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One guy has already reached the big leagues as a #10 pick and the other two had bad injuries. Burdi was a reach as a reliever sure.. Your guys expectations for the 14th pick in the draft are absurd. Anything after 5 is a complete crap shoot. Madrigal has the best k-bb rate in minor league baseball by 2 times! He is two times better than the next best. That's unreal. Hes also been a gold glove caliber 2nd baseman. Ripping hostetler for drafting madrigal is a laughably bad take.

I’m going to bid $1000 to talk with Rick Hahn. If I like his answers I’ll put down another $1000. It’s not the most guaranteed money, but I think it’s the best offer.

Looking at his career stats, I’m worried about how his lack of walks will translate to the majors

The rebuild doesn't mask the fact the fans have been watching nothing but losing baseball for 6.5 years in a row now, and have only seen one playoff win and four playoff games in total in the 13.5 years since the World Series. The "b****ing" is a culmination of all of this long term losing and non-competitiveness, not just impatience with a rebuild that in and of itself guarantees nothing in the future, what with the current owner and FO still in place.

Except we really don't. So much has changed that we have kind of hit a confluence of factors that makes the situation untenable. Due to the swing change revolution, more balls are being hit in the air as opposed to on the ground. That makes it more dangerous. Due to the juice ball and reduced drag, balls are being hit harder than ever and keeping that speed for a longer time. That makes it more dangerous. Teams are eliminating foul ground and putting seats closer to the field so fans can be closer and so teams can fit more seats in. That makes it more dangerous. So basically there are more balls hit harder in the air than ever before all while fans are closer to the field than before. So no, its not really the same as 100 years ago.

That's simply not based in reality and just pure insanity. You do know the average WAR of a first round pick, right?

When that happens they get promoted to asst GM.

They paper promoted him?!?!? This organization truly is a clown college.

that was my first thought as well. he gets a pay raise and a new title and one of those little offices the Japanese have for folks that serve no purpose in the org anymore but everybody needs to save face.

Their issues are much more on the development side in my opinion

Yes they are. Jack it is amazing how you read something on fangraphs and completely misrepresent what it says. Did they change the point like 12 years in a row? No To say pitchers don't throw harder today than 20 years ago is incredibly wrong Let's see. Bullpens have gotten vastly better and bullpen velocity is absurdly higher. The amount of 100 mph pitches went from like 50 a year to 1000+. This trend grew and grew year over year. Do you see how that chart showed a steady rise?

You contracted yourself in the same post.

Sox love going after guys that kill their team but not many others around the league.

You know this how? Did Daddy tell you about to good old days of no strikeouts and slappy hitters. I am sure it has a lot to do with the fact that they werent seeing Nolan Ryan's velocity more than once a month and seeing guys throwing 98 to 100 from the 6th inning on.

I bet Yolmer had such an amazing celebration planned. I can't wait to hear about what his favorite vacation was tomorrow during the broadcast and have Stone/Benetti act like he's the funniest person on the planet.

Can I get an alert when there's actually something important added to this story? Thanks

I absolutely get that, but why are we giving those guys at bats? No reason Collins isn't getting at bats at DH and Mendick playing 2nd base. This lineup looks like a first year rebuilding team, not one that is hoping the window is open the next year.

Jack, less strike outs has nothing to do with a lower OBP. OBP on strike outs is 0.0000 OBP on non strike outs is higher than 0.00000. That's why striking out less can not hurt your OBP. That is mathz.

We have reached peak insanity. Like I mentioned earlier, it's like you insisting that Kyle Hendricks sucks against every stat in the world.

So where do you get he has to be ichiro to take that high? Those are absolutely absurd expectations.

I saw Nick Hostetler lighting Cuban cigars with 100 dollar bills. Now he is getting paid millions to do nothing!!!!

You act like people can’t be excited about the young talent but be frustrated that the front office will blow it when it comes time to spend money to assist the youth. And discussing past failures? Last offseason was a pretty recent event. And after all the big talk the Sox front office was quick to dish out to the fans as Balta stated, they failed miserably and made themselves look stupid. So this upcoming offseason, why should fans expect a different outcome? They will likely whiff on the top targets, like Cole and Ozuna, as usual and we will wind up with some second tier guys.

This is why I don't want Abreu resigned. Ricky will continue to bat him 3rd (and play 1B) when there will be better options in house down the line.

You can’t group the two?!? So because they were “trying to win” yet failed miserably, you can’t hold that against them? It isn’t like they were signing top free agents to compete either. The free agent strategy has not changed. This is where the doubt is in my opinion. If the next offseason is more of the same, people will be even more pissed after missing out on Machado last offseason. Fans have every right to doubt management. The Sox last playoff appearance was 2008 and they have had two winning seasons since then. That is pathetic. And management hasn’t really changed either so it’s the same regime — Kenny and Hahn.

They promoted him to get him the hell out of the scouting department. They're too chicken shit to get him out of the building because they're more worried about public perception than they are about getting it right. It's a joke.

God knows they need some kind of help in pro scouting unless you think guys like Keppinger, Dunn, LaRoche, Shark, Alonso, Nova, Santana and so on were "hits." 😂

This is what I am baffled about. Why does a losing team lash out at fans? And this is nothing new for the Sox. Fan alienation is something the team has excelled at. The rebuild looks okay, but somehow I get the feeling the team would be happy if it took longer for team to win. It's cheaper that way. I know one thing. I don't feel like watching with Stone in the booth. Please tell me what this organization is trying to do with this nonsense.

Complaining about the Madrigal pick, seeing how well he has played, is possibly the worst take I have seen in a long time.

Hopefully KW and Nick are fairly evenly matched in ping pong and FIFA because they are going to have a lot of time to pass in the "special assistant" office complex.

Dude you are arguing a point that nobody disagrees with. Everyone understands the value difference between 30 IP of Chapman vs 6 years of Torres. Everybody on planet Earth understands that. Everyone. They had an opportunity to end a 108 yr drought in a down year. They pulled out all the stops. They got it done. Maybe both sides won the trade

The area where the Sox are severely lacking is in the LatAm signing process. I think Robert is the first one to reach AAA in the last years and he doesn‘t really count.

I hope Hostetler is getting whacked. He sucks. Collins, Burdi and Burger were all huge misses. I don't like taking players that are limited in some facet of the game with top 5 picks. Madrigal and Vaughn both fit this category. They both can still be good players, but I feel like that is a waste of a top 5 pick. Those guys are players you take at the back of the top 10.

It's not just the cheapness. The entire offseason was dripping with disrespect to the fanbase. They could have spent the whole offseason commenting like Renteria and saying they were happy to just have a seat at the table, instead you had Rick Hahn cutting people off at Soxfest and saying "we're going to be adding a middle of the order bat". The org was screaming and leaking top to bottom "We are going to get this done" so that fans would go buy tickets. They did all that while knowing they weren;t serious, even after Boras had told them they weren't being serious. And then, just like Stone here, when anyone dared call them on it, you had KW yelling at the fans about "how do you expect us to do this and keep our next core together". Well a**hole i don't know, you're the franchise who said you were going to add a middle of the order bat, you tell me.

This. Nice post. Nobody in their right mind trusts Jerry, Kenny and Rick to pull off signing the players they need in order to win. JR seems content running the Sox as a small market outfit. If you're going to do that, take the damn money you were going to spend in FA and pour it into player development, scouting and analytics. And for god sakes don't ever let a player with value walk for free unless you think they have a damn good shot at the WS. Start doing A's and Rays things. If they were at the very least showing progress on that front, I could live with being cheap at the MLB level. But when you're cheap in every aspect of your organization, at that point it gets beyond frustrating and enters the infuriating stage. Don't channel the ghost of Bill Wirtz. If you're going to be cheap at the MLB level, you must be churning out 4+ T100 prospects annually, with times where you have 7+. Where are the Sox T100 guys going to come from when Kopech, Robert and Madrigal graduate in 2020?

Exactly. It is NOT just this year or the past three years, it is the awful free agent signings, the bad trades, the poor draft picks, the injury situation and remember even when the Sox were "trying to win" they found ways to screw it all up. This franchise has been one of the worst in baseball since 2007 that's going on 13 years now when this season ends...man that's a long time to be a joke isn't it? (Save for the three winning seasons which weren't even in consecutive seasons...) And personally I think after all that,Sox ownership / front office should thank God there are still fans around who still care about the daily happenings instead of just saying, "the hell with you, a pox on your house..." At least Sox fans don't appear to be apathetic (yet...)

Perhaps because the majority of fans now no longer trust ownership and the front office to get it done after the Machado fiasco? They actually see improvement and realize with JR, Kenny and Hahn pulling the strings there is a decent chance they screw it up and it gets flushed right down the toilet. That worries them. I suspect like with myself,they supported the rebuild, it was needed, it was the only possible way out but the ownership was asking the same people who jazzed it all up to fix it. Now throw in last off season and reality is beginning to hit home and it worries them. Just a possible reason.

It's really not worth discussing anymore, he ain't coming up. It is what it is.

1st of all you don’t like Abreu. That is a so obvious from this entire thread. Really. You’d rather give Reed a shot, REED? so you’d send an all-star off for somebody’s low level prospects. This entire thread is total BS. I also want to be prepared for 2021, but I want to prepare for next week and next month. I want to prepare for tonight’s game. I say it over and over: I like it when the Sox win. Sox wins make me happy and Sox loses make me pissy. But when I read stuff like this on here, I think I am a minority. You guys would rather watch some low A level prospect improve his batting average from .247 to .253 than see the Sox have a winning home stand. I don’t begin to understand what motivates a thread like this. It’s easier for me to believe this thread was started by an Indian’s or Royal’s fan trying to undermine the Sox than a real White Sox fan. That this thread shows up the night after Abreu had an RBI double and a 2-run homer shows you have no sense of timing or Abreu’s value. One good thing is that I just read MLB.com’s list of top 20 trade rumors and, thankfully, No White Sox were mentioned, not Abreu or Colome. Thank goodness the Sox front office seems to like winning more than whatever alternative the guys agreeing with this thread seem to enjoy.

I've posted this before, but I'll iterate it again... Jose's protection for his time in Chicago. Adam Dunn Conor Gillaspie Melky Cabrera Adam Laroche Matt Davidson Daniel Palka Avasail Garcia Todd Frazier Yonder Alonso Throw him in that Boston lineup and he'll be a monster. Throw him in a great lineup, and he'll be a monster. Today he had the best hitter on the team behind him, and look how he produced. Don't sleep on his bat in a great lineup. Boston would absolutely love someone like Abreu to plug in at first/DH

3-10 since the break. Six of the losses to absolutely garbage teams in Kansas City and Miami. Just a total embarrassment.

Because even though there's no guarantee it will work, it's such a powerful technique that it's at least possible it could work even if the people running it aren't that skilled. And the counterpoint - signing moderate priced free agents - leaves the team rebuilding in a couple years anyway after a few more low-70s win years.

Madrigal has no power and Vaughn has no positional versatility. Madrigal has to be Ichiro to justify picking him where they did. Vaughn has to hit .300 with 35 HR every year to justify picking him where they did.

Cool. They could have acquired another closer for less? Or offered less? People act like Chapman was unhittable or that the Cubs couldnt have given up someone else. It's just wrong. The cubs gave up a guy every bit as good as Tatis and they got like 30 innings from a closer in return. It was an awful trade.

I think it is a little difficult to comprehend. This is the first year in a long time that there is actual hope on the horizon, Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, giolito as well as the group in the minors, robert, madrigal. Yet many of the sox fans seem to be getting worse in their criticism and comments. The rhetoric out the now should be decreasing and incrasing. I for one am baffled as well. For once there is hope but certain fans seem to want to stomp harder.

Or Marlins fans. They arguably had equally valuable or even more valuable trade chips in Ozuna, Stanton, Yelich and Realmuto (Gordon to a lesser extent) and the returns for these players look absolutely awful. Not to mention that their last draft picks don't look too hot either.

The idea that you can expect someone like Wheeler "to get straightened out" while providing him a premium contract (similar to Eeovaldi) is pretty nutty...as most of us already have our doubts about Don Cooper adjusting to the modern game. Far likelier, second tier guys like Bumgarner or Odorizzi will end up with much more palatable 3 year contracts. The line probably gets drawn at no more than 4 years, which definitely means no Gerrit Cole. The likelier Sox path is finding two of those second tier guys to combine with the existing roster. In the meantime, you have to believe in your own prospects fulfilling their destiny and at least one of the three becoming a true, TOR stud. IMO, there is a LOT to be said for simultaneously going after underperforming guys like Aaron Sanchez (like Rodon, Boras is his agent and team control is through just 2020), Jonathan Gray, Foltynewitz, Freeland...as the bigger names are out of our current price range due to the fact that we'd be asked to give up more than we're willing to or can afford to give up.

Harvin Mendoza 2-3 with BB. Season walk rate is 11.6% wOBA of .416 and wRC+ of 146. He's in his age 20 season and has hit in every season (2 in DSL, now 2 in AZL). Challenge this kid.

The guy is paid a lot of money to play baseball. It's not like he's been driving jerry reinsdorf around in a limo all day, kissing his feet, shining his shoes, cutting his steak for him, etc. It's also not like he's been selling hotdogs in the stands. Don't feel too sorry for him. The only reason Jose is still here is because Hahn never was offered a haul for him. If that had happened, he'd have been gone a long time ago. He's been a good player and a great leader on a shitty team. Now he should go win elsewhere. I like Abreu a lot, but I want to see him traded. I want the Sox to give ABs to someone else who they can make a decision on. I want the Sox to get prepared for 2021. Get started now. Can Collins actually develop an approach? I'm impressed with the speed of his bat and how long he can see the ball, but he has no approach at all. Something has to give there. Even giving AJ Reed a shot, that's fine also. It's also fine to put Eloy there a bit, give Yermin Mercedes a shot, etc. It's fine to use the DH slot to rest people and make some decisions on our 4th OF going forward (i.e. Engel vs. Cordell). There are some ways to use Jose's ABs that at least help the decision making process this year. Then, next year, hopefully we'll have a couple prospects to bat there until Vaughn arrives, but I think Vaughn may be a midseason guy in 2020. Get some more pieces for Abreu, move on, etc.

If I could get Pache + Wright + Anderson for Gio I would drive him to the airport. If I could get Pache + Wright + Anderson + Folty for Gio + Bummer I would drive them both to the airport. ATL's system beats the holy dogshit out of the Sox system and now we all get to see why. Before when there were questions about whose system was better, the answer was always ATL because of the depth. The Sox system was front-loaded due to the big 3 trades. But other than that, the Sox system has been bad. Madrigal, Robert, and Vaughn seem to be the only "jewels" of the Sox farm after Tim Anderson came through. ATL has a bunch of guys who we'd be nuts about if we had them on our side. As far as what is "sustainable", I will say this: 1) Our FO is not going to hand out big money 5+ year contracts to TOR starters. It will not happen. 2) The only way for us to get 5+ year control TOR SPs is to a) trade for them, or b) draft them. In the case of a, we do not have the depth on the farm to make that happen. We do not have enough impact pieces. We actually need all of our pieces, specifically Madrigal, Robert, and Vaugh, to pan out, along with a full recovery from Kopech, and we need Kopech and Cease to pan out, too. We also need Reynaldo to take a big step forward. I think the kind of deal I am advocating, most GMs would not want to make. But AA is the guy who took on like 800 billion dollars and sent 47 players to the Marlins for half their team, and he's the same guy who traded for Donaldson, Tulo, etc. and he traded Noah Syndergaard for RA Dickey for fucks sake. He seems to be just like Dave Dombrowski is, when it comes to wanting to make that really big deal. And as far as what is sustainable in contention, man, I do not know how people can be so optimistic about the Sox ATM. We are offense-heavy, and we really need our few big-time SP pieces to all hit. And then even if that all happens, we do not have the depth to make a few big deals. I do not want to jump into the gun fight a year too early with half a clip of bullets. I'd rather jump in a year later with a whole pile of ammo. If we try to contend too early and lose -- just like we should expect, because we do not have enough pitching -- then we trap our selves in a spot where we can't act. Once you start to "win," you can't stop, backtrack, and do more "rebuilding." I personally do not think we have enough pieces yet, and I don't think the farm is strong on the bottom. I would not be interested in trading players like Sheets at all, and dealing away the few guys who might turn into something. I'd rather keep adding to the picture for at least 1 more season. Then, go into 2021 looking for a deep playoff run. If you traded Gio this year for 2 guys who debuted for you this year, 2021 could still be Kopech and Cease's 2nd full season, and Reynaldo's 4th full season, and then the 2 guys you get would be in their 2nd full season also. That's a winning formula IMO. Also I just think that if AA is willing to put Pache on the table that's a move we need to try to make. An OF of Pache-Robert in CF-RF has the potential to be amazing.