The Manager

[Dan of Steel]

11 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You're right Grifol never got the buy-in and respect from the players. But guess what, that is on Grifol. He came into the initial press conference with some pretty bold statements of how he was going to change the culture and effort on this team. When a guy like Bruce Botchy goes to the Rangers and changes that team's culture, he did it because he is a leader. There was nobody stopping Grifol from taking control of this team and earning that respect. That is what leaders do.

I'm sorry but Grifol failed miserably and firing him does make a big difference for next year. I know this team will suck for several more years, but at least it would be nice to have a manager who could demand respect, effort and work more on baseball fundamentals. If Francona or Botchy or any other great manager had this Sox team over the next few years, the team would still be bad. However at least there would be effort, passion and players playing smarter baseball.

Because Bochy has this important thing called credibility. 

Bochy is a 3 time World Series champion and has actually managed professional baseball within the previous 10 years. 

Grifol spent the last 10 years coaching in one of the few organizations arguably more dysfunctional than the White Sox. 

Bochy knew failure and learned from it and turned the Giants into a consistent winner for much of his time there. 

Grifol has only known failure and it has carried over to this dumpster fire organization. 

It's not his fault at the end of the day. He should've never been the pick, just like TLR shouldn't have been the pick in '21. This franchise can't get out of its own way.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Dan of Steel said:

Grifol spent the last 10 years coaching in one of the few organizations arguably more dysfunctional than the White Sox. 

Grifol has only known failure and it has carried over to this dumpster fire organization. 

I agree with your post, with the exception of these two points.

2015 Royals

2014 Royals

 

 

[Dick Allen]

19 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

Does Pedro do anything good? Are there examples of him optimizing the roster?

In the extremely unlikely chance that there’s a FO change, whoever is in charge will hopefully be allowed to change managers but I understand if they wanted to see Pedro can do in 2024 before finding a new manager in 25

This. For all Pedro fans, I ask, what are his strengths?

[Chimpton]

29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

This. For all Pedro fans, I ask, what are his strengths?

It is difficult to tell. But having said that I think a lot of experienced managers would struggle with this squad and FO.

I think it was very telling that Grifol was the 'best' they could find to manage a squad that was supposedly in its window for challenging for a World Series. Either the FO is just plain incompetent (very likely) or there genuinely weren't any better candidates willing to take on the job (which is very worrying).

[chetkincaid]

On 8/3/2023 at 6:15 AM, Texsox said:

That would be a huge departure from the organization's usual procedures. Ozzie had to quiet quit and Tony had a health issue to be allowed off of this sinking ship. 

Pedro will, like almost every WS manager before him, will work every day of his contract. In 2026 they will announce he isn't being offered a contract extension and some random former player will take his place. 

And that random former player will be AJ Pierzynski, who’s never managed anything. This franchise is so depressing. 

[chetkincaid]

19 hours ago, soxfaninfl said:

If you don’t think a manager makes a difference, I present you the Texas Rangers, losers of 94 games last year. Of course, a FO willing to take risks helps too but the team is basically the same with the exception of injured pitchers.

The Rangers have spent more than $500 million on their infield, have an all star catcher, traded for a very highly rated defensive catcher to back him up, and have an all star outfielder. 
 

The White Sox have never spent $100 million on a player. Apples and oranges. 

[Texsox]

18 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

And that random former player will be AJ Pierzynski, who’s never managed anything. This franchise is so depressing. 

Sandy Alomar has been my hope in the former player turned manager move but AJ seems destined. Or Steve Stone. He's old enough and kisses the chairman's ring. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

This. For all Pedro fans, I ask, what are his strengths?

He talks a big game?  He said all the right things in his opening press conference and then failed to deliver on any of them.  The “we will control the strike zone on both sides of the ball” will go down in history as the biggest over-promise / under-deliver s statement ever.  Dude has no back-bone whatsoever.

[Dick Allen]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He talks a big game?  He said all the right things in his opening press conference and then failed to deliver on any of them.  The “we will control the strike zone on both sides of the ball” will go down in history as the biggest over-promise / under-deliver s statement ever.  Dude has no back-bone whatsoever.

Totally agree. His press conference fired me up. But it was all talk. One of the highest chase rates in baseball. And the staff walk rate is only beat by the minor league Oakland A's.

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Totally agree. His press conference fired me up. But it was all talk. One of the highest chase rates in baseball. And the staff walk rate is only beat by the minor league Oakland A's.

But, Grifol didn’t select the players, didn’t hire Katz, and I’m not sure what role he had with the hitting coaches - aggressively swinging and hitting the ball on the ground has been a pattern for this team across a decade of hitting coaches, which makes me think that approach is what the GM wants to hear when he interviews a coach.

[Timmy U]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But, Grifol didn’t select the players, didn’t hire Katz, and I’m not sure what role he had with the hitting coaches - aggressively swinging and hitting the ball on the ground has been a pattern for this team across a decade of hitting coaches, which makes me think that approach is what the GM wants to hear when he interviews a coach.

Grifol hired the hitting coaches. They are his buddies. Probably shows the limits of hitting coaches' influence on improving swing decisions.

[Dick Allen]

46 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Grifol hired the hitting coaches. They are his buddies. Probably shows the limits of hitting coaches' influence on improving swing decisions.

When the gold standard for the hitting coach was Salvy Perez and  Jorge Soler, it did make me pause. They have had seasons when they have hit a lot of homers, but they are two of the worst OBP in baseball usually.  Looking at it, Soler has had his moments, but he's also been horrible.

I think they should show an outs percentage. It basically is 1000- the OBP, but adjust for DPs and bad baserunning.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

But, Grifol didn’t select the players, didn’t hire Katz, and I’m not sure what role he had with the hitting coaches - aggressively swinging and hitting the ball on the ground has been a pattern for this team across a decade of hitting coaches, which makes me think that approach is what the GM wants to hear when he interviews a coach.

I remember when so many complained about Greg Walker. Called him lift and pull.

[Milkman delivers]

4 hours ago, Chimpton said:

It is difficult to tell. But having said that I think a lot of experienced managers would struggle with this squad and FO.

I think it was very telling that Grifol was the 'best' they could find to manage a squad that was supposedly in its window for challenging for a World Series. Either the FO is just plain incompetent (very likely) or there genuinely weren't any better candidates willing to take on the job (which is very worrying).

It’s likely both. They’re clearly incompetent. That needs no further proof. Better candidates probably weren’t willing to take the job because they saw what we all now see, that the team is going nowhere fast and the front office is not good at their jobs.

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Sandy Alomar has been my hope in the former player turned manager move but AJ seems destined. Or Steve Stone. He's old enough and kisses the chairman's ring. 

A guy who has been demoted from the bench coach position since 2014? Two announcers who have never coached (one of which is in his 70s)?

 

They seem equally likely to get the job. All very White Sox/bad moves.

[The Kids Can Play]

16 hours ago, Dan of Steel said:

Because Bochy has this important thing called credibility. 

Bochy is a 3 time World Series champion and has actually managed professional baseball within the previous 10 years. 

Grifol spent the last 10 years coaching in one of the few organizations arguably more dysfunctional than the White Sox. 

Bochy knew failure and learned from it and turned the Giants into a consistent winner for much of his time there. 

Grifol has only known failure and it has carried over to this dumpster fire organization. 

It's not his fault at the end of the day. He should've never been the pick, just like TLR shouldn't have been the pick in '21. This franchise can't get out of its own way.

I appreciate that Bochy had major credibility, but don't kid yourself, he walked in that Ranger's clubhouse from day one and didn't rely on his reputation and successes. 

I'm sorry but it is absolutely Grifol's fault regardless of if he was given a terrible roster, which of course he was. The issues I have with the way this team plays were things Grifol promised at his original press conference. They were very bold statements about hustle, pride, effort and playing smart baseball which has not happened. His biggest statement at the press conference, which I now laugh at was, "We are going to be a competitive team that controls the hitting and pitching from both sides of the zone!"

Even though this team stinks, if this team had guys hustling, playing with passion, 110% effort and playing smart baseball, then I might say, yes he deserves another shot. If we are going to be bad for the next few years, then at least we should have a manager who will make them play with major heart, effort and smart situational baseball skills. I don't think Grifol's personality is capable of doing that. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[soxfaninfl]

5 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

The Rangers have spent more than $500 million on their infield, have an all star catcher, traded for a very highly rated defensive catcher to back him up, and have an all star outfielder. 
 

The White Sox have never spent $100 million on a player. Apples and oranges. 

But that infield was there last year too. Still lost 94 games. Did they expect to be better? Yes. So, they hired a manager. The Sox just have a bad, over-his-head manager and it affects more than just in-game decisions.

Edited August 4, 2023 by soxfaninfl

[Capn12]

That lineup tonight, speaking of managers................woo whee....

 

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, soxfaninfl said:

But that infield was there last year too. Still lost 94 games. Did they expect to be better? Yes. So, they hired a manager. The Sox just have a bad, over-his-head manager and it affects more than just in-game decisions.

Jung has made a huge difference at third.

A. Garcia improved tremendously.

Lowe has been really solid compared to 2022.

Jankowski has never been given regular playing time for such an extended period....

Durans in Texas and Boston emerged simultaneously after struggling in previous seasons.

Edited August 4, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

That lineup tonight, speaking of managers................woo whee....

 

 

Why are they playing Grandal and Andrus?

[Capn12]

And the guy with the lowest OPS on the team not named Seby, is our DESIGNATED HITTER....

[soxfaninfl]

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Jung has made a huge difference at third.

A. Garcia improved tremendously.

Lowe has been really solid compared to 2022.

Jankowski has never been given regular playing time for such an extended period....

Durans in Texas and Boston emerged simultaneously after struggling in previous seasons.

What I hear is Rangers players improving while Sox players regress. And you don’t think this has anything to do with the FO and their chosen manager?

All I know is the Sox have systematically devalued and de-emphasized the manager position ever since Ozzie left. It shows. Coupled with the Sox FO, this has turned promise into disaster.

[South Side Hit Men]

46 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why are they playing Grandal and Andrus?

Well Rick only has two catcher options. Agree on Elvis.

Is Eloy going back on the Injured list?

He was off beyond pinch hitting yesterday, is off today.

[FloydBannister1983]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:02 AM, Texsox said:

Sandy Alomar has been my hope in the former player turned manager move but AJ seems destined. Or Steve Stone. He's old enough and kisses the chairman's ring. 

I really don’t see AJ being that stupid.

Remember he’s the one on his podcast saying “What the f is going on?”

I don’t think he’d want it.

[pcq]

On 8/4/2023 at 6:41 AM, chetkincaid said:

And that random former player will be AJ Pierzynski, who’s never managed anything. This franchise is so depressing. 

AJ is smart and he would kick ass. Losing would not be accepted. 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

I really don’t see AJ being that stupid.

Remember he’s the one on his podcast saying “What the f is going on?”

I don’t think he’d want it.

I'll agree that it's stupid to manage this team. It's a career killer. But if you love baseball, being "the guy" is tempting. Do you want to talk about playing or actual play? Do you want to talk about managing or do actually manage? 

I don't know if it applies to AJ but with so many guys in every sport jumping from the booth it seems like there is a draw.