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For 20+ years, Pitt and KC were laughing stocks...

Keeping Eloy (and Kopech) in the minors until May 2019 is missing the forest for the trees. When a player is ready, he should begin getting tested in the majors. Both because he's earned it, and it is best for the team long-term. The White Sox will be better in 2019 and 2020 if these guys begin orienting themselves in 2018. (And believe it or not, with Eloy, Kopech, Rodon, Burdi and a significant free agent or two, the Sox will more seriously and credibly attempt to compete in '19.) I understand keeping a player down for a few weeks to gain an extra year, and even avoiding Super Two status when it's possible. But leaving these guys in the minors for an entire calendar year is the move more likely to backfire — not bringing them up to begin getting their footing and acclimating with the future teammates and the big league environment it is artificial. Both players will be ready this year. It would be artificial and damaging to deny that.

No one is saying Jordan had no help. But people saying Lebron has done so much with no help is not put context into the situation. This is the first time in over 10 years where Lebron made the finals without a stacked team. He did it against a pacers team who might not have been a playoff team in the west, and a depleted Celtics team. If we want to say Lebron, for the the time in over 10 years, beat the East without much help, let's put more context in there. In terms of getting the most out of the team, I think what James Harden did with the Rockets was more impressive, for example.

The Chicago White Sox have not lost a single game since their closed door, players only meeting in May.

There are way too many good reasons to take a hitter, given our position in this rebuild. And since we're all but guaranteed that one of Bohm or Madrigal is available at 4, choosing Singer will be extremely disappointing.

Goodness, you can be such the broken record sometimes, with your gratuitous fan bashing and your nonsensical insistence that the CHICAGO White Sox are a middle market team. As it relates to the latter, Steve Stone would probably direct your stubborn attention to ye olde “sweetheart lease deal”, whereby if you were so inclined to focus on its contents, you’d realize this team is guaranteed “major market” revenue streams through very generous subsidies each and every year, whether there are 30,000 fans in the park each night or 964. So you can choose to keep your head in the sand on this subject and keep presenting this erroneous point of view, or take the lead of the very knowledgeable Steve Stone and recognize the obvious, which is the FACT that the White Sox are clearly a “major market” team.

Rabbit - here's where I stand on this. I think that religion and faith are deeply personal (raised Catholic, currently agnostic). While I don't hold to an organized religion, I don't begrudge people their personal faith... so long as that personal faith does not intrude upon the public sphere. Conservatives in statehouses across the country (and in Congress) are attempting to legislate via faith. Simply put, there is no religious lobby or atheistic lobby that has nearly the same level of impact on legislation in this country as Evangelical Christians have. I also believe that diversity is important! Cultural and racial diversity is important - my experiences with law enforcement, obtaining housing, attending school - are very different than an African-American woman (for example). People govern from their own experience. When overwhelming majorities of the government are white and male, there is an important perspective that is missing. I'll also argue that socioeconomic diversity is also important. It wasn't until I was out of high school, and exposed to people from different socioeconomic backgrounds than my own that I started to even scratch the surface of some of the things I took for granted that keep people in poverty. To get to equality, the people that pull the levers in society need to be able to understand the different experiences and problems of people across cultural, racial, and economic divides. We aren't even close to there yet...

Don’t let Jack Parkman see this, I wouldn’t want to ruin his completely logical argument for why Dunning is doomed.

I mean seriously. He won with 2 HOF players in Miami. He also won with Kyrie and Kevin Love (who was a top 10 NBA player until he got with LeBron) in Cleveland.

He has 3 rings. I don't think any of them were won singlehandedly. Getting to the finals without beating one hall of famer is impressive I guess, but let's see how many games they win against a real team.

Hating on a super team, but not the guy who started all this? Lebron would be sitting on 1 ring if it weren't for super teams.

You are added to the club of 2-5 peeps throughout my stint on Soxtalk, who can't take my posts. Bizarre that you feel the need to attack me like an opossum attacks garbage after 2 a.m. You seem to think the only way the White Sox can win is through a complete tear down tank rebuild and it just drives you crazy somebody might disagree. Well I disagree. Everybody says "it didn't work the other way." But nobody can respond to my response. Who the frick's fault is that??? How bout our scouts, our front office peeps, our instructors through the system? Chicago White Sox there is not one way to win, sir. And I can't believe you attacked me like that. All I do is post opinions, just like you. And I'll leave on a happy note. Glad to see Tilson contribute tonight; it's a pleasure to watch Anderson run the bases. That is all. I'm waiting for my apology.

Does one exist and if one does who here is most likely to be one? My vote is greg he constantly talks in the 3rd person like he's trying convince people he's actually a greg.

Not sure what the parameters are involving this discussion but the time period from 1951-1967, the "Golden Age" of White Sox baseball the Sox outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 seasons, sometimes by a wide margin...they also got the lion's share of media coverage in the market and had a radio network of approximately 100 stations throughout the Midwest and down into the South including Jackson, Mississippi, Atlanta (before the Braves came) and most of Florida (because they trained in Sarasota.) Generally until the Tribune Company bought the Cubs in 1981, and used their tremendous marketing and media influence, the team that was winning more usually drew better between the two clubs. After that though because of John McDonough (who grew up a Sox fan by the way) and again because of the power of the Tribune Company (to say nothing of the Sox not being willing to even fight for their own market i.e. "we're Chicago's American League team...) the Cubs have dominated since 1984. I have in my library a story out of The Sporting News in 1993 where Ron Schueler was quoted as saying that the Sox were in first place, the Cubs in last, yet they were still outdrawing them. Part of that dynamic was because the Tribune Company had done a wonderful job selling the "Wrigley Field experience" as well as the Sox not being in the playoffs for 10 years at that time. There is no easy or simple answer to this situation. You have to examine history, understand the dynamics of the two fan bases and look at the outside factors that have played heavily into the situation.

After Spillane 3rd pick

In the way that a beater car just keeps running and doesn't burst into flames, yes

Narvaez seems determined to get his batting average below .100

The White Sox were not “dominated” in this “huge” market in 1981/1982, at the time when the current owners took control of the Sox and Tribune Company took control of the Cubs. The latter quickly learned how to take advantage of the “huge” market in which they played and tapped into its potential almost immediately, while the former did not, and 38 long years later, still have not.

At least Farquhar is available

Except this (attendance dominance) didn’t happen for good until the 1984-1989 abyss for the Sox. We all know the reasons. At least 50% self inflicted.

Boys, this game is ovah!

Nice to see Danny out there

I'm not sure how much you know about Chicago, but uh -- it was still that way BEFORE the Cubs got good. You know, when it was 100+ years since they won a World Series? When they were on the longest, most famously pathetic championship drought in sports history? They still outdrew the White Sox, and they very much enjoyed a larger media market. They still do, and it's got absolutely nothing to do with winning.

If we have a “middle sized fan base”, it’s because in 57 of the 58 years since the World Series appearance in ‘59 (outside of 2005), this fan base has witnessed all of FOUR postseason victories. FOUR postseason victories over a 57 year period. Contrast that with the FOUR postseason wins the Cubs fan base got to enjoy in less than a two week period last October, and then get back to me with what a horrible fan base we have that you love to bash all the time.

Santiago warmed up right handed first. Now he switched to left handed. Perhaps they should remind him earlier that he pitches lefty.

I am drawing from the same set of “facts” as is Steve Stone, who happens to be very close to the owner, so your tired bitterness argument doesn’t hold water.

But those are not for franchise value...

It's the depth behind those guys that make the difference. Carlos Rodon, Tim Anderson, Yoan Moncada, Yolmer Sanchez, Matt Davidson, Daniel Palka, Lucas Giolito, Carson Fulmer, Jordan Stephens, Thyago Vieira, Zack Burdi, Zack Collins, Seby Zavala, Dane Dunning, Alec Hansen, Ian Clarkin, Jordan Guerrero, Spencer Adams, Ian Hamilton, Ryan Burr, Jose Ruiz, Dylan Cease, Jimmy Lambert, Bernardo Flores, Blake Rutherford, Luis Alexander Basabe, Micker Adolfo, Luis Robert, Jake Burger, Gavin Sheets, Ti'Quan Forbes, Yeyson Yrizarri, Matt Foster, Luis Gonzalez, Laz Rivera, Tate Blackman, Blake Battenfield, Lincoln Henzman, Kade McClure, some of the players who will be drafted June 4-6, and some of the players who will be drafted in 2019 are the depth behind the three guys you mentioned that will determine whether this rebuild will work or fail. The Sox didn't have anything close to that level of depth behind Sale, Q, and Eaton, which is why it didn't work.

If this rebuild fails, if too many players flame out, welcome to the 20 year rebuild, folks.

Even if you want to be a badass, 16-37 suggests this season is over. No use spending resources now for a few more wins (including IMO Eloy and Kopech control) that can be spent later when the team has a fighting chance to actually do something. I do agree the rebuild is far from a sure thing. Kopech could be as good as Sale. Lopez could be as good as Q. Eloy could put up a 6.0 WAR season like Eaton in 2016. That’s a lot of coulds. Even if it happens, they are back to where they started. They couldn’t build a winner with those 3 signed cheaply, I see no reason to think when the time comes to put up or shut up, the White Sox have the correct people in place to take them over the top, let alone keep them there.

My opinion of Soxtalk as a fan: Wait til next year or better yet, wait til two years from now. Sox fans used to be badasses, never were like Cub fans. They demanded excellence now. The front office was always concerned with its second citizen status in town. They were terrified of fielding horrific teams such as this one. Now thanks to TV contracts, it's all about the future as Brian Anderson said in a post above. That is scary. They better get this one right since we're being forced to wait.

The "prize" for losing 95 games last year was the 4th pick. If they lost 84, all their other picks in the draft would have been available for them to draft. If they do go under slot, it better be for a guy they have in their top 5 or 7 who will sign for less, and they were virtually assured the savings would be well spent on a target they are absolutely sure will be available. . Otherwise, cheering for losses is even more ridiculous.

I think pick 4 comes down to either Madrigal or Singer, but I have some time to kill at work before I leave for the day, so thinking about underslot value at #4. While I like the possibility of Schnell at 46, I think the strategy is a lot less appealing if he is taken at 4. When I think about potential targets for an underslot deal, I broke it down between college and HS. You dont want to drop too far in value (which is why I dont think Schnell at 4 makes sense), so if you're looking at college guys, I would say the realistic targets would be Jonathan India and Travis Swaggerty. From all indications, India probably doesnt get past the Mets at 6 and Swaggerty probably doesnt make it past the Athletics at 9. For quick reference, here are the pool allotments for each position in the draft: https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/royals-tigers-have-largest-bonus-draft-allotments/ If the Sox decided India was the guy they wanted at 4, they could save upwards of 900K if they just matched the Mets slot allotment. If they went Swaggerty (I personally hope they dont), that's a savings of $1.6 million. Obviously neither of those figures are what would realistically happen, but when we think about how those savings could be applied later, it gives the Sox some real flexibility. For instance, if they decided to give India $6 million and pocket $500K to use later, they could offer their third rd pick pretty close to top 50 money. Pulling 3 top 50 players in the top 3 rds would be a pretty big coup for the Sox system. Should the Sox want to go the HS route, this opportunity would be even more present with HSers filling boards quite a bit in the 7-20 range. Hostetler mentioned on, I believe, Red Line Radio a couple weks ago that he was on his way to Washington and Orange County....maybe Cole Winn is the dark horse nobody is talking about? He's been getting glowing reviews all spring.

Yeah, next season. Putting your big boy pants on 1/3 on the way through a 55-107 season seems shortsighted, and very well could cost you a generational talent because you won 3-5 extra games. But fair enough.

Another walk for India. On base 4 times, in 5 plate appearances, with two RBI's.

Whatever he did, hopefully he can sustain it. Also worth pointing out, a guy like this is exactly why there is no rush to get rid of players who don't perform instantly or even in a short period of time. Some dude take years to figure it out.

A few things: -Eloy and Kopech may be pissed that they were kept down longer than they felt they deserved. But this organization owns their right for 6 seasons. If they want to make it big playing baseball, they'll get over it. -Oh like the Cubs with Bryant? That really affected their ability to attract free agents. Money speaks, and money is what gets FAs. -2024 and 2025 should certainly matter, and are very much the backend of what appears to be a strong 5-7 year window for the Sox. As a fan, I am happy to wait for Kopech and Eloy in a season that we're on pace for less than 50 wins if it means we have them for an extra season when we actually are trying to win baseball games and compete for championships. -We more than likely aren't getting the Kyle Tuckers and Gleybor Torres (yes, I know he was an intl FA) without being terrible. I don't think Kopech and Eloy are going to suddenly turn this team into a .500 club, but they will add some wins, and it is very, very important that the Sox add one more elite talent to this group with the 2019 draft. This season is already toast - may as well get the #1 pick out of the deal.

I think this is true, however I also think players aren't dumb. I think they want to go to an organization that treats the players right. We had a reputation when we were competing of bringing up guys like Sale when they were ready to compete. I think when you show players you want to win and do it the right way that it helps. Let's say there was no CBA or time clock, both Kopech and Eloy would be up as they are better options than we currently have. I think that's the point I'm trying to make -- I think you play your best options and try to win every game. If even half the guys that we love in the minors turn out to do the job theyre supposed to then we'll likely be more like the Cubs or Astros or Yanks that has too much talent in the minors and nowhere for them to play in the majors anyways. The difference between 2024 and 2025 to me shouldn't matter. Hopefully we have a Gleyber Torres or Kyle Tucker knocking at the door to take the place of an Eloy. Or a Kopech like guy knocking on the door of Kopech. If we build this correctly we should be in a good position to compete for an extended window.

Far more credible than the words of an ill-informed internet message board administrator, wouldn't you say?

I would never suggest drafting for need, but Beer just doesn’t make much sense for us given where the organization currently stands. We’re flush with OF and potential 1B/DH talent and my guess there will be other prospects in the draft ranked pretty similarly that would provide better depth.

You caught me. I’m clearly Rick Hahn because I can’t tolerate all your whining about losing so many games in the second year of a rebuild.

I’m not sure I follow. We are executing our own rebuild strategy and it’s a little bit different than all those that came before it. Our plan should (hopefully) work for us and allow for a relatively quick turnaround. We were able to execute our strategy because we had multiple high-end assets and that we cashed in at peak value. That is a fairly unique scenario. Comparing our rebuild to the Cubs & Astros or Royals & Pirates doesn’t make a lot of sense other than to acknowledge some losing is required upfront while you wait on prospects to reach the scene & develop. Our timeline isn’t dependent on multiple years of high draft picks and therefore should be accelerated if all goes right.

Steve Stone said on WGN radio just last week that the Sox are a "major market team". Which stands to reason, given that they reside in the major market known as "Chicago".

With how much taxes Americans pay, and with how little we get for them, I'd be all for a slight increase if everyone got health care and education. No more premiums out of my paycheck or co pays. **Waits for someone to say everyone would have to wait a year for surgery if needed which isn't true** It's pretty ridiculous compared to what some European countries get for less taxes.

I would add Anderson to Moncada. Hopefully one or both take a leap forward next year.

But the core was Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Eaton. That's an all-star core, although on the thin side. Why was 78 wins its peak? Seems absurd, really. Has whatever caused that peak been corrected? One obvious cause was the farm. Is the drafting better than it was in 2014?

Has to be kOna on twitter

Keep him down until May of 2019. The sox are worst then I anticipated this year-no doubt. Fulmer and Giolito have been maddeningly disappointing. But a this point the year is shot. Take the pain. I want the first overall pick in 2019 this years suffering. I don’t want to waste service time for any of these guys to feel good. Promote Eloy, Kopech in May of 2019. At that time we may also have Dunning, Collins, and Burdi knocking on the door health permitting. That’s should make any sox fan pretty excited. It’s a year away. You can’t turn back. Take the pain, 52-110 here we come. Add some serviceable veterans on short term deals in the off-season, a real CF, perhaps another SP. This team looks entirely different a year from now.

I just can't imagine how any fan who has been paying attention still cannot see the forest for the trees here. Do you seriously, SERIOUSLY want to do ANYTHING with the prospects that isn't in their best long-term interest? Do you really think we should call our best prospect up simply to "mitigate the suffering"? Guys I want to fucking WIN A WORLD SERIES. You may not not like that we're rebuilding, but we are, and at this point there's no reason not to do it fully and correctly. Eloy moves up when it's the right time for his development, period. If you gotta do something else with your summer this year, then do it. Stop being soft. Let's fucking DO THIS.