Jake Burger

[hi8is]

Our old boy TA also seems to be soaring.

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

It's not just this year for Eder though. He has been terrible since the Sox acquired him and hasn't shown any signs of getting better yet. Jake Burger has proven he can hit major league pitching and is a power bat that the Sox offense could use right about now. 

Again, Rick and Kenny were not even in communication with each other on this trade. Bad process on a horrible trade. 

He has pitched a grand total of 65 innings since his return.  This is no where near back from TJS.  That is about 2 months worth of work.

 

[Chisoxfn]

51 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ehh. I'd still roll with the AV, but he's certainly earned the skepticism lately. 

I would have kept Burger - only because I think on the field they are similar players in terms of value - but there was a time where the Sox could have gotten more for Vaughn (that shine is gone so I no longer think that is the case).  

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Chris Getz told us Eder was close to the big leagues this last offseason. If he's close, the farm may be worse than we think.

I still don't know why people like to Jerry, Chris, and Pedro and believe them.  You'd find more truth at a [insert offending politician name here] rally.

[Middle Buffalo]

55 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Jake just seems like such a likeable guy. The kind you could sit down with and have a beer. The world needs more like him, Mark B and Mark Grace to name a few

Sit down with Mark Grace for a few beers, and the two of you might share some additional time and space in Tent City.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I still don't know why people like to Jerry, Chris, and Pedro and believe them.  You'd find more truth at a [insert offending politician name here] rally.

It would at least suggest health isn't the reason he's now underperforming, unless he got hurt again. But the White Sox seem to be trying to run Crochet into the ground, so who knows?

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It would at least suggest health isn't the reason he's now underperforming, unless he got hurt again. But the White Sox seem to be trying to run Crochet into the ground, so who knows?

Or that he was feeding people a line of crap.

[oldsox]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It would at least suggest health isn't the reason he's now underperforming, unless he got hurt again. But the White Sox seem to be trying to run Crochet into the ground, so who knows?

C'mon, man. You can do better.

[Harry Chappas]

50 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If we are talking about what the process of the trade was, most of this is not relevant.  The point was to get someone who could actually help the franchise when it was good again, not to waste three more years with a DH.  Eder was a top left handed starting pitching prospect before his Tommy John.  Obviously if he had recovered quickly and not suffered a subsequent injury on his road back to the mound, he wouldn't have been available for a mediocre bat only DH.  That's the thought process behind the trade.  Take a chance on getting him healthy and back on the mound on a regular basis again to see if he rounds back into the form that made him a borderline top 100 guy.  With his second injury he never went through the ramp up process of getting his strength and conditioning back post TJS, which was obvious with his still recovering velocity during the fall league.  If you want to be hung up on his ERA in 8 innings of 2024, but not Burger's 88 OPS for 64 PAs, as some kind of disqualifying rational for why you don't make the trade last year, feel free to engage in your circular logic all you like.  The bottom line is the kid has thrown 56 innings since the end of 2021.  I suspect he is a guy who will get better as the season wears on as he gets back into condition to start.

Sounds like the guy that currently is the only reason to watch the White Sox. 

[southsider2k5]

26 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Sounds like the guy that currently is the only reason to watch the White Sox. 

He has a better history of health in general, but that's not the worst call.

I mean in general this is my feeling.  If you are going to go through this process you should be acquiring as much potential talent as possible for the 4 to 6 years out range, with as many high ceilings as possible.  Sure Eder could bust.  Lots of prospects do, especially pitching ones, and ones post injury.  To me this is the same idea as taking a Grant Taylor in the 2nd round a couple of years ago.  It is the same story as Lucas Giolito or many others who had the same thing happen.   You know you won't get his best for a period of time, maybe a year or two.  But his ceiling is so much higher that it is worth the chance.  This isn't a promise that Eder will be a star player.  This is a reduced price shot at a front line lefty starter who has some dents in him, versus a potential front line lefty starter with no scratches or dents who costs a LOT more than Jake Burger.  The fact he has struggled a bit post injuries isn't that odd, or even a real surprise.  People struggle with stuff and conditioning their first year past TJS. Top that off with a broken pushoff foot before he even got back from TJS, and it doesn't seem crazy that he has struggled some.  That's also not to say he won't fail either.  He could well fail.  We could have bought damaged goods that never get fixed.  But it was a trade that makes sense to try no matter what the results are for a team that is BEGGING for future talent.

[Kyyle23]

26 minutes ago, oldsox said:

C'mon, man. You can do better.

What’s wrong with what he said

[WestEddy]

37 minutes ago, oldsox said:

C'mon, man. You can do better.

Yeah, most people just call it "getting a major league pitcher innings". 

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

What’s wrong with what he said

If what he said was right, then all major league teams are trying to grind down all of their pitchers. 

[The Grinder]

1 hour ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Sit down with Mark Grace for a few beers, and the two of you might share some additional time and space in Tent City.

Why? Has be fallen on hard times? I think he got a DUI a long time ago

[T R U]

24 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If what he said was right, then all major league teams are trying to grind down all of their pitchers. 

There's just a little bit of a difference between an MLB starter and a reliever trying to transition to a starter who hasn't come anywhere close to those game workloads in many years.

[hankchifan]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:38 AM, greg775 said:

I was wrong on Burger and admitted it. I didn't want to draft him but he became a favorite. Very sad when they shipped him out for no good reason. He coulda been DH for 12 years. Not a fluid fielder.

 

On 4/5/2024 at 12:17 PM, pettie4sox said:

This thread makes my stomach turn but we all knew the Sox were going to be absolute dog s%*# this year.

Wish they had traded the listless Vaughn instead.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, T R U said:

There's just a little bit of a difference between an MLB starter and a reliever trying to transition to a starter who hasn't come anywhere close to those game workloads in many years.

I've already fought the whole group over what we know Crochet has thrown in the last few years. The Sox will probably take him up to 100 innings this year, then ramp him down, which sounds completely reasonable. 

[T R U]

Just now, WestEddy said:

I've already fought the whole group over what we know Crochet has thrown in the last few years. The Sox will probably take him up to 100 innings this year, then ramp him down, which sounds completely reasonable. 

I agree, it does seem reasonable for the innings workload. Not sure I agree with letting him throw 90 pitches and going into the 6th inning right out of the gate though. Just doesn't seem wise, especially with this season already toast.

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Just because everyone likes to point out when former Sox do well with their new team, especially Burger.  After getting out of the gate quickly Burger is down to an 86 wRC+ (.228/.281/.421) and quickly fell back to 0 fWAR. He has started as many games at 1B as 3B, and is now on the IL with another core/oblique injury.

I wish Jake well, but will again repeat that he's not a guy that is going to haunt the Sox long term. 

Still better than Vaughn.

[Kyyle23]

46 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If what he said was right, then all major league teams are trying to grind down all of their pitchers. 

It’s not all pitchers though, it’s Crochet who has had nothing but arm troubles with very little innings.  I hope this works out and Crochet is the ace we dream he can be but I’m not gonna sit here and say I agree with letting him throw 92 pitches in a meaningless April start in a lost season was something I wanted to see.  The Sox don’t get the benefit of the doubt in handling pitchers well recently so I don’t really see anything wrong with what he said

[WestEddy]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

It’s not all pitchers though, it’s Crochet who has had nothing but arm troubles with very little innings.  I hope this works out and Crochet is the ace we dream he can be but I’m not gonna sit here and say I agree with letting him throw 92 pitches in a meaningless April start in a lost season was something I wanted to see.  The Sox don’t get the benefit of the doubt in handling pitchers well recently so I don’t really see anything wrong with what he said

Well, throwing 92 pitches in a game isn't "grinding down" a pitcher. It's the 40 pitch innings that are worrisome. If a guy throws 15-20 pitches, then sits down for however long the other half of the inning takes, that's just regular work. Crochet has never been as healthy as he's been this spring. 

And I'm not sure what "benefit of the doubt" is being requested for the Sox. This is all standard pitcher protocol. Crochet's previous injuries or how many innings he threw 5 years ago don't really have anything to do with his workload this year. 

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I've already fought the whole group over what we know Crochet has thrown in the last few years. The Sox will probably take him up to 100 innings this year, then ramp him down, which sounds completely reasonable. 

If what you say is true, what would be the reason to get to that 100 ASAP?

[WestEddy]

11 minutes ago, T R U said:

I agree, it does seem reasonable for the innings workload. Not sure I agree with letting him throw 90 pitches and going into the 6th inning right out of the gate though. Just doesn't seem wise, especially with this season already toast.

As I just commented to someone else in this thread, 90 pitches in 6 innings isn't the problem. It's the 40 pitch innings that really stress the arm. The 140 pitch, 9 inning outings aren't good, either. If a pitcher throws 15-20 pitches, then rests for the other half of the inning, that's regular work. 

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If what you say is true, what would be the reason to get to that 100 ASAP?

Right now, they have one pitcher who can get through the 5th inning on a regular basis. By the middle-end of June, they should have Clevinger, maybe Keller, Nastrini/Cannon getting through the 5th, and saving the bullpen, some, and they'll ramp him down. 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Well, throwing 92 pitches in a game isn't "grinding down" a pitcher. It's the 40 pitch innings that are worrisome. If a guy throws 15-20 pitches, then sits down for however long the other half of the inning takes, that's just regular work. Crochet has never been as healthy as he's been this spring. 

And I'm not sure what "benefit of the doubt" is being requested for the Sox. This is all standard pitcher protocol. Crochet's previous injuries or how many innings he threw 5 years ago don't really have anything to do with his workload this year. 

To be fair I literally can't think of another pitcher being asked to go from essentially no innings base at all to a starters load over the course of a current season.  Even a guy like Chris Sale or Jose Quintana had something like 70 or 80 innings in previous seasons, while Crochet comes no where close to it.  The thinking is by extending him so quickly, you increase the risk of injuries in the shorter term.  Maybe 70 pitch outings while extending up to say 100-120 innings that way are better than doing it in 3 months while pushing past 90 pitches to 100.  If you save an inning or two with shorter starts now, it allows him to work more starts over the course of the season to get to his innings peak for the year, instead of being shut down sooner, or worse hurt from fatigue.