Southwest Sider Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 hours ago, ron883 said: Good thing the Sox blew their international load on him that year. I hate their international strategy. Calling it a strategy is being nice about it. Dave Wilder recently interviewed by the Athletic discussed how little resources he was given. Vehicles that barely worked, etc. JR does not value Latin American pipelines and frankly, I have no fucking idea how he luckboxed his way into a Cuban pipeline. It honestly cant be because of any great effort or resources he gave his scouts. Who have the Sox developed since Maggs and C Lee from Latin America who wasnt a "ready to go" Cuban line Alexei and Abreu? I honestly cannot think of anyone. Yolmer maybe? The talk about Colas here is discouraging - maybe he is an asshole but the Sox probably did him no favors. Nor Dayan Viciedo. Nor any poor Latin who ends up in this miserable organization. It's not a strategy, it's a fucking blatant disregard for cultivating a market of passionate baseball players who can help make your organization successful. Another bullshit White Sox way mindset where we are so much smarter than everyone else because we dont spend money. Launch this dumb ass organization into the sun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, 2Deep said: This applies to most of you here Nick Castellanos has produced 0.2 fWAR in 2 seasons for like $30 million. I agree he would be a perfect fit with the white Sox. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I’ve been thinking that the Anderson call is a great test of whether they will do anything different. If Rick Hahn was the GM, what would he do? I think we can all feel this, he’d declare that he thought they were right there and one player away, make a handful of mid level signings, trade for Perez and pay way too much, and hold onto Anderson. Gotta have him in that competitive 2024 roster and Hahn definitely will say he put that together. The odds of this team competing are low, not zero but so low that it’s not worth making moves aimed at being better next year. The odds of Anderson being worth a lot in a trade are very low, he’s not cheap, teams only trade for guys like him if they need an infielder, and he was worthless last year. Some team taking on $5 million of his deal and giving back a middling prospect is an optimistic view, but that’s precisely how things would go with Hahn. Let Anderson go, he probably won’t get $14 million as a free agent, no reason to overpay. Sign Andrus or maybe Rosario if his pride is low, hard to judge his market. Plan for Montgomery to force the issue at some point in the second half, save the money or use it in pitching, and at least show that you understand that “winning soon” takes more than talk. Make hard choices if they’re the correct ones. Do I expect the White Sox to make hard choices? I will believe it when I see it. I guess I'm weighing the Anderson decision on if they think they can compete and if they're going to spend on anything else. If they're not gonna spend on anything and they think they'll suck, you might as well spend on Tim unless you're going to put Lenyn there for a year til Colson is ready. I'm as willing to burn it all down as anyone, but unless he's destroying the clubhouse, I think bringing him back is the option unless it isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 56 minutes ago, wegner said: Boy, I used to be excited that we seemed to have an inside track on Cuban players. Now I feel more like stay away from those guys. Our inability to develop baseball players who arent ready "out of the box" has been exposed. Colas likely lashed out last year because he saw how dogshit it was in our minors. I dont know anything about Colas and his demeanor but I am way less likely to give the Sox the benefit of the doubt than someone like Colas and myriad other young ballplayers who may have craved development in our org. Colas probably found that it was absolutely dog s%*# and then said he needs to be in the Majors around other ML players and coaches to actually improve as a player. Another wasted talent. Hopefully he catches on wherever he goes next. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Southwest Sider said: Our inability to develop baseball players who arent ready "out of the box" has been exposed. Colas likely lashed out last year because he saw how dogshit it was in our minors. I dont know anything about Colas and his demeanor but I am way less likely to give the Sox the benefit of the doubt than someone like Colas and myriad other young ballplayers who may have craved development in our org. Colas probably found that it was absolutely dog s%*# and then said he needs to be in the Majors around other ML players and coaches to actually improve as a player. Another wasted talent. Hopefully he catches on wherever he goes next. They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. I think they rushed Colas due to his age and investment. There's bits of useful baseball player in there, but I fear the Sox already screwed the pooch on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 21 minutes ago, Heads22 said: I guess I'm weighing the Anderson decision on if they think they can compete and if they're going to spend on anything else. If they're not gonna spend on anything and they think they'll suck, you might as well spend on Tim unless you're going to put Lenyn there for a year til Colson is ready. I'm as willing to burn it all down as anyone, but unless he's destroying the clubhouse, I think bringing him back is the option unless it isn't I mean. They will probably spend something, they need to convince themselves they have a competitive roster and they have only about $115 million in the payroll right now. The normal white Sox under Hahn would add $20 million for Perez, two $10 million starters, two $10 million righty relievers, a couple of utility guys and a swingman; and have a $170 million payroll or so. A little down from last year, probably enough to put them projected for 72 wins or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkChopExpress Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Danny Mendick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I mean. They will probably spend something, they need to convince themselves they have a competitive roster and they have only about $114 million in the payroll right now. The normal white Sox under Hahn would add $20 million for Perez, two $10 million starters, two $10 million righty relievers, a couple of utility guys and a swingman; and have a $170 million payroll or so. A little down from last year, probably enough to put them projected for 72 wins or something like that. I guess I think if they're thinking they won't be competitive, Colson will be the guy starting late '24 into '25, and Tim is fine in the clubhouse? Bring him back, whatever you replace him with will be bad and very short term. $14 million for him beats most of the options and doesn't really hamstring you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Heads22 said: I guess I think if they're thinking they won't be competitive, Colson will be the guy starting late '24 into '25, and Tim is fine in the clubhouse? Bring him back, whatever you replace him with will be bad and very short term. $14 million for him beats most of the options and doesn't really hamstring you. But at least to me, it’s classic white sox safe thinking. There’s a remote chance they could get to 82 wins? Go for it! We got in this mess because we didn’t pinch every penny despite the certainty that we would have a spending problem. The 2019 offseason is my favorite example - trading for a closer, signing Herrera, they added like $50 million and traded away players for a 72 win team. That $10 million that is the difference between Anderson and Andrus or that was spent on Herrera - save that and add it to your offer to Wheeler or to the next version of him. This is not White Sox thinking, thats why I’d like to see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: But at least to me, it’s classic white sox safe thinking. There’s a remote chance they could get to 82 wins? Go for it! We got in this mess because we didn’t pinch every penny despite the certainty that we would have a spending problem. The 2019 offseason is my favorite example - trading for a closer, signing Herrera, they added like $50 million and traded away players for a 72 win team. That $10 million that is the difference between Anderson and Andrus or that was spent on Herrera - save that and add it to your offer to Wheeler or to the next version of him. This is not White Sox thinking, thats why I’d like to see it. And that's the internal decision to be seen and what they need to decide. Are they (misguided or not) trying to win? Is this a punt year? How does that 14 million factor in? To me you can't realistically think you're a contender with a rotation of Dylan Cease and 12 children in 4 different trench coats. So you're gonna spend money on something, so it might as well be on Tim to run out 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Heads22 said: And that's the internal decision to be seen and what they need to decide. Are they (misguided or not) trying to win? Is this a punt year? How does that 14 million factor in? To me you can't realistically think you're a contender with a rotation of Dylan Cease and 12 children in 4 different trench coats. So you're gonna spend money on something, so it might as well be on Tim to run out 2024. Every move you make - make with the idea that you’re looking towards the trade deadline. Pitching is often movable at the deadline, be cautious about bullpen money as middling relievers are getting 3 years now, but you have to add a few. Use the money you have to fill out a roster and then try to add talent at the deadline. Otherwise, keep the payroll under control, add guys on 1 year deals who might be tradeable -Rosario is a good example IMO, I can’t imagine him getting the same money as Anderson’s option, but if the market goes crazy then just settle for an Andrus or a DeJong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Every move you make - make with the idea that you’re looking towards the trade deadline. Pitching is often movable at the deadline, be cautious about bullpen money as middling relievers are getting 3 years now, but you have to add a few. Otherwise, keep the payroll under control, add guys on 1 year deals who might be tradeable -Rosario is a good example IMO, I can’t imagine him getting the same money as Anderson’s option, but if the market goes crazy then just settle for an Andrus or a DeJong. I think the amount of time spent worrying about anything in free agency is time wasted with our rotation, like I said earlier. Without at least three more major league starters its not worth even considering worrying about how we are attempting to win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 If Sox don’t think Colas has a future as a position player they should convert him to relief. They already paid for him, they should exhaust his abilities first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 10 hours ago, 2Deep said: This applies to most of you here If you ignore his advanced defensive metrics from this season (entire career TBH) and base your defensive evaluation on a couple plays from October then you may be cooking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 32 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said: If you ignore his advanced defensive metrics from this season (entire career TBH) and base your defensive evaluation on a couple plays from October then you may be cooking. 0.2 combined fWAR his 2 years in Philadelphia for $40 million doesn’t scream the Sox missed one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sleepy Harold said: If you ignore his advanced defensive metrics from this season (entire career TBH) and base your defensive evaluation on a couple plays from October then you may be cooking. I think it’s more that we didn’t sign him and yet, here we are playing slow 1B in the OF the last 3 years. Edited October 21, 2023 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 17 hours ago, fathom said: I like what I've heard out of Barfield. I also liked his words about "grinding" which wasn't the KW/Ozzie-style hacking and lunging grinding, but OBP grinding, which has been the weakest part of the Sox offense throughout most of the century. Tim for RF! He's athletic, should do a good job, and it might help clear his head. Wish they'd given him some OF time last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Tim for RF! That's actually what I was thinking. Cover 2B & SS with Lenyn, Romy and Zach Remillard. Rotate Tim Anderson through, also. It's a rebuild year. Get the #11 pick and call it a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said: If you ignore his advanced defensive metrics from this season (entire career TBH) and base your defensive evaluation on a couple plays from October then you may be cooking. I didn’t particularly want Castellanos because of his D, but the Sox sure chose every cheap internal worse option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 14 hours ago, Southwest Sider said: Calling it a strategy is being nice about it. Dave Wilder recently interviewed by the Athletic discussed how little resources he was given. Vehicles that barely worked, etc. JR does not value Latin American pipelines and frankly, I have no fucking idea how he luckboxed his way into a Cuban pipeline. It honestly cant be because of any great effort or resources he gave his scouts. Who have the Sox developed since Maggs and C Lee from Latin America who wasnt a "ready to go" Cuban line Alexei and Abreu? I honestly cannot think of anyone. Yolmer maybe? The talk about Colas here is discouraging - maybe he is an asshole but the Sox probably did him no favors. Nor Dayan Viciedo. Nor any poor Latin who ends up in this miserable organization. It's not a strategy, it's a fucking blatant disregard for cultivating a market of passionate baseball players who can help make your organization successful. Another bullshit White Sox way mindset where we are so much smarter than everyone else because we dont spend money. Launch this dumb ass organization into the sun. Luis Robert wasn't a finished product, but he would have been tough to mess up for nearly any organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 58 minutes ago, WestEddy said: That's actually what I was thinking. Cover 2B & SS with Lenyn, Romy and Zach Remillard. Rotate Tim Anderson through, also. It's a rebuild year. Get the #11 pick and call it a season. Being the worst team in baseball is more damaging than the value of gaining pick 11 vs. 15-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 13 hours ago, Balta1701 said: But at least to me, it’s classic white sox safe thinking. There’s a remote chance they could get to 82 wins? Go for it! We got in this mess because we didn’t pinch every penny despite the certainty that we would have a spending problem. The 2019 offseason is my favorite example - trading for a closer, signing Herrera, they added like $50 million and traded away players for a 72 win team. That $10 million that is the difference between Anderson and Andrus or that was spent on Herrera - save that and add it to your offer to Wheeler or to the next version of him. This is not White Sox thinking, thats why I’d like to see it. How many millions of dollars does Tim bring into the team just by being Tim Anderson? I feel like this board is disconnected from reality by thinking Tim isn’t a fan favorite and ultimately good for business. I assume he has the top selling jersey on the team, at least it’s the only one I see around town unless it’s a guy who hasn’t been on the team in 15 years. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 14 hours ago, Southwest Sider said: Calling it a strategy is being nice about it. Dave Wilder recently interviewed by the Athletic discussed how little resources he was given. Vehicles that barely worked, etc. JR does not value Latin American pipelines and frankly, I have no fucking idea how he luckboxed his way into a Cuban pipeline. It honestly cant be because of any great effort or resources he gave his scouts. Who have the Sox developed since Maggs and C Lee from Latin America who wasnt a "ready to go" Cuban line Alexei and Abreu? I honestly cannot think of anyone. Yolmer maybe? The talk about Colas here is discouraging - maybe he is an asshole but the Sox probably did him no favors. Nor Dayan Viciedo. Nor any poor Latin who ends up in this miserable organization. It's not a strategy, it's a fucking blatant disregard for cultivating a market of passionate baseball players who can help make your organization successful. Another bullshit White Sox way mindset where we are so much smarter than everyone else because we dont spend money. Launch this dumb ass organization into the sun. Yeah, that’s why Dave Wilder failed. JR sucks no doubt, but Dave Wilder committed felonies and ripped him off. Anything he says is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 18 hours ago, DirtySox said: Yeesh. This has to be a makeup/character Issue right? Even if it a character issue, trading him now makes little sense imo. He has two option years remaining. They don’t have to make a long term decision on him this winter. He does some things this org needs. Albeit he also has some tendencies this org badly needs to get away from. At least let him rake in AAA for a couple months next season to rebuild some value before trading him. I’d certainly rather give him MLB at bats than Gavin Sheets or Trayce Thompson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: I think it’s more that we didn’t sign him and yet, here we are playing slow 1B in the OF the last 3 years. No argument from me on the team not signing a real RFer. I would've rather signed him than trot Gavin and the rotating mess of suck out there, but he's still a poor defender at the position, which is something that a couple nice plays in October doesn’t wash away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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