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This might be the first time I've ever heard someone claim that a player is on cruise control after signing an arbitration deal.

To beat the deadest of dead horses....nothing changes until Jerry goes. It's Groundhog Day until then.

This is not a limiting factor and not a reason to delay any a Robert trade. They could put Southpaw in centerfield and it wouldn't impact the trajectory of this team. Make the moves to make the team better in the future. The present is not a concern.

Some of it is random, but more and more I have become convinced that a decent amount of it is putting the right resources into the right things. There is a reason that gaps exist, and that they don't seem to change much year to year. Randomness would mean each team should cycle through good and bad times, and not see some stuck at the top, and others at the bottom. If things were getting better internally here, after a year and a half we should be seeing something.

Pretty tough to call at guy with a 4.2 fWAR per 162 games play an "all time under-achiever". Obviously staying on the field has been a challenge, and Robert has not reached his potential, but he's still a very productive big leaguer when he plays. He's frustrating as hell because he is so talented and the 24-25 have not been good, but this is guy just entering his prime years. He's far from an all time under achiever.

I think it is a combination out of several factors: -his plate discipline isn't as good as it looked in college. He had huge walk rates in college but if you are that dangerous you will get walked a lot unless you swing at absolute everything ala javy baez -he does have solid raw power but not huge all fields pop. To hit homers he needs to pull the ball at good angles. He doesn't pull the ball enough in the air and he isn't really willing to learn here and embrace modern data. Eno sarris once asked him about pulling more fly balls and vaughn basically told him he doesn't care about that nerd stuff. -sox rushed him and didn't provide good player dev and vaughn also isn't willing to seek outside help like driveline However this year there actually seems to be some kind of good change. His pull rate is well up to 48% and his pulled fb or ld percentage is up from 14 to 20% this season compared to last. A xwoba and barrel rate is also way up. K rate is also up to be fair but in the long run it should be worth the trade off. The results have been terrible (7 wrc+) but it also was like a 100 babip. If he can maintain a 14% barrel rate it should easily be a career best. A good org would encourage him to keep doing what he does and that results will eventually come if he keeps doing it but it is the sox and I would fear that coaches tell him "your production is bad, try to hit line drives at the second basemans knees and stop that pull sh*t":)

If Hawk announcing he would've said about Vargas routine flyout to left field, " He just missed it", and actually he did. He was all over the pitch but the difference between a good hitter and a bad hitter is that good hitters get hits on mistake pitches a lot more often. He one of those guys where his process is pretty good but the results between his brain and swing don't add up to quality squaring up or barreling the ball. It's like he's always either late or the swing is just .50 inch off from where it should be to get some good exit velo. It's like a good combination of eyesight with pitch recognition. Some hitter try to pick up the way its coming out of a pitchers hand since each has a different grip . That's why pitchers hide the ball as long as they can so the hitter might focus on the release point. But you only have a fraction of a second to recognize things and react or not react. There's very few hitters that just react as they see the ball. A lot of times you really have to guess whats coming and think like a pitcher depending on count, with your swing tendencies vs his pitch sequencing and whats working for him that day which can change inning by inning. It's easy to understand why some hitters just swing out of the zone so much. It looks like its coming right down the middle 1/4 or more of the way towards the plate then the sucker breaks down or down and away from you or in on you and at various speeds. To square it up you have to pinpoint speed, pitch type and location and swing and hit the ball not too soon and not too late but just right and there's still a bunch of fielders out there to take hits away from you even if you do all that stuff right.

It’s absurd and it’s clear that people like NBB just spit the messaging that Jerry wants made public. The simple reality is Jerry is the boss until a deal is finalized between the Ishbia’s and Reinsdorf’s or he dies. In either case, it’s wild to assume that will be 5+ years.

Cause the White Sox with a capable owner would print money.

I guess I look at and see a lot of data points for good and I see a lot of the bad ones too. A lot of them are just minor things that will be forgotten about in time as nothing burgers but molehills made into mountains now. I think the difference is I do not profess to know very much. I repeat what I see and hear and give links to those things. My opinions weren't formed because of one horrible season or even 3 in a row. They were formed because Reinsdorf has been the owner so long and I've witnessed every year of his ownership. The reality is Getz was not the best hire in the world because it was JR doing the hiring. JR hired LaRussa. JR let the teams infrastructure disintegrate or just didn't believe in development of youth and keeping up with the latest tech and modern thinking. I see a lot of small things going right. I can see some immediate results with defense and defensive positioning. That may be a McKinven influence. It's all early he was just hired along with the new hitting guy from the O's. The new manager is way better at least optically than old manager. Bannister is an amazing guy and one of the sharpest pitching minds out there. They've come a long way since Don Cooper. New guy handling international and building a new complex in the Dominican. Hitters get to see what the new Trajekt pitching machine is all about because it can simulate very accurately how an upcoming pitcher pitches while using softer balls so hitters aren't injuring themselves with foul balls off their legs hitting against that machine. There's been a lot going on that we forget about because it's not staring us in the face every day like players are. And let's face it. Every guy Getz acquired this off season was from the scrap heap. Rule 5 guys are scrap heap guys. I saw a graphic during the broadcast last game that show some Rule 5 pitchers stats from this year. Sox had the 2 best in Shane Smith and Mike Vasil. I'm not convinced that 9 innings of 0 earned run will hold up over a full season but damn good start. Shane Smith is looking like the real deal. Again small sample, don't want to get carried away. Sucks that a lot of young arms are getting TJ surgery but Bannister said nearly 2 out of every 5 arms now need TJ surgery at some point and he thinks it's unavoidable. The game is focused on power. Power pitchers and power hitters. All these pitching labs try to maximize spin and velocity. That's part of modern day pitching and along with that comes arm injuries. Unfortunately that's a price pitchers pay now for there being so much knowledge out there now that can raise a pitchers developmental floor and ceiling. That's why you see more out of nowhere pitching success stories than you do hitting success stories. A pitcher can just find a new pitch that redefines his whole arsenal like the kick change for Davis Martin or the cutter for Crochet. Shane Smith saw a jump in his velocity also. I can't recall what else Smith's been working on .

Nah, shut up and in get the gratitude line for all of the great things they have done for us Sox fans the last few years. SHUT UP AND BE HAPPY RIGHT NOW!

They lay it on thick. Like Buddy's pizza.

So while who takes credit for Garrett Crochet rages on these pages, the attempt to also simultaneously take absolutely zero credit for this position player record from the same staff is just astounding. You don't only get credit for the good things.

Give me De Paula, one of the IL’d starters, and Outman (or PTBNL if you can instead).

I was on team hold Robert until this summer to increase value. But honestly, I'd happily take De Paula or Freeland + one of Kyle Hurt/River Ryan/Nick Frasso/Maddux Bruns + James Outman right now. Robert is a couple more bad months away from being a salary dump if he doesn't improve. He's a very talented player, and I fully expect him blossom with his next team, but at some point something is better than nothing. Outman does nothing for me in particular, but De Paula or Freeman do, and Dodgers have slew of major league ready or close to MLB ready SP that we could get a 20+ starts to. But I'd happily play Outman in an OF corner over most of our current options.

He is a flawed free swinging hitter with elite power who can play CF. If you can’t connect the dots on why that may still be super valuable, then there is no point in debating this further. And you say he can’t adjust, but coming into today his chase rate was the best of his career, his BB rate was the best of his career, and his K rate was the best since 2022. The only thing holding him back right now is a fucked launch angle, which history suggests will revert back to the norm. But hey, keep lumping him in with Eloy Jimenez because that makes all sort of sense.

Ah yes, and then who moved them all to pay television? Ah yes that private equity guy.

Damaso Marte, Jenks, Alejandro de Aza, Sergio Santos for a couple of years, Matt Thornton Esteban Loiaza then flipped for Contreras Iguchi Pods Dye AJ El Duque Vizcaino (for 2005), you can add Ozuna and Everett as well Freddy Garcia for Floyd and Gio Gonzalez KW has a lot of bad trades, too....surely, but look at the overall record of the team from 2000 through 2012.

This has to come from the White Sox.

No thanks. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

How is this depressing? It's progress. Yes, the Ishbia's first priority is having a spot to park some money. But I doubt that they put up with a dog-and-pony show for too long. And at some point, JR's sons may have "that talk" with their aging father. And as somebody said above, you can print money if you do this right.

I love free CSHN broadcasts. Brings me back to more innocent times when any kid could enjoy the Sox, Bulls and Blackhawks albeit on a b&w CRT. Comcast tried to put a wrench in it.

At this point, you're almost stuck rooting for more national embarrassment or the Office of the Commissioner to step in. Running the 29th highest payroll in baseball out of Chicago? If/when Robert Perez Benintendi are dealt...they will fall below the Marlins for lowest payroll in the sport. That's just crazy. Waiting for the stadium issue to come to a head is going to take forever...and there's just no way the Ishbias would want to be locked into that stadium for another 15-20 years. They're getting close to Anaheim and KC now having the oldest facilities outside of Fenway and Wrigley.

The most obvious outcome is they’ve been promised first rights to buy the team when Jerry sells. However, that’s not going to be for a long time. We are in baseball hell for the rest of this decade.

I’m more concerned about Hagen’s control.

Has Spiegel ever had any sources? Not sure whether to believe him or not.

Pro gaslighting

As I recall Todd Frazier was pretty good.

I like Smith, but Caglianone is looking really good

League average offense is bad for a first baseman for sure. He's also not a good defender there (and a disaster in LF), so he should probably be a DH, where his offense profiles even worse. He'd need to be about .100 OPS points higher over his career average to be worth playing.

Drafting a first baseman that high was always questionable, but industry consensus was that Vaughn was absolutely going to hit in the majors. You're not wrong, though - you pay your scouts and draft team to avoid super costly issues like these. Missing on a top 5 overall pick is an enormous failure, especially when some pretty good players were taken after him.

If the rumors are true about Vaughn not being receptive to advanced data and not wanting to change his approach, then there's no hope for him and I put little blame on Sox player development for his failures. He's probably the biggest disappointment out of the rebuild for me, because at least Moncada and Eloy showed some promise before injuries crushed that. Vaughn has been a sustained wet fart since he came up.

That story's a lot less detailed. And then COVID happened a month later.

You yourself said there's only 2 left so seems to me there's a lot more thickness on your side of the fence. Hell there's one of your bunch who is non stop s%*# posting. Maybe you'd prefer the Woe is Us poor White Sox fans pity party to be unanimous so we could all hold hands and sing Kumbaya ?

With the new budget, they can't afford Beggar's anymore.

Beggar’s Pizza, but point taken.

Why so angry that people try to be fair. Good things are happening despite that horrific season . There's more than 2 people who recognize that. Why can't we recognize the good things too ? There's plenty of you around to point out his fault because he has faults and has made mistakes. No ones ever said he's perfect. He got a lot of quality to join the organization and doing their best to modernize. Rome wasn't built in a day. Relax , I see you starting "And That's a White Sox Winner" thread. You aren't all doom and gloom.

And here is the same Chris Getz story from 2020. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1566148/2020/01/28/what-the-white-soxs-next-stage-of-player-development-looks-like/

I seem to remember when we drafted James Beard comments on how weak his competition was with high school baseball in Alabama. That would make me apprehensive on putting much stock in Hall’s numbers.

Get well soon and good luck !

This is a good thing, and we'll see if it lasts into the dog days of August. But it's a smart, sound approach, and one we should all hope continues. Everyone, including Getz, knows they are only going to get so far with the talent currently on the roster (which is not very far at all) but if the same approach is used when there is more talent, hopefully we see the results in the W-L column. The hard part is finding the talent. We'll see if Getz is up to the task.

Yea, credit everybody involved in the WORST SEASON OF ALL TIME! Getz glazers are a wild bunch. Thankfully we only have 2 left.

There's plenty of credit to go around .There's no need to be stingy with credit. The player, the coaches and executives all play a part in good and bad things. Pretty simple stuff actually. Hardly controversial.

9.7, 7.5, 11.2, 16.6, 13.4. Funny thing is he's tried to fix his LA problem but it doesn't really matter as he's just not powerful enough. Looking at his HR/FB% this is a guy that just doesn't have enough raw power to make it work. Other than this year, his expected wOBAs are about in line with his actual. He's a mediocre hitter playing a bad 1B from the wrong side of a platoon. There's just not much there. He'd have to significantly improve his hitting just to become a league average 1B. Not happening.

But enough about Jerry.

Obviously you are trying to take a shot at me, so let’s discuss this further. Do you ever get tired of misrepresenting and outright lying about what other people say? I said numerous times that Canario could easily bust, but that I would still like to see what he could do on this terrible team (which is now 2-8), just because it is more worth it for a terrible team to play youth over old worthless vets. See my posts below for evidence. Funny that a poster who said last year that he would be fine with Corey Julks being a platoon corner outfield starter for this 2025 Sox team is now running his mouth about other potentially bad acquisitions. Also, if Canario is a bust after 13 at bats or so with the Pirates, what does that make your favorite GM’s amazing acquisition Miguel Vargas after he has had many more at bats with the Sox?

Because the current pile of washed out veteran has beens and never will bes, are doing TONS better!

Can’t imagine doing victory laps about someone being bad when the current roster is hitting below .200 as a team.

And I’d still rather play him that Taylor, Slater, and Jankowski haha