Cease To Padres per Passan

[bmags]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

if i were him that's where i'd go

I’d go giants.

[bmags]

34 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Who?

https://www.soxon35th.com/report-white-sox-making-3-new-front-office-hires/

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

if i were him that's where i'd go

I'd go to the Whitesox because we will show the patience to rebuild his value. Dodgers will move him to the bullpen if he doesn't perform.

I doubt he gets a longterm deal. He was waived multiple times. I suspect he will get a 1yr deal wherever he goes or at best a 1yr plus 1yr player option

Edited November 27, 2023 by wrathofhahn

[JoeC]

4 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I'd go to the Whitesox because we will show the patience to rebuild his value. 

lol

It's sink or swim here. "Showing the patience to rebuild his value" would be akin to just letting him flail more before letting him drown.

At least other teams would provide structure - or at least a different structure and set of coaching compared to what we would do.

[GreenSox]

4 hours ago, fathom said:

Matz, Carlson and prospect for Cease and a reliever?

That is the quintessential  "trade Cease for the junk drawer  of a 70-win team" trade.  And we'd have to throw in a reliever for the privilege.   
 

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, fathom said:

I saw someone say they were in on Nola. They probably want to spend money instead of trade prospects.

The Orioles?  Their fans aren’t expecting any sort of material addition via free agency and certainly not a Nola caliber signing.  Angelos has shown in his tenure that he is unwilling to spend big.

[fathom]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Orioles?  Their fans aren’t expecting any sort of material addition via free agency and certainly not a Nola caliber signing.  Angelos has shown in his tenure that he is unwilling to spend big.

Yes, Passan said that I believe 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yes, Passan said that I believe 

This hasn’t made its way to Orioles social media then.  Orioles fans view the Gray deal as massive and out of reach for them.  Regardless, there aren’t a ton of TOR starters to begin with and I doubt they can outbid the big market teams even if they were serious about pursuing those guys.

[bmags]

56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This hasn’t made its way to Orioles social media then.  Orioles fans view the Gray deal as massive and out of reach for them.  Regardless, there aren’t a ton of TOR starters to begin with and I doubt they can outbid the big market teams even if they were serious about pursuing those guys.

This is where I feel like the budget play for them will be at midseason expiring deals. They just aren’t in danger in this division enough to have to fix the issues they had in the playoffs with a big swing.

[caulfield12]

23 minutes ago, bmags said:

This is where I feel like the budget play for them will be at midseason expiring deals. They just aren’t in danger in this division enough to have to fix the issues they had in the playoffs with a big swing.

Unless the Yankees or Red Sox sign Ohtani...

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

lol

It's sink or swim here. "Showing the patience to rebuild his value" would be akin to just letting him flail more before letting him drown.

At least other teams would provide structure - or at least a different structure and set of coaching compared to what we would do.

I'm saying as a non-contending team our leash will be much longer than the LAD. He's been successful here in the past so whatever you think of the organization he's likely comfortable here. Also players do get into funks and work their way out of it. I mean it really boils down to what is important to Giolito get his 1 year deal on a contending club with the pressure to perform well or take a 1 year deal with a non-contending club and focus on rebuilding his value knowing unless he is completely unplayable he is going to get the baseball every 5th day

I don't see him getting 70M. I expect a 1 year or a 1+1 contract. I mean he was waived twice after the trade and was awful

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I'm saying as a non-contending team our leash will be much longer than the LAD. He's been successful here in the past so whatever you think of the organization he's likely comfortable here. Also players do get into funks and work their way out of it. I mean it really boils down to what is important to Giolito get his 1 year deal on a contending club with the pressure to perform well or take a 1 year deal with a non-contending club and focus on rebuilding his value knowing unless he is completely unplayable he is going to get the baseball every 5th day

I don't see him getting 70M. I expect a 1 year or a 1+1 contract. I mean he was waived twice after the trade and was awful

He’s better off getting into the pitching lab in LA to see if they can make some tweaks and make him more consistent. Also near home. Good fit.

[Chicago White Sox]

So as we all know, leaks nine times out of 10 are purposeful and intended to create misdirection.  In the case of Cease rumors, he has now been “linked” to two NL teams in the Braves & Dodgers.  If we assume this is misdirection, then the question is who leaking these rumors and how do they benefit?

When the Dodgers rumor was first leaked by Bob, it was impossible to say if it was the White Sox trying to scare a different team into thinking a Cease deal with LA could have some momentum behind it or if the Dodgers were trying to gain leverage in a different trade (Burnes, Glasnow, etc.) or with a free agent SP.   However, with the addition of the Braves and “other teams” in the mix, it seems to imply this coming from the White Sox’s camp.

If that is indeed true, why pick the Braves as a potential suitor?  Obviously the Dodgers are a good boogeyman in general because they have a SP need (even if they plan to address partially via FA) and they have a high-end system that lines up well for a trade with us in a variety of ways.  However, I really struggle to understand who the Braves would scare.  Is there even a NL East team that would be a viable candidate for Cease?  Or is this just about making the second tier NL teams across the divisions fear the rich getting richer and the path to a World Series even more difficult?

Outside of the Orioles and maybe the Red Sox, I don’t see a lot of serious contenders for Cease in the AL.  To me, the NL West and NL Central are the most likely landing spots as you have the most teams in need of a TOR starter. However, I kind of feel like this set of leaks points to the former.  If you’re the Dbacks, the stakes have been raised and you can’t settle for sneaking into the playoffs and hoping to get hot again.  If you’re the Padres, you’ve made your commitments to winning a World Series even if a payroll cut is coming.  And if you’re the Giants or in this case Farnhan, it’s time to show some real progress in a tough division or the heat will suddenly come towards you.

Don’t get me wrong, my dream would be a trade with the Orioles for a pair of high-end positional prospects, but I’m starting to think the NL West is where a trade Cease ultimately lands.  Just feels like you have four teams with a clear need and the trade assets to potentially get a deal done.  That creates leverage for us and I think these rumors might be a sign of that.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

This is where I feel like the budget play for them will be at midseason expiring deals. They just aren’t in danger in this division enough to have to fix the issues they had in the playoffs with a big swing.

I could easily see them waiting it out if they don’t like the cost to add a SP via trade right now, although I hope for our sake they are in the mix.

[Soxnfins]

Any trade with the Orioles should include Coby Mayo. He has a lot of Machado-esque vibes to him. An infield of Vaughn-Ramos-Monty-Mayo would be an infield you could get behind. Elite arm, and solid raw power to boot. Just have a gut feeling about him. 

[SoCalChiSox]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So as we all know, leaks nine times out of 10 are purposeful and intended to create misdirection.  In the case of Cease rumors, he has now been “linked” to two NL teams in the Braves & Dodgers.  If we assume this is misdirection, then the question is who leaking these rumors and how do they benefit?

When the Dodgers rumor was first leaked by Bob, it was impossible to say if it was the White Sox trying to scare a different team into thinking a Cease deal with LA could have some momentum behind it or if the Dodgers were trying to gain leverage in a different trade (Burnes, Glasnow, etc.) or with a free agent SP.   However, with the addition of the Braves and “other teams” in the mix, it seems to imply this coming from the White Sox’s camp.

If that is indeed true, why pick the Braves as a potential suitor?  Obviously the Dodgers are a good boogeyman in general because they have a SP need (even if they plan to address partially via FA) and they have a high-end system that lines up well for a trade with us in a variety of ways.  However, I really struggle to understand who the Braves would scare.  Is there even a NL East team that would be a viable candidate for Cease?  Or is this just about making the second tier NL teams across the divisions fear the rich getting richer and the path to a World Series even more difficult?

Outside of the Orioles and maybe the Red Sox, I don’t see a lot of serious contenders for Cease in the AL.  To me, the NL West and NL Central are the most likely landing spots as you have the most teams in need of a TOR starter. However, I kind of feel like this set of leaks points to the former.  If you’re the Dbacks, the stakes have been raised and you can’t settle for sneaking into the playoffs and hoping to get hot again.  If you’re the Padres, you’ve made your commitments to winning a World Series even if a payroll cut is coming.  And if you’re the Giants or in this case Farnhan, it’s time to show some real progress in a tough division or the heat will suddenly come towards you.

Don’t get me wrong, my dream would be a trade with the Orioles for a pair of high-end positional prospects, but I’m starting to think the NL West is where a trade Cease ultimately lands.  Just feels like you have four teams with a clear need and the trade assets to potentially get a deal done.  That creates leverage for us and I think these rumors might be a sign of that.

Perhaps as Ron (or one of his aliases) pointed out earlier, the Braves thing is intended to scare the Dodgers. These are the two major powers in the NL jockeying for top regular season positioning. Cease to ATL would be a dick punch to LAD. 

Pal said again today somethings been close with Cease for a week. If you add it to what Bob said today it seems maybe things are close with the Dodgers but Getz is trying to push it over the finish line here with this scare tactic.

My own pure guess is they are fighting over the third piece. LAD system is deep but lack elite monsters. Their best bats either have a high risk of ending up at 1B (Rushing, Busch)) or are coming off major injury (Pages) and all their good pitching prospects seem to have some meaningful flaws, so we prolly want a third top 100 player and LAD likely knowing BAL is gonna keep playing the prospect hugging bullshit game, are resisting. 

[caulfield12]

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-free-agency-2023-sonny-gray-addition-hints-at-a-new-dawn-for-the-st-louis-cardinals-dilapidated-pitching-staff-234114147.html

Cardinals mentioned at the end of article along with Cease and perhaps #31 Logan Gilbert/SEA as options to finalize rotation with #34 Cease as 1A to Gray.

https://www.fangraphs.com/projections?pos=&stats=pit&type=steamer

Could/should have targeted Cole Ragans instead...go wise KC front office!!!

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

The White Sox ask for Cease at the trade deadline was a package that included Brayan Bello.
 

Per Rob Bradford of WEEI

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, hi8is said:

The White Sox ask for Cease at the trade deadline was a package that included Brayan Bello.
 

Per Rob Bradford of WEEI

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/red-sox-well-represented-on-new-baseball-america-top-100-prospects-list/259869/
 

Would have been headliner…and second Sox Brayan (Ramos).

Edited November 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

7 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Perhaps as Ron (or one of his aliases) pointed out earlier, the Braves thing is intended to scare the Dodgers. These are the two major powers in the NL jockeying for top regular season positioning. Cease to ATL would be a dick punch to LAD. 

Pal said again today somethings been close with Cease for a week. If you add it to what Bob said today it seems maybe things are close with the Dodgers but Getz is trying to push it over the finish line here with this scare tactic.

My own pure guess is they are fighting over the third piece. LAD system is deep but lack elite monsters. Their best bats either have a high risk of ending up at 1B (Rushing, Busch)) or are coming off major injury (Pages) and all their good pitching prospects seem to have some meaningful flaws, so we prolly want a third top 100 player and LAD likely knowing BAL is gonna keep playing the prospect hugging bullshit game, are resisting. 

What’s a realistic package from the Dodgers that would do it for you?

[caulfield12]

White Sox receive: C Diego Cartaya, RHP River Ryan, LHP Ronan Kopp

Dodgers receive: RHP Dylan Cease

Cartaya, 22, began the 2023 season as the Dodgers' No. 1 overall prospect. He's currently ranked No. 3 overall, which is still impressive given LA's strong farm system.

Ryan is 25-years old and ranked No. 8 in the Dodgers' farm system, while Kopp is a 21-year-old left-handed pitcher ranked No. 16 for the Dodgers, per MLB.com.

So why trade Cartaya? After all, his ceiling is extremely high for a catcher.

The Dodgers need to choose between Will Smith and Diego Cartaya soon. They can't move either to first base since Freddie Freeman is patrolling the position. Meanwhile, LA is hopeful that Shohei Ohtani will take over DH duties.

Cartaya's potential suggests he will be more than a backup catcher. And Smith is already an All-Star big league catcher. So the Dodgers might as well trade one of them and receive a star like Dylan Cease in return.

Ryan is another Dodgers' top 10 prospect, while Kopp's age gives him plenty of time to develop for the rebuilding White Sox.

https://clutchpoints.com/dodgers-dylan-cease-trade-la-white-sox

 

[zisk]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s a realistic package from the Dodgers that would do it for you?

nothing. dodgers keep real prospects. the guys they trade become magic beans real quick.

[caulfield12]

That leaves you with three catchers (well, Lee, sort of) in the pipeline and plenty of latitude to eventually trade one of Cartaya or Quero for another position player like RF, 2B or 3B if Ramos fails…although seems likely Montgomery ultimately ends up at third.

Then another two coveted pitchers to add to the mix…or use as trade bait for even more position players as you build up some real legit depth in the minors finally. 
 

Catchers tend to have a lot more values as prospects in the minors…thinking of guys like Francisco Mejia or Keibert Ruiz that were considered centerpieces in major trades.

 

Cartaya projects to be a star catcher with offensive prowess, something that many big league catchers in today's game lack (see Quero, much more of a doubles/classic gap hitter.)

The addition of the other prospect pitchers makes this a realistic deal. Sure, the White Sox could ask for a little more or the Dodgers might display hesitancy before giving a top prospect like Cartaya away.

Edited November 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

White Sox receive: C Diego Cartaya, RHP River Ryan, LHP Ronan Kopp

Dodgers receive: RHP Dylan Cease

Cartaya, 22, began the 2023 season as the Dodgers' No. 1 overall prospect. He's currently ranked No. 3 overall, which is still impressive given LA's strong farm system.

Ryan is 25-years old and ranked No. 8 in the Dodgers' farm system, while Kopp is a 21-year-old left-handed pitcher ranked No. 16 for the Dodgers, per MLB.com.

So why trade Cartaya? After all, his ceiling is extremely high for a catcher.

The Dodgers need to choose between Will Smith and Diego Cartaya soon. They can't move either to first base since Freddie Freeman is patrolling the position. Meanwhile, LA is hopeful that Shohei Ohtani will take over DH duties.

Cartaya's potential suggests he will be more than a backup catcher. And Smith is already an All-Star big league catcher. So the Dodgers might as well trade one of them and receive a star like Dylan Cease in return.

Ryan is another Dodgers' top 10 prospect, while Kopp's age gives him plenty of time to develop for the rebuilding White Sox.

https://clutchpoints.com/dodgers-dylan-cease-trade-la-white-sox

 

Seems so light, not to mention trading our two biggest assets for players who only play 60% of the time. Pass

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Seems so light, not to mention trading our two biggest assets for players who only play 60% of the time. Pass

What’s the weakest position been other than Fisk, AJ and Grandal (2020-21) under JR???

Which player has been most frequently rumored to the Sox?  
Salvador Perez

They know they need to build strength up the middle…around Robert. Obviously 2B and SS as well are critical.

Edited November 28, 2023 by caulfield12