greg775 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (scs787 @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 04:40 AM) He got a straight up no tag from the guy whose job is to tell him whether or not to challenge. It's a damn good reason to not challenge, but ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGillis Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (venom4789 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 11:35 PM) Jumping in late on the conversation since i worked all day, but what did robin say on why he didnt challenge it, couldnt he see alexi saying he tagged him. I maybe mistaken but we lose nothing by challenging that play right. He said the ump didn't give him a "maybe" as to whether he could have missed it so he turned around and schlumphed back to the dugout ... before he came out of the dugout a second time at which time it was too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Fundamentally, this team has looked pretty poor. I usually never worry about pitching this early in the season but I do worry about all the baserunning blunders and subpar defense and lack of plate discipline by our hitters. To me, this poor play reflects on the manager. I could care less if he screams or not, this team lacks discipline and that is all on Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 10:37 PM) Fundamentally, this team has looked pretty poor. I usually never worry about pitching this early in the season but I do worry about all the baserunning blunders and subpar defense and lack of plate discipline by our hitters. To me, this poor play reflects on the manager. I could care less if he screams or not, this team lacks discipline and that is all on Robin. I've got 3 more weeks of patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatadatz Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Hiring Ventura was a giant pacifier to the fan base. And it worked for awhile. But pacifiers ALWAYS get spit out eventually.....once it's discovered to be a fake teet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 In reality, Ventura was "safe" because he insulated management from criticism and bought them some time. It actually worked for 4 1/2 or 5 months in 2012, but I'm convinced (like Balta is about Brian Anderson vs. Mackowiak in 2006) that Dick Allen, the former player, or the poster, could have essentially accomplished the same thing by virtue of not being Ozzie and giving the franchise a reboot and a breath of fresh air. The problem is that he's simply not a good enough manager when the White Sox face superior or equal talent that he can close the gap enough...it seems the opposite has become true, he's one of the main (perceived) reasons that a seemingly talented team has been lacking direction/fire/motivation for going on 3 seasons now if you include the crash of 2012 and the beginning of 2015/last two weeks of spring training malaise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 06:17 AM) In reality, Ventura was "safe" because he insulated management from criticism and bought them some time. It actually worked for 4 1/2 or 5 months in 2012, but I'm convinced (like Balta is about Brian Anderson vs. Mackowiak in 2006) that Dick Allen, the former player, or the poster, could have essentially accomplished the same thing by virtue of not being Ozzie and giving the franchise a reboot and a breath of fresh air. The problem is that he's simply not a good enough manager when the White Sox face superior or equal talent that he can close the gap enough...it seems the opposite has become true, he's one of the main (perceived) reasons that a seemingly talented team has been lacking direction/fire/motivation for going on 3 seasons now if you include the crash of 2012 and the beginning of 2015/last two weeks of spring training malaise. Yeah, I am pretty sure a real manager has this team 9-0. While many say not challenging yesterday despite what the video guys tell you cost the Sox the game, the 1 run on 4 hits seems to have been ignored. I am sure that is his fault too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 05:03 AM) Yeah, I am pretty sure a real manager has this team 9-0. While many say not challenging yesterday despite what the video guys tell you cost the Sox the game, the 1 run on 4 hits seems to have been ignored. I am sure that is his fault too. Everyone is well aware that if it reached extra innings it could have gone either way. Problem is they never got that opportunity and if Alexei is questioning the decision you can be sure he isn't the only one . There's no defending Robin here and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 06:03 AM) Yeah, I am pretty sure a real manager has this team 9-0. While many say not challenging yesterday despite what the video guys tell you cost the Sox the game, the 1 run on 4 hits seems to have been ignored. I am sure that is his fault too. Not the point/deflecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/4/18/8448...after-challenge SSS's Jim Margalus takes Ventura to task on this one...impossible to argue with his take, I guess with one notable exception. Even CHRIS FREAKING RONGEY blamed O'Nora, Ramirez, RV and the video replay guys as all being part of the chain of unfortunate events. Pointed out that Ventura has ONLY had open disagreements with Alex Rios and Chris Sale (3 times) in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) I know everyone is frustrated with the team and after yesterdays debacle with not challenging everyone is trying to find a scapegoat with robin. If the team was playing well everyone would think the manager is a genius but because the team isn't playing well everyone wants to blame robin. The fact is the team isn't good right now. Robin does deserve some of the blame but it goes from the coaching staff straight down to the players. Shouldn't Vince Coleman deserve blamed for the base running blunders that he was supposed to come in and make the team better on the base paths. Shouldn't Todd Steverson and Harold Baines be blamed for the team not hitting the way they are suppose to. Shouldn't Don Cooper be blamed for the starting rotation not being better then they have been so far. Shouldn't the infield and outfield instructors be blamed for the team having bad defense sofar. Aren't the player more to be blamed when they are the ones on the field everyday playing these games and not playing up to their potential. There is some younger players on the team but there are alot of veteran players that have better track records and aren't producing what they are capable of. The sox have alot of quality talent but its not won on paper but won on the field and they aren't doing that. Clearly everything hasn't come together yet. Hopefully it does soon so we forget the bad and getting back to rooting for a team we all want to win and gives us hope. Edited April 18, 2015 by WhiteSoxLifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 10:20 AM) I know everyone is frustrated with the team and after yesterdays debacle with not challenging everyone is trying to find a scapegoat with robin. If the team was playing well everyone would think the manager is a genius but because the team isn't playing well everyone wants to blame robin. The fact is the team isn't good right now. Robin does deserve some of the blame but it goes from the coaching staff straight down to the players. Shouldn't Vince Coleman deserve blamed for the base running blunders that he was supposed to come in and make the team better on the base paths. Shouldn't Todd Steverson and Harold Baines be blamed for the team not hitting the way they are suppose to. Shouldn't Don Cooper be blamed for the starting rotation not being better then they have been so far. Shouldn't the infield and outfield instructors be blamed for the team having bad defense sofar. Aren't the player more to be blamed when they are the ones on the field everyday playing these games and not playing up to their potential. There is some younger players on the team but there are alot of veteran players that have better track records and aren't producing what they are capable of. The sox have alot of quality talent but its not won on paper but won on the field and they aren't doing that. Clearly everything hasn't come together yet. Hopefully it does soon so we forget the bad and getting back to rooting for a team we all want to win and gives us hope. This is Robin's ship, ostensibly. If the team isn't prepared, is leading the universe in TOOTBLANs, has an incompetent review team etc., - it's in his scope of responsibility to get it right. Yesterday was just another in a long-line of gaffes we've been observing for three years. How many years of OJT will the man need? We're supposed to be competing now. Our clownshoes Mgr. is unlikely up to the task. And yes, a clearout of ALL the coaching staff dead weight will be preferable. Urgency and hunger for winning seems like such foreign concepts to the current staff. We needed to get out of the gate well, and we didn't. Still time to turn it around. Edited April 18, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 So again its robins fault that the offense has 6 players hitting below 200. His fault that the 2014 AL ROY and 4th place finish in MVP is hitting .206. His fault that the 2 of the sox better starting pitchers are getting hit around. So having a incompetent review team is robins fault. I'm pretty sure he doesn't hire the review guys. Thats the work off either the tv group like comcast of the upper command from the white sox that puts the review guys in place. The long line of gaffes we've been viewing isnt just the 3 plus years that robin has been here but before him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Yes, I blame it all on Buddy Bell! "The buck stops here." Truman meant it. Obama did too, but it was already too late. So it remains to be seen if the same thing holds true for magically fixing everything that ails the Sox before things get too far out of hand in 2015. We didnt see Robin taking any responsibility for fixing major internal problem that cost a game yesterday...great managers would never blame the replay guys for a failure of their own gut/instinct/intuition. Its called deflecting blame or not holding yourself responsible. Edited April 18, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 10:41 AM) So again its robins fault that the offense has 6 players hitting below 200. His fault that the 2014 AL ROY and 4th place finish in MVP is hitting .206. His fault that the 2 of the sox better starting pitchers are getting hit around. So having a incompetent review team is robins fault. I'm pretty sure he doesn't hire the review guys. Thats the work off either the tv group like comcast of the upper command from the white sox that puts the review guys in place. The long line of gaffes we've been viewing isnt just the 3 plus years that robin has been here but before him. Im about 100% sure Comcast nor Bob Grim have anything to do with an internal video replay review team or group. Thats baseball ops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 11:47 AM) Im about 100% sure Comcast nor Bob Grim have anything to do with an internal video replay review team or group. Thats baseball ops. Well the feeds they where getting for replay are from the chicago feeds through csn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Any chance ventura gets fired if they get swept in detroit? That would pretty brutal especially when you specifically line up your top 3 starters for the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) Any chance ventura gets fired if they get swept in detroit? That would pretty brutal especially when you specifically line up your top 3 starters for the series. No. Robin will coach out this season unless he resigns. They're not going to make a public spectacle of firing a guy the franchise likes early in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 11:00 AM) Any chance ventura gets fired if they get swept in detroit? That would pretty brutal especially when you specifically line up your top 3 starters for the series. No, none. The last thing this org is is reactionary. And that's good. But any accountability, urgency or preparedness sure would be refreshing. Haven't seen it since 2012. I'm convinced that RV, in aggregate, will cost us between 2-4 games over the course of a 162. And that will be a killer with the miniscule margins we see between making and missing the playoffs in a typical season. We have to be significantly better than Det, KC and Cle for this to work, and if we play sharp, focused ball, we're roughly equivalent talent-wise, imo. Our 1-3 hitters will get it together, sooner rather than later. Ausmus was smart in getting the PR out there quickly to avert a possible late challenge. Just one of a thousand details that I'd bet our guy wouldn't be on top of. These add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) This just keeps getting more irritating. The Sox keep making it look like it was a really complex play. When it doubt in that situation, challenge it! http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/ventur...e-all-missed-it Edited April 18, 2015 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) This just keeps getting more irritating. The Sox keep making it look like it was a really complex play. When it doubt in that situation, challenge it! http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/ventur...e-all-missed-it No confidence they learned anything to prevent the same thing from happening again in the future. Bad luck as an excuse doesnt cut it for increasingly frustrated fans of this franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 11:41 AM) No confidence they learned anything to prevent the same thing from happening again in the future. Bad luck as an excuse doesnt cut it for increasingly frustrated fans of this franchise. And this is the key. Year 4 looks just like year 2 from my seat. There are always going to be new screw-up possibilities that this staff will have to get through, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 So I watched my recording of the game yesterday, and I must admit, CSN's cameras really did not show it very well. Their cameras suck compared to the ones that the Tigers were using. In the DET feed, you can easily see the tag as the video slows down clearly. CSN's video was blurry. So I'm guessing that the Sox guys who felt he was never tagged must have been getting that from the CSN feed. Even Hawk and Stoney said he missed the tag because they are watching the CSN feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Still no excuse to not challenge for the hell of it though. Nothing to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGillis Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) Any chance ventura gets fired if they get swept in detroit? That would pretty brutal especially when you specifically line up your top 3 starters for the series. If he was coaching a European soccer team, it would happen. Since it's the Sox, don't take away his reserved parking space for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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