Fire Rick Hahn

[The Beast]

12 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

They lost a good portion of season ticket sales this year primarily because of the team. There is only so much a marketing person/team can do when the on field product is poor. I blame zero of that on Boyer.

That said, there hasn't been much of anything new on the marketing side the past several years. There has been definite angst in areas under his purview including negotiations with the announcers (Stone and Benetti), and also angst regarding Gordon Beckham being groomed as Stone's replacement.

Lip reported issues Farmeo had with the organization beyond Jerry, Hawk came out last month on how he was fired, and I've never heard him say a negative thing publicly ever about White Sox baseball. I'd also like to know Brooks' role in the Guaranteed Rate Stadium Naming fiasco.

Brooks has a lot of media defenders because he is willing to appear on radio / TV shows, and is the one amiable person willing to speak to media and fans who contact him from an otherwise unfriendly insular organization mirroring (and perhaps dictated by) their Chairman.

My main fear is Hahn or Brooks angling / being promoted (see quote from Lip's organization report below) into a Crane Kenney / Howard Pizer / John McDonough type President or Executive VP role. They need a legitimate Dave Dombrowski or Theo Epstein type person of that stature with a well respected and legitimate current / recent (no La Russa 2.0) baseball career to establish / create a legitimate organizational structure including baseball front office, coaching, scouting, analytics and player development staffs from scratch. 

Jerry will not make the required changes for many reasons. This is directed toward the next  ownership group. If it's Michael or Mellody as Chairman/Chairwoman, I am hoping there is no agreement or understanding that Hahn / Boyer will be promoted to the top of the organization chart after JR/KW/Pizer are gone. This organization desperately needs a clean slate. 

 

This is a great post. Thank you for sharing. I would be glad to have a clean slate when this team is sold, assuming Michael Reinsdorf will sell the team.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

12 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

How often are GMs fired/relieved of duty in the middle of a season? Asking for a friend.

It happens.  If the decision has been made they can't let the GM f*** up another draft and trade deadline.  June 1 seems like a good date for a decision like that to be made.

[Tony]

The Sox “window” started in 2020, after a 72-89 2019 season.

As we know, since the start of the 2nd half of 2021, the Sox have been under .500 during that time. 

They’ve now played more baseball under .500 during their “window” than above it. Let that sink in for the “mastermind” that is Rick Hahn. 

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

The Sox “window” started in 2020, after a 72-89 2019 season.

As we know, since the start of the 2nd half of 2021, the Sox have been under .500 during that time. 

They’ve now played more baseball under .500 during their “window” than above it. Let that sink in for the “mastermind” that is Rick Hahn. 

The “window” was open about 150 games. The other sad part is when it was open, they weren’t ready for it, and didn’t have the horses on the mound to have it lead to anything.

[Dick Allen]

23 minutes ago, The Beast said:

This is a great post. Thank you for sharing. I would be glad to have a clean slate when this team is sold, assuming Michael Reinsdorf will sell the team.

So now it’s possible White Sox fans are being tortured by JRs death tax , but if he was interviewed today, he would tell everyone how it’s impossible to make money owning a baseball team, and so,e will buy it.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Dick Allen

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

While Hahn has had bad free agent signings, JR is pulling the budget strings. He did the same thing to KW.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/chicago-white-sox/
 

Kenny had a #25th, 14th, 18th, 22nd and 14th MLB ranked payroll to work with before catching lightening in 2005.

Rick Hahn had two opportunities. 

#11, 23, 15, 16 (2013-2016) before being able to pawn off everything he inherited from Kenny plus Adam Eaton 1.0, Hahn’s “One Shining Moment” , which gave him another several plus years with zero accountability.

#15, #7, #13 are the White Sox 2021-2023 MLB payroll rank. Hahn had the time and financial resources to build a quality roster. Hahn also had a decade to attempt to build a quality player draft and development program beyond what he inherited (Marco Paddy).

Hahn is incapable of building an organization or quality roster construction. He spent most of his money on the bullpen, left fielders and designated hitters during his tenure. These three are the most fungible positions to fill, and his organization can’t even develop these slots, let alone fill the perennial holes at 2B, RF and SP.

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So now it’s possible White Sox fans are being tortured by JRs death tax , but if he was interviewed today, he would tell everyone how it’s impossible to make money owning a baseball team, and so,e will buy it.

Job creators.  Nearly everyone can become a billionaire real estate baron... 

[mmmmmbeeer]

19 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Rick hasn’t been able to augment the core he acquired

This is the primary issue with this team and it's 100% the fault of one Jerry Reinsdorf.

I remember Rick going around multiple media outlets and laying out his plan...basically, we've got this outstanding core and we're going to be able to augment them with meaningful FA signings...."the money will be spent".  

But it wasn't spent on meaningful FA signings.  The entire plan was hamstrung by an owner who refused, and still refuses, to pay big money for long term deals.  Impact players at the top of their games don't settle for short-term contracts.  Short-term contracts are saved for "prove it" deals or guys on the backside of their careers.  This is how we end up with Elvis Andrus, Edwin Encarnacion, or Dallas Braden instead of Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, or Marcus Semien.  

Successful rebuilds with enduring positive results require deft moves in the FA market to augment the young guys and take some pressure off of them.  Rick knew it.  We knew it.  Media knew it.  Jerry knew it.  Sox players knew it.  

And yet here we are, getting press for a minor league signing of Scotty Piscotty.

[mmmmmbeeer]

14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

#15, #7, #13 are the White Sox 2021-2023 MLB payroll rank. Hahn had the time and financial resources to build a quality roster. 

 

Payroll is an incredibly misleading measure to use when evaluating the flexibility a GM was given in any particular season.

Elite talent requires long-term commitment.  Jerry Reinsdorf has never given out long-term deals to players.  Pitchers he won't go over 3 years.  I can't remember a FA position player getting more than a 4-5 year deal.  That lack of commitment doesn't cut it in today's MLB.  

This is why Rick spent so damn much on the bullpen...it's the only position on the diamond where you could possibly attain "elite" talent on short-term deals.  

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

This is the primary issue with this team and it's 100% the fault of one Jerry Reinsdorf.

I remember Rick going around multiple media outlets and laying out his plan...basically, we've got this outstanding core and we're going to be able to augment them with meaningful FA signings...."the money will be spent".  

But it wasn't spent on meaningful FA signings.  The entire plan was hamstrung by an owner who refused, and still refuses, to pay big money for long term deals.  Impact players at the top of their games don't settle for short-term contracts.  Short-term contracts are saved for "prove it" deals or guys on the backside of their careers.  This is how we end up with Elvis Andrus, Edwin Encarnacion, or Dallas Braden instead of Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, or Marcus Semien.  

Successful rebuilds with enduring positive results require deft moves in the FA market to augment the young guys and take some pressure off of them.  Rick knew it.  We knew it.  Media knew it.  Jerry knew it.  Sox players knew it.  

And yet here we are, getting press for a minor league signing of Scotty Piscotty.

That money went to Hendriks Keuchel Lynn and Grandal...now Benintendi.  Spent and then capped out due to abysmal rate of returns across the entire roster these last two years. 

Needed to go to Machado Harper or Wheeler. 

 

Never realistic JR was going into deficit spending year on year like the Padres have done with all their investments. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Payroll is an incredibly misleading measure to use when evaluating the flexibility a GM was given in any particular season.

Elite talent requires long-term commitment.  Jerry Reinsdorf has never given out long-term deals to players.  Pitchers he won't go over 3 years.  I can't remember a FA position player getting more than a 4-5 year deal.  That lack of commitment doesn't cut it in today's MLB.  

This is why Rick spent so damn much on the bullpen...it's the only position on the diamond where you could possibly attain "elite" talent on short-term deals.  

John Danks? 

[ShoeLessRob]

Rick Hahn eats his cereal with water. 

[mmmmmbeeer]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

John Danks? 

Good point. A 5yr deal to a guy coming off an abysmal season.  That’s the only exception, I believe. 

[The Beast]

30 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/chicago-white-sox/
 

Kenny had a #25th, 14th, 18th, 22nd and 14th MLB ranked payroll to work with before catching lightening in 2005.

Rick Hahn had two opportunities. 

#11, 23, 15, 16 (2013-2016) before being able to pawn off everything he inherited from Kenny plus Adam Eaton 1.0, Hahn’s “One Shining Moment” , which gave him another several plus years with zero accountability.

#15, #7, #13 are the White Sox 2021-2023 MLB payroll rank. Hahn had the time and financial resources to build a quality roster. Hahn also had a decade to attempt to build a quality player draft and development program beyond what he inherited (Marco Paddy).

Hahn is incapable of building an organization or quality roster construction. He spent most of his money on the bullpen, left fielders and designated hitters during his tenure. These three are the most fungible positions to fill, and his organization can’t even develop these slots, let alone fill the perennial holes at 2B, RF and SP.

Okay, I don’t disagree. But what else will you do about it then analyze it to death? How will your support of this team change so it hits JR’s pocket book?

[Rounding_Third]

The Scouting and Player Development depts have been historically awful for 10 friggin years!  You can't build a team signing FA's and international contracts.  In ~10 years they haven't had any draft picks who became studs for WSox.  Half that time, they had top 10 picks too.  I guess the closest they came was TA.  Jury still out on AV.  All others were traded away for garbage.  

What's really depressing is that they're going to be bad for a long, long time.

[Tony]

59 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

This is the primary issue with this team and it's 100% the fault of one Jerry Reinsdorf.

I remember Rick going around multiple media outlets and laying out his plan...basically, we've got this outstanding core and we're going to be able to augment them with meaningful FA signings...."the money will be spent".  

But it wasn't spent on meaningful FA signings.  The entire plan was hamstrung by an owner who refused, and still refuses, to pay big money for long term deals.  Impact players at the top of their games don't settle for short-term contracts.  Short-term contracts are saved for "prove it" deals or guys on the backside of their careers.  This is how we end up with Elvis Andrus, Edwin Encarnacion, or Dallas Braden instead of Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, or Marcus Semien.  

Successful rebuilds with enduring positive results require deft moves in the FA market to augment the young guys and take some pressure off of them.  Rick knew it.  We knew it.  Media knew it.  Jerry knew it.  Sox players knew it.  

And yet here we are, getting press for a minor league signing of Scotty Piscotty.

 

54 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Payroll is an incredibly misleading measure to use when evaluating the flexibility a GM was given in any particular season.

Elite talent requires long-term commitment.  Jerry Reinsdorf has never given out long-term deals to players.  Pitchers he won't go over 3 years.  I can't remember a FA position player getting more than a 4-5 year deal.  That lack of commitment doesn't cut it in today's MLB.  

This is why Rick spent so damn much on the bullpen...it's the only position on the diamond where you could possibly attain "elite" talent on short-term deals.  

Bullshit

There is nothing misleading about the Sox having an 180 million dollar payroll this year, and being 7-15, along with all the other stats that have been mentioned.

You act as if Rick Hahn has never met Jerry or has no understanding of how he operates. Yes, he isn’t able to sign a Bryce Harper. That sucks for us and Rick, and Jerry needs to go. We are all on the same page.

But to place all the blame on Jerry, and taking any of the blame off Rick is insane and asinine. We just got swept by the best team in the league, who hold a payroll of 74 million. They have been in the playoffs the last 4 years, and currently have the best record in MLB. 

The decisions Rick have made has directly put the Sox in this position. It’s his job to work within the limitations the owner sets, which quite frankly isn’t near as limiting as teams like the Rays, Brewers, Guardians, etc…who have had a way better track record than the Sox the last decade. 

[South Side Hit Men]

56 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Okay, I don’t disagree. But what else will you do about it then analyze it to death? How will your support of this team change so it hits JR’s pocket book?

I’ve boycotted since the La Russa hire. If enough people boycott, it may actually change, though the guaranteed $100M each team gets for merely existing for National TV and MLB.com creates less and less incentives for owners to give a s%*# about attendance, at least in the short term. Jerry doesn’t have a long term.

1 hour ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Payroll is an incredibly misleading measure to use when evaluating the flexibility a GM was given in any particular season.

Elite talent requires long-term commitment.  Jerry Reinsdorf has never given out long-term deals to players.  Pitchers he won't go over 3 years.  I can't remember a FA position player getting more than a 4-5 year deal.  That lack of commitment doesn't cut it in today's MLB.  

This is why Rick spent so damn much on the bullpen...it's the only position on the diamond where you could possibly attain "elite" talent on short-term deals.  

What are you talking about? My post a response to a post regarding “Jerry’s Budget”. Hahn has had 10 years, he is responsible for the state of the roster.

Organizations which field winning teams consistently obtain a majority of their elite talent by drafting and developing a core roster.

Several have payrolls at or below Sox levels, a few like the 19-3 Rays at the bottom perennially.

Edited April 23, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[South Side Hit Men]

12 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

Bullshit

There is nothing misleading about the Sox having an 180 million dollar payroll this year, and being 7-15, along with all the other stats that have been mentioned.

You act as if Rick Hahn has never met Jerry or has no understanding of how he operates. Yes, he isn’t able to sign a Bryce Harper. That sucks for us and Rick, and Jerry needs to go. We are all on the same page.

But to place all the blame on Jerry, and taking any of the blame off Rick is insane and asinine. We just got swept by the best team in the league, who hold a payroll of 74 million. They have been in the playoffs the last 4 years, and currently have the best record in MLB. 

The decisions Rick have made has directly put the Sox in this position. It’s his job to work within the limitations the owner sets, which quite frankly isn’t near as limiting as teams like the Rays, Brewers, Guardians, etc…who have had a way better track record than the Sox the last decade. 

Kenny Williams was smart and capable enough to work within these perimeters. Before Kenny, Larry Himes built a solid core, and Ron Schueler filled in the rest to create a legitimate WS contender. All three had the same restrictions and ownership.

Hawk and Hahn were the two Sox GMs not capable of the job.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Rick Hahn the kind of guy to print out mapquest directions before the family vacation roadtrip. 

[shago]

Any doubters/supporters left after this awesome start?

[Lip Man 1]

36 minutes ago, shago said:

Any doubters/supporters left after this awesome start?

Worst start since they went 6-16 in 2018. "Window of Contention..." "Multiple Championships" 🤡 

[soxfan49]

35 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Worst start since they went 6-16 in 2018. "Window of Contention..." "Multiple Championships" 🤡 

IMAGINE THAT

[Tnetennba]

Since we all know Hahn isn’t going anywhere, can we at least give him a good old fashioned booting?

[The Beast]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I’ve boycotted since the La Russa hire. If enough people boycott, it may actually change, though the guaranteed $100M each team gets for merely existing for National TV and MLB.com creates less and less incentives for owners to give a s%*# about attendance, at least in the short term. Jerry doesn’t have a long term.

I haven’t boycotted, but I did go to fewer games than I used to over the past few years. I know I went to two last year - my birthday and a game they won in August against the Astros. If they are losing revenue or attendance year over year I would think they would have to either shed payroll or make a change in the FO.

1 hour ago, shago said:

Any doubters/supporters left after this awesome start?

Supporters of Hahn? I mean I’ll give the team more time, but the FO and ownership as a whole is who I’m frustrated with.

[Chicago White Sox]

It’s not even May and Fangraphs has our playoff odds at 11%.  Rick Hahn should be launched to the sun immediately and then we should have the rest of the front office spend the next three months scouting minor league talent, because it’s going be selling season before you know it and we might as well start getting ready for those eventual trades now.