wrathofhahn Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 hours ago, hankchifan said: Off. Field issues could actually get worse for TA in Miami, with all the action in South Beach, and hot women everywhere. Whatever Tim Anderson ends up being at least there is potential that he can rebound and have a good year. Dejong is just awful. Which has been the theme all offseason we replace guys who had down/terrible years with awful baseball players. So where is the improvement going to come from? Tim Anderson, Grandal, etc were at least bounceback candidates I am not saying I wanted them back but at least last year as a fan I could tell myself Grandal and Anderson are going to hit because they have their entire careers basically. Dejong and Maldonado are never going to hit or be anything except marginal players. In fact if either of those guys even ended up being a marginal contributor that would be a huge positive as far as I'm concerned I don't think either are going to have positive wars or be in the lineup when the season ends. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Getz rebuilt the team in his 4A banjo image Welcome sluggers to GRF. Enjoy your Stay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 44 minutes ago, pcq said: Getz rebuilt the team in his 4A banjo image Welcome sluggers to GRF. Enjoy your Stay! Jesse Chavez is 9 days older than Chris Getz. Dominic Fletcher is six inches smaller than Chris Getz. Kevin Pillar is 35 years old. .692 is his best the first three real seasons this decade. Mike Moustakas is 35 years old. .685 is his best the first three real seasons this decade. This is not a serious franchise and won't be until a person without Reinsdorf in their name is controlling the franchise. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: Jesse Chavez is 9 days older than Chris Getz. Dominic Fletcher is six inches smaller than Chris Getz. Kevin Pillar is 35 years old. .692 is his best the first three real seasons this decade. Mike Moustakas is 35 years old. .685 is his best the first three real seasons this decade. This is not a serious franchise and won't be until a person without Reinsdorf in their name is controlling the franchise. I agree with all of this except for the Fletcher bullet. I still don’t think Mena was much to give up for a potential starter or even borderline starter/fourth outfielder type. Eaton was very similar in build and he did okay. But yeah, the rest was absolute dumpster diving. And it always seems there are better dumpster diving options available than whom the Sox choose. Amed Rosario was signed for $1.5 million. Randal Grichuk was signed for $2 million. These would have been much better acquisitions than Nicky Lopez and Pillar who cost $4.3 million and $3 million (if added to the roster) respectively. Getz could have signed two better players for $3.5 million. Instead, he chose two worse players at the same position for $7.3 million. He paid over double for worse assets. Edited February 24 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I agree with all of this except for the Fletcher bullet. I still don’t think Mena was much to give up for a potential starter or even borderline starter/fourth outfielder type. Eaton was very similar in build and he did okay. But yeah, the rest was absolute dumpster diving. And it always seems there are better dumpster diving options available than whom the Sox choose. Amed Rosario was signed for $1.5 million. Randal Grichuk was signed for $2 million. These would have been much better acquisitions than Nicky Lopez and Pillar who cost $4.3 million and $3 million (if added to the roster) respectively. It's not necessarily the money, but the lack of opportunity to target 2026/2027. Fletcher will be 29/30, Mena 24/25, The guys you mention have no impact beyond perhaps Rosario possibly being a decent flip candidate, but all these guys will also be gone on the next Sox competitive team. That said, Jerry had a dead last payroll the years leading up to the 1991 stadium, so unless he dies soon, not sure 2026/2027 is realistic in terms of smart moves to make enough of an impact within the next three seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 15 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: It's not necessarily the money, but the lack of opportunity to target 2026/2027. Fletcher will be 29/30, Mena 24/25, The guys you mention have no impact beyond perhaps Rosario possibly being a decent flip candidate, but all these guys will also be gone on the next Sox competitive team. That said, Jerry had a dead last payroll the years leading up to the 1991 stadium, so unless he dies soon, not sure 2026/2027 is realistic in terms of smart moves to make enough of an impact within the next three seasons. But all the little things add up. Maybe you can even get a Fletcher type prospect back at the deadline if you sign the better flip candidate like Rosario, rather than overpaying for Nicky Lopez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: It's not necessarily the money, but the lack of opportunity to target 2026/2027. Fletcher will be 29/30, Mena 24/25, The guys you mention have no impact beyond perhaps Rosario possibly being a decent flip candidate, but all these guys will also be gone on the next Sox competitive team. That said, Jerry had a dead last payroll the years leading up to the 1991 stadium, so unless he dies soon, not sure 2026/2027 is realistic in terms of smart moves to make enough of an impact within the next three seasons. What did Nola get? That could end up being a really nice addition if he finds his offense again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/23/2024 at 1:10 AM, greg775 said: I hear you. I wish the Sox brought him back one year 7 mill. I mean cmon, our 2B, SS combo will be the weakest hitting in all of baseball. True, TA was no good last year, but at least I've heard of him. I hope he does well in Miami. We also gave up too soon on Burger who has done well for himself in Miami. TA could do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/25/2024 at 2:06 AM, wrathofhahn said: Whatever Tim Anderson ends up being at least there is potential that he can rebound and have a good year. Dejong is just awful. Which has been the theme all offseason we replace guys who had down/terrible years with awful baseball players. So where is the improvement going to come from? Tim Anderson, Grandal, etc were at least bounceback candidates I am not saying I wanted them back but at least last year as a fan I could tell myself Grandal and Anderson are going to hit because they have their entire careers basically. Dejong and Maldonado are never going to hit or be anything except marginal players. In fact if either of those guys even ended up being a marginal contributor that would be a huge positive as far as I'm concerned I don't think either are going to have positive wars or be in the lineup when the season ends. DeJong was really good...in 2019. That's the best you can say. Lopez had that one outstanding 6+ fWAR year and has been a 1-1.5ish player ever since. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 3:06 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: I agree with all of this except for the Fletcher bullet. I still don’t think Mena was much to give up for a potential starter or even borderline starter/fourth outfielder type. Eaton was very similar in build and he did okay. But yeah, the rest was absolute dumpster diving. And it always seems there are better dumpster diving options available than whom the Sox choose. Amed Rosario was signed for $1.5 million. Randal Grichuk was signed for $2 million. These would have been much better acquisitions than Nicky Lopez and Pillar who cost $4.3 million and $3 million (if added to the roster) respectively. Getz could have signed two better players for $3.5 million. Instead, he chose two worse players at the same position for $7.3 million. He paid over double for worse assets. The Sox actually have a pretty good shot at a good, veteran bullpen. They have rotation depth and bullpen depth they haven't had for a good decade. Tell us the "dumpster diving" options for the bullpen that would have played for the Sox at the money offered. Amed Rosario is not a good fielder. And something tells me he would have had to be offered more to play with the Sox, and somehow, his bat would have fallen off. Pillar's a 4th OF. If he keeps hitting like his first 2 games, he's going to be really cheap. Like zero dollars. Seriously, as long as we all love to list out all the FA and trade failures over the past 15 years, why do you think Amed Rosario would come to Chicago and rake? Why do you think he would not put on a Sox uniform and OPS a whopping .450 in his first 3 months? If we're going to play the "everything this team has done sucked" game, we can't pretend the one guy they didn't sign would be the answer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 55 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The Sox actually have a pretty good shot at a good, veteran bullpen. They have rotation depth and bullpen depth they haven't had for a good decade. Tell us the "dumpster diving" options for the bullpen that would have played for the Sox at the money offered. Amed Rosario is not a good fielder. And something tells me he would have had to be offered more to play with the Sox, and somehow, his bat would have fallen off. Pillar's a 4th OF. If he keeps hitting like his first 2 games, he's going to be really cheap. Like zero dollars. Seriously, as long as we all love to list out all the FA and trade failures over the past 15 years, why do you think Amed Rosario would come to Chicago and rake? Why do you think he would not put on a Sox uniform and OPS a whopping .450 in his first 3 months? If we're going to play the "everything this team has done sucked" game, we can't pretend the one guy they didn't sign would be the answer. I wouldn’t really consider having a lot of bad arms in your rotation and bullpen that no one else wanted to be depth. And I don’t know if Rosario would be good here, but if you are going to go after cheap fliers that you could potentially flip for something at the deadline, he was a much better option than Paul DeJong. Rosario was a 4 win player in 2022 with the Guardians. If you are excited about the moves Getz made this offseason, thats fine. But it looks like classic dumpster diving to most other Sox fans, in line with what Hahn did when he wasn’t overpaying relievers. Edited February 26 by WhiteSox2023 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I wouldn’t really consider having a lot of bad arms in your rotation and bullpen that no one else wanted to be depth. And I don’t know if Rosario would be good here, but if you are going to go after cheap fliers that you could potentially flip for something at the deadline, he was a much better option than Paul DeJong. Rosario was a 4 win player in 2022 with the Guardians. If you are excited about the moves Getz made this offseason, thats fine. But it looks like classic dumpster diving to most other Sox fans, in line with what Hahn did when he wants overpaying relievers. Im not defending the Dejong move because it sucked, but your obsession with Rosario is weird. Guy isn’t even a SS at this point and Getz clearly made pretty much every move with an eye on vastly improving the defense. Rosario was never an option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Im not defending the Dejong move because it sucked, but your obsession with Rosario is weird. Guy isn’t even a SS at this point and Getz clearly made pretty much every move with an eye on vastly improving the defense. Rosario was never an option. Sorry, I should have compared him to Lopez. I’d rather have Rosario at 2B. DeJong was cheap enough that he doesn’t really matter, although he’s so bad he should have been a minor league signing with a ST invite. Either way, tough to see how these guys will score any runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 21 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sorry, I should have compared him to Lopez. I’d rather have Rosario at 2B. DeJong was cheap enough that he doesn’t really matter, although he’s so bad he should have been a minor league signing with a ST invite. Either way, tough to see how these guys will score any runs. At the risk of being an annoying broken record, the combo of DeJong and Lopez is by far the worst in baseball and maybe Sox history (maybe Luis Alvarado and Bobby Knoop was worst). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 7 minutes ago, greg775 said: At the risk of being an annoying broken record, the combo of DeJong and Lopez is by far the worst in baseball and maybe Sox history (maybe Luis Alvarado and Bobby Knoop was worst). No arguments here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 17 minutes ago, greg775 said: At the risk of being an annoying broken record, the combo of DeJong and Lopez is by far the worst in baseball and maybe Sox history (maybe Luis Alvarado and Bobby Knoop was worst). Alvarado and Knoop never played together with the White Sox and if memory serves Knoop won a Gold Glove as a second baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, greg775 said: At the risk of being an annoying broken record, the combo of DeJong and Lopez is by far the worst in baseball and maybe Sox history (maybe Luis Alvarado and Bobby Knoop was worst). Mike Moustakas was the fifth best 2023 hitter with regular at bats among those being considered for Opening Day. The more I've seen in February, the less I am confident they will play younger players over all the 30-37 year old guys (DeJong, Maldonado, Mendick, Moustakas, Pillar, Stassi) , with Stassi the only one who makes sense to even be here in 2024. I am no longer considering betting the Sox over 63.5 wins, even though it should be so easily beaten. Grifol and seemingly Tony and Getz will screw both 2024 and beyond up with this ancient veteran obsession. FanGraphs Projected lineup & 2024 OPS 2023 MLB OPS (Plate Appearances) .738 L Andrew Benintendi (29) LF .682 (621) .778 R Andrew Vaughn (25) 1B .743 (615) .810 R Luis Robert Junior (26) CF .857 (595) .734 S Yoan Moncada (28) 3B .730 (357) .812 R Eloy Jimenez (27) DH .758 (489) .671 L Dominic Fletcher (26) RF .791 (102) .658 R Paul DeJong (30) SS .613 (400) .632 L Nicky Lopez (28) 2B .633 (626) .582 R Martin Maldonado (37) C .606 (407) .648 R Max Stassi (32) C .648 (256) .720 L Gavin Sheets (27) 1B/"OF" .598 (344) .669 R Danny Mendick (30) INF/OF .509 (69) .690 R Kevin Pillar (35) OF .664 (206) Additional Reserves / Potential Callups .684 L Colson Montgomery (21) INF N/A .677 R Lenyn Sosa (24) INF .572 (173) .632 L Braden Shewmake (26) INF .000 (4) .615 R Korey Lee (25) C .281 (70) .647 R Jose Rodriguez (22) INF .000 (0) .697 L Oscar Colas (25) OF .571 (263) .667 L Zach DeLoach (25) OF N/A .660 R Peyton Burdick (26) OF .603 (37) .669 L Mike Moustakas (35) 1B/3B .685 (386) Edited February 26 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Rosario was a 4 win player in 2022 with the Guardians. Well, Nicky Lopez was a 4 WAR player with the Royals in 2021, so we have that covered. 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I wouldn’t really consider having a lot of bad arms in your rotation and bullpen that no one else wanted to be depth. Which arms are bad, and who didn't want them? They traded for Soroka, and beat out the Mets for Fedde. Both were top prospects, and still have talent. Flexen, Kuhl, they had some success in the past. No, they're not Big Unit in his prime. I'd bet they're all ahead of Jesse Scholtens in the 'first up' category. 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: But it looks like classic dumpster diving to most other Sox fans, in line with what Hahn did when he wasn’t overpaying relievers. I wish Hahn did robust dumpster diving like this. Nobody mistook this team as 2-3 moves away from a World Series competitor. And who even says the top guys this off-season even sign with the Sox at market? If the Sox were doing this every season, they'd have a couple of Kenyan Middletons every year to step in when Aaron Bummer went down, or to flip for a lotto ticket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, WestEddy said: Well, Nicky Lopez was a 4 WAR player with the Royals in 2021, so we have that covered. Which arms are bad, and who didn't want them? They traded for Soroka, and beat out the Mets for Fedde. Both were top prospects, and still have talent. Flexen, Kuhl, they had some success in the past. No, they're not Big Unit in his prime. I'd bet they're all ahead of Jesse Scholtens in the 'first up' category. I wish Hahn did robust dumpster diving like this. Nobody mistook this team as 2-3 moves away from a World Series competitor. And who even says the top guys this off-season even sign with the Sox at market? If the Sox were doing this every season, they'd have a couple of Kenyan Middletons every year to step in when Aaron Bummer went down, or to flip for a lotto ticket. Gregory Santos is probably the best (recent) example... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) If Hahn did what Getz did, he'd still be employed. He is giving the younger players time to learn and grow in the minors instead of rushing everyone. You can't argue with that. Look at what the fools did last year with Korey Lee, Sosa, Popeye. Goes all the way to Beckham. Beckham was awesome when he first came up but was figured out. Could say the same for Madrigal, Vaughn, Burdi, Kopech and the kid from Vanderbilt. How much is forced from the JR hand, the KW philosophy and Hahn's general stupidity we will never know. Edited February 26 by Harry Chappas 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: If Hahn did what Getz did, he'd still be employed. He is giving the younger players time to learn and grow in the minors instead of rushing everyone. You can't argue with that. Look at what the fools did last year with Korey Lee, Sosa, Popeye. Goes all the way to Beckham. Beckham was awesome when he first came up but was figured out. Could say the same for Madrigal, Vaughn, Burdi, Kopech and the kid from Vanderbilt. How much is forced from the JR hand, the KW philosophy and Hahn's general stupidity we will never know. Isn’t it also possible that these guys are just not good enough / injury-prone players / busts that weren’t going to make it regardless? I sure see a lot of other team’s top prospects get called up at much younger ages and tear it up. Edited February 26 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Isn’t it also possible that these guys are just not good enough / injury-prone players / busts that weren’t going to make it regardless? I sure see a lot of other team’s top prospects get called up at much younger ages and tear it up. Beckham just couldn’t hit the high fastball…neither could Viciedo. Most hitters can hit the fastball ahead in counts, it’s the slider or curve off the plate outside that usually get them. Or pitching backwards if they have enough confidence in their off speed stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 The Marlins have Burger and Anderson on the left side of the infield. As of now the White Sox have Moncada and Dejong on the left side of the infield. I would rather have the Marlins left side of the infield over what the White Sox have. I'm hoping Montgomery has a good spring training and is the Opening Day shortstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, WBWSF said: The Marlins have Burger and Anderson on the left side of the infield. As of now the White Sox have Moncada and Dejong on the left side of the infield. I would rather have the Marlins left side of the infield over what the White Sox have. I'm hoping Montgomery has a good spring training and is the Opening Day shortstop. I am absolutely hoping for the opposite. Rushing the guy from AA because you have to fill a spot on your competitive roster that is totally competitive and definitely competitive is a Rick Hahn classic. Montgomery was hurt for a good portion of last year, has 218 plate appearances at AA, and a .218 batting average at AA. Let him play his way up. Give him 2 good months at AA if he's healthy, then move him up to Charlotte, and if he's still strong there, then bring him up later in the season. If he has any more injuries or struggles with anything, take your time and wait until next year - if you wait until April 2025 you might even have a shot at a compensatory pick for him being an opening day callus. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 21 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Alvarado and Knoop never played together with the White Sox and if memory serves Knoop won a Gold Glove as a second baseman. bobby knopp couldn't hit a lick. he was like ron hansen in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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