, Steve called you out in the gamethread and I was not shocked at all to see that you never replied to it. Once someone makes a legit reason for why you're wrong you just run to another thread and post the exact same thing.

 

 

Not to mention both of those guys actually have legitimate skills when they're right. Therefore you can foresee some upside. Juan had one baseball skill prior to this year. Speed. And that's all but gone.

 

1.) I'll go back up there and try to see what Steve said and respond.

2.) See, Fathom, this is what I mean. These are the kind of statements I read about Rios/Dunn. For the record, I never wanted Juan. I hate the slappy hitters with no pop and guys with weak arms.

For KW to not bring up Viciedo is a crime, especially with our team still going nowhere at this time. They obviously are not going to DFA Pierre and that means not bringing up Dayan because they obviously think they owe it to Pierre to play him. They don't want Dayan to sit n rot.

[Pale Sox]

If anything, Rios' immense talent makes me like him less. Someone like Pierre would kill for that kind of natural talent. Rios annoys me infinitely more than Pierre because he represents wasted talent, which pisses me off.

 

But the reality is that Rios DOES own that talent and upside, and unlike Pierre, he can play CF. Pierre is a one and a half tool player that no longer has one and a half tools. He's just about as useless as a player can get. I don't dislike him, but he's doing nothing but hurting this team. He NEEDS to go. He's the worst player on the team, and he's getting more at bats and playing time than anybody.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If anything, Rios' immense talent makes me like him less. Someone like Pierre would kill for that kind of natural talent. Rios annoys me infinitely more than Pierre because he represents wasted talent, which pisses me off.

 

But the reality is that Rios DOES own that talent and upside, and unlike Pierre, he can play CF. Pierre is a one and a half tool player that no longer has one and a half tools. He's just about as useless as a player can get. I don't dislike him, but he's doing nothing but hurting this team. He NEEDS to go. He's the worst player on the team, and he's getting more at bats and playing time than anybody.

I agree totally. He's had a decent career and made vasts amounts of money and won't be here next year. Why is he playing so much and leading off on top of that ?

[Pale Sox]

I agree totally. He's had a decent career and made vasts amounts of money and won't be here next year. Why is he playing so much and leading off on top of that ?

I respect him, I honestly do, but he's gotta go.

 

That he's made as much as he had out of so little talent is a testament to his dedication.....but there comes a time, ya know?

[qwerty]

You get points for the bolded. The rest of this post is an F-.

 

Same grade could go for the misspelling of non sequitur.

[caulfield12]

Greg, sometimes I don't understand why you think it's your role to defend Ozzie or Bobby Jenks or Juan Pierre.

 

Is everyone disappointed in Beckham and Rios and Dunn and Peavy?

 

Of course, but realistically, we know we're pretty much stuck with all of those guys for the duration of their contracts.

 

As someone else mentioned, players like Rios with all the talent in the world but none of the courage/fearlessness/drive/heart drive me nuts.

 

If you put Juan Pierre's "head" in Rios, you'd have a superstar. Unfortunately, we're stuck with Juan's drive in a body that's been beaten up and abused for too many seasons....you could probably say the same thing about AJ. Maybe we'll see glimpses of the former player, but not on an extended basis.

 

So because of his caught stealings, lack of arm, atrocious defense THIS year, lack of walks, lack of power, lack of ability to sacrifice bunt....what tool of the five does he still possess? Unless he's hitting at .300 or above, he's not bringing anything to the table. In his best incarnation at this point of his career, he's still in the bottom quartile of AL LFer's in terms of production. And then there are those frustrated he's getting so many AB's, that Ozzie keeps defending him (he's THE reason, basically, that Viciedo isn't up), that Lillibridge hasn't been given more opportunities when he's clearly outplaying Juan at 1/50th the salary.

 

Add all these things up....Juan Pierre will be okay as a man, as a person, no matter how this year turns out. He's one of the good guys in baseball, hardest workers....it's almost because he represents everything that is good, that's standing in the way of his being benched or waived. If he was pouting like Swisher or isolating himself from the media and teammates like O-Cabrera, this wouldn't be so painful for everyone watching the soap opera from a distance.

 

 

[Pale Sox]

Greg, sometimes I don't understand why you think it's your role to defend Ozzie or Bobby Jenks or Juan Pierre.

 

Is everyone disappointed in Beckham and Rios and Dunn and Peavy?

 

Of course, but realistically, we know we're pretty much stuck with all of those guys for the duration of their contracts.

 

As someone else mentioned, players like Rios with all the talent in the world but none of the courage/fearlessness/drive/heart drive me nuts.

 

If you put Juan Pierre's "head" in Rios, you'd have a superstar. Unfortunately, we're stuck with Juan's drive in a body that's been beaten up and abused for too many seasons....you could probably say the same thing about AJ. Maybe we'll see glimpses of the former player, but not on an extended basis.

 

So because of his caught stealings, lack of arm, atrocious defense THIS year, lack of walks, lack of power, lack of ability to sacrifice bunt....what tool of the five does he still possess? Unless he's hitting at .300 or above, he's not bringing anything to the table. In his best incarnation at this point of his career, he's still in the bottom quartile of AL LFer's in terms of production. And then there are those frustrated he's getting so many AB's, that Ozzie keeps defending him (he's THE reason, basically, that Viciedo isn't up), that Lillibridge hasn't been given more opportunities when he's clearly outplaying Juan at 1/50th the salary.

 

Add all these things up....Juan Pierre will be okay as a man, as a person, no matter how this year turns out. He's one of the good guys in baseball, hardest workers....it's almost because he represents everything that is good, that's standing in the way of his being benched or waived. If he was pouting like Swisher or isolating himself from the media and teammates like O-Cabrera, this wouldn't be so painful for everyone watching the soap opera from a distance.

I emphatically agree with all of this.

[knightni]

Honestly, Rios should be flirting with .300 30/100/30 every year but he just muddles along and picks up scraps in the 6 and 7 holes.

[Milkman delivers]

If anything, Rios' immense talent makes me like him less. Someone like Pierre would kill for that kind of natural talent. Rios annoys me infinitely more than Pierre because he represents wasted talent, which pisses me off.

 

But the reality is that Rios DOES own that talent and upside, and unlike Pierre, he can play CF. Pierre is a one and a half tool player that no longer has one and a half tools. He's just about as useless as a player can get. I don't dislike him, but he's doing nothing but hurting this team. He NEEDS to go. He's the worst player on the team, and he's getting more at bats and playing time than anybody.

 

The lunacy of that boggles the mind. For the life of me, I can't understand how this isn't constantly talked about by local sports writers. It's just so unfathomably stupid. It's crazy to think that everyone knows it, but nobody is saying anything.

[Princess Dye]

Lot of pressure being put on DV here. Hope people are stopping to take a breath and realize that.

 

He could easily come in and struggle, and provide questionable defense in LF. There no guarantees against any of this.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Lot of pressure being put on DV here. Hope people are stopping to take a breath and realize that.

 

He could easily come in and struggle, and provide questionable defense in LF. There no guarantees against any of this.

 

Guarantees if he comes up:

 

1) He'll be more of a threat to instantly put a run(s) on the board

2) Pitchers will have some sort of fear

3) It will be more enjoyable to watch him play

4) Less pickoffs at 1B

5) Less bunts

6) More awesomeness

[fathom]

Don't forget going from the worst arm in baseball to supposedly a plus-plus arm

[Jordan4life_2007]

If Viciedo struggles initially, s***, so be it. He more than held his own, though the BB/K ratio was an atrocity, in his brief cup of coffee at the big league level last year. There's nowhere to go but up. You can't possibly be worse than Juan Pierre. He's been by every statistical measure, standard and advanced, one of the worst players in baseball. Viciedo would have to put up a slashline of .000/.000/.000/.000 with a UZR of -53.5 to be worse than Juan Pierre.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Jordan4life

[caulfield12]

Not to mention there's SOME semblance of hope for the future with Dayan up. Pierre has ZERO future in this organization. I'd almost rather see KWJR leading off for the White Sox than Pierre...!!!

 

If he's stowed away in AAA or traded, what the heck do we have to look forward to offensively the next 3-5 years?

 

The next Matt LaPorta that we'll inevitably acquire for John Danks in trade?

[ILMOU]

Greg, sometimes I don't understand why you think it's your role to defend Ozzie or Bobby Jenks or Juan Pierre.

 

Is everyone disappointed in Beckham and Rios and Dunn and Peavy?

 

Of course, but realistically, we know we're pretty much stuck with all of those guys for the duration of their contracts.

 

As someone else mentioned, players like Rios with all the talent in the world but none of the courage/fearlessness/drive/heart drive me nuts.

 

If you put Juan Pierre's "head" in Rios, you'd have a superstar. Unfortunately, we're stuck with Juan's drive in a body that's been beaten up and abused for too many seasons....you could probably say the same thing about AJ. Maybe we'll see glimpses of the former player, but not on an extended basis.

 

So because of his caught stealings, lack of arm, atrocious defense THIS year, lack of walks, lack of power, lack of ability to sacrifice bunt....what tool of the five does he still possess? Unless he's hitting at .300 or above, he's not bringing anything to the table. In his best incarnation at this point of his career, he's still in the bottom quartile of AL LFer's in terms of production. And then there are those frustrated he's getting so many AB's, that Ozzie keeps defending him (he's THE reason, basically, that Viciedo isn't up), that Lillibridge hasn't been given more opportunities when he's clearly outplaying Juan at 1/50th the salary.

 

Add all these things up....Juan Pierre will be okay as a man, as a person, no matter how this year turns out. He's one of the good guys in baseball, hardest workers....it's almost because he represents everything that is good, that's standing in the way of his being benched or waived. If he was pouting like Swisher or isolating himself from the media and teammates like O-Cabrera, this wouldn't be so painful for everyone watching the soap opera from a distance.

 

Great post, 'field.

[dyuen]

If Viciedo struggles initially, s***, so be it. He more than held his own, though the BB/K ratio was an atrocity, in his brief cup of coffee at the big league level last year. There's nowhere to go but up. You can't possibly be worse than Juan Pierre. He's been by every statistical measure, standard and advanced, one of the worst players in baseball. Viciedo would have to put up a slashline of .000/.000/.000/.000 with a UZR of -53.5 to be worse than Juan Pierre.

I would like to see what a guy like that would look like out there.

[caulfield12]

I would like to see what a guy like that would look like out there.

 

Andy Gonzalez?

[gatnom]

I would like to see what a guy like that would look like out there.

 

 

 

[fathom]

You're right Ozzie, our offense is fine.

[caulfield12]

The only good thing to say is that it's easier to find hitting than good starting pitching.

 

The problem is that we have to replace Buehrle, Danks and Jackson somehow. God help Sale and Peavy.

[kapzk]

The only good thing to say is that it's easier to find hitting than good starting pitching.

 

The problem is that we have to replace Buehrle, Danks and Jackson somehow. God help Sale and Peavy.

 

I dont see how we need to replace Danks, and Buerhle. Buerhle has expressed that he wants to stay in Chicago and they way he has pitched this yr he certainly is deserving off a contract with Sox. I don't see Danks getting dealt he is still a good pitcher. I can see the team not signing Jackson however.

[Balta1701]

The only good thing to say is that it's easier to find hitting than good starting pitching.

 

The problem is that we have to replace Buehrle, Danks and Jackson somehow. God help Sale and Peavy.

Humber Helps, and we haven't lost Danks yet...so it's still plausible that if he is gotten rid of, the return could involve pitching.

[southsider2k5]

Humber Helps, and we haven't lost Danks yet...so it's still plausible that if he is gotten rid of, the return could involve pitching.

 

If we hold a real fire sale, he should be one of the first to go. He has by far the highest value to a team like the Yankees right now.

[chetkincaid]

As someone else mentioned, players like Rios with all the talent in the world but none of the courage/fearlessness/drive/heart drive me nuts.

 

What proof do you have that Rios DOESN'T have courage/fearlessness/drive/heart?? Do you know him personally? Have you played with him? Since he's been a White Sox, have you been with him during workouts or practice? Do you know how hard he works or doesn't work?