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Luis Robert trade thread: La Pantera stays.


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17 minutes ago, bmags said:

it is so astounding that this guy became one of the worst players in baseball while entering his prime. I'm sure some blame goes to him, but man. Every single one of that 2021 core became non mlb players by the time they hit 28. It makes no sense.

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. Moncada and Robert got HUGE signing bonuses and were extended early. Eloy and TA were extended early. All four of them also dealt with severe injuries. The clubhouse culture sucked after Renteria. The Sox stunk at drafting and developing hitters. Basically every free agent signing didn't work out except Liam.

When you take all of this into account (injuries, a lot of money before proving much of anything, bad clubhouse culture, few veteran examples of how to do things right on their roster, and little to no help from players outside the core group), it's not surprising they all washed out.

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42 minutes ago, Ducksnort said:

Who gets a better deal? The White Sox with Robert or Red Sox with Devers? 🤔

The Red Sox clearly made the better deal.  They're not going to pay a DH (maybe 1B with the Giants for a few years) $30M+/year (yeah I know $60M+ is deferred forever).  The Red Sox got back a top 100 prospect (Tibbs) and Harrison would be our current #1 starter.  What do you think the going rate is for a 4th OF (on a contender) that is due over $8M for the rest of the year?

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

it is so astounding that this guy became one of the worst players in baseball while entering his prime. I'm sure some blame goes to him, but man. Every single one of that 2021 core became non mlb players by the time they hit 28. It makes no sense.

Better play through chemistry?

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13 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

The Red Sox clearly made the better deal.  They're not going to pay a DH (maybe 1B with the Giants for a few years) $30M+/year (yeah I know $60M+ is deferred forever).  The Red Sox got back a top 100 prospect (Tibbs) and Harrison would be our current #1 starter.  What do you think the going rate is for a 4th OF (on a contender) that is due over $8M for the rest of the year?

Go on the Red Sox forum with those rose colored glasses. They'll love you there. 

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23 minutes ago, almagest said:

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. Moncada and Robert got HUGE signing bonuses and were extended early. Eloy and TA were extended early. All four of them also dealt with severe injuries. The clubhouse culture sucked after Renteria. The Sox stunk at drafting and developing hitters. Basically every free agent signing didn't work out except Liam.

When you take all of this into account (injuries, a lot of money before proving much of anything, bad clubhouse culture, few veteran examples of how to do things right on their roster, and little to no help from players outside the core group), it's not surprising they all washed out.

Yes things are difficult here but still surprising the degree of their drop. Not talking about being stars to just then being normie ball players. But Robert isn't hitting .700-.720 ops. We are talking almost a year and a half of an OPS+ in the 70s. Like, Leury garcia at age 27, just like robert, was 20% better offensively. And he sucked!

Eloy Jimenez went from a 140 wRC+ at 25 to out of the league at 28.

Vaughn was just an underwhelming 1B who suddenly was hitting worse than if you cut Leury Garcia's age 27 offensive season in half. Out of the league in AAA.

Moncada ... well he seems like he's generally the same just injured. A more normal person who just prioritizes looking hot in music videos over baseball strength.

Anderson I think is the MOST explainable. Him and Schoop were near carbon copies of one another offensively. Both were putting great offensive numbers up, and both fell off a cliff at age 30. Their approach just wasn't built to last.

White sox players being underwhelming is built in for me. I'm used to a Brent Morel coming up and actually being ass. But this crop of dudes actually showing up as top players only to regress to out of the league just as quick is WILD. 

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11 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes things are difficult here but still surprising the degree of their drop. Not talking about being stars to just then being normie ball players. But Robert isn't hitting .700-.720 ops. We are talking almost a year and a half of an OPS+ in the 70s. Like, Leury garcia at age 27, just like robert, was 20% better offensively. And he sucked!

Eloy Jimenez went from a 140 wRC+ at 25 to out of the league at 28.

Vaughn was just an underwhelming 1B who suddenly was hitting worse than if you cut Leury Garcia's age 27 offensive season in half. Out of the league in AAA.

Moncada ... well he seems like he's generally the same just injured. A more normal person who just prioritizes looking hot in music videos over baseball strength.

Anderson I think is the MOST explainable. Him and Schoop were near carbon copies of one another offensively. Both were putting great offensive numbers up, and both fell off a cliff at age 30. Their approach just wasn't built to last.

White sox players being underwhelming is built in for me. I'm used to a Brent Morel coming up and actually being ass. But this crop of dudes actually showing up as top players only to regress to out of the league just as quick is WILD. 

Eloy dealt with a ton of really bad injuries that caused him to miss a big chunk of his early career. He's least surprising to me, honestly. 

Robert has also had a number of bad injuries. Who knows how that affected his hitting. He also always had a lot of variance in his game because of his approach. There's just no sustained periods where he looks like the best hitter in baseball anymore. It's only the bad, flailing away at outside sliders part.

Vaughn was mediocre in the minors, so it's not like warning signs weren't there. He was a big scouting failure, just like Madrigal.

Moncada probably peaked in 2019 and would never come close to those offensive numbers again. His 2021 season was likely a good bet for how he'd perform yearly if he wasn't injured all the time (or didn't want to play). Sox should've put their foot down on his workout regimen if it was a concern as we suspect. Or maybe they did, but since Yoan got his signing bonus and had a long-term deal after 2019 he didn't listen.

That's an interesting point on TA. Maybe his injury in 2023 affected him too because he looked good before it, but if he stayed healthy, maybe he would've turned in a season like 2012 Paul Konerko, who looked like Frank Thomas from April - May and then completely fell off a cliff.

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1 hour ago, almagest said:

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. Moncada and Robert got HUGE signing bonuses and were extended early. Eloy and TA were extended early. All four of them also dealt with severe injuries. The clubhouse culture sucked after Renteria. The Sox stunk at drafting and developing hitters. Basically every free agent signing didn't work out except Liam.

When you take all of this into account (injuries, a lot of money before proving much of anything, bad clubhouse culture, few veteran examples of how to do things right on their roster, and little to no help from players outside the core group), it's not surprising they all washed out.

In retrospect I feel like I (and others) owe Ricky so many apologies.

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7 minutes ago, Quin said:

In retrospect I feel like I (and others) owe Ricky so many apologies.

Too bad we can't see the alternate timeline where they never fire Renteria and TLR never returns to the Sox. 

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47 minutes ago, Baron said:

Go on the Red Sox forum with those rose colored glasses. They'll love you there. 

I bet they're not happy because they took a bit of a reset (during a season where they might be in contention for a play-in game) and they s%*# out money.  The reality is that they could now reallocate that $250M to better resources.  Now, if Henry is using it for soccer or whatever else they can complain.  The reality is they got out of a shitty contract for a DH and got a solid return.  We aren't getting s%*# for Robert.

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13 minutes ago, Quin said:

In retrospect I feel like I (and others) owe Ricky so many apologies.

It's wild that the 2020 AL manager of the year runner up got fired. I remember loving how hard that team played. They should've beaten Oakland, though that was more of a .500 team that got hot for a bit during the short season than it was an actual contender.

Surprised Rick hasn't gotten any other jobs though. Wonder why.

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9 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

I bet they're not happy because they took a bit of a reset (during a season where they might be in contention for a play-in game) and they s%*# out money.  The reality is that they could now reallocate that $250M to better resources.  Now, if Henry is using it for soccer or whatever else they can complain.  The reality is they got out of a shitty contract for a DH and got a solid return.  We aren't getting s%*# for Robert.

Solid return is being nice. 

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1 hour ago, almagest said:

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. Moncada and Robert got HUGE signing bonuses and were extended early. Eloy and TA were extended early. All four of them also dealt with severe injuries. The clubhouse culture sucked after Renteria. The Sox stunk at drafting and developing hitters. Basically every free agent signing didn't work out except Liam.

When you take all of this into account (injuries, a lot of money before proving much of anything, bad clubhouse culture, few veteran examples of how to do things right on their roster, and little to no help from players outside the core group), it's not surprising they all washed out.

And you have to look at the reason why they were extended early, the Sox were trying to save money in the long run by locking guys in before they hit arbitration and eventually free agency.

 

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1 hour ago, almagest said:

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. Moncada and Robert got HUGE signing bonuses and were extended early. Eloy and TA were extended early. All four of them also dealt with severe injuries. The clubhouse culture sucked after Renteria. The Sox stunk at drafting and developing hitters. Basically every free agent signing didn't work out except Liam.

When you take all of this into account (injuries, a lot of money before proving much of anything, bad clubhouse culture, few veteran examples of how to do things right on their roster, and little to no help from players outside the core group), it's not surprising they all washed out.

I still believe Robert does a complete 180 once he is out of this dumpster organization. You wonder if he would have ever even come here had we not had that strong Cuban presence initially. He just seems like a guy going through the motions and not enjoying it one bit. 

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15 minutes ago, almagest said:

It's wild that the 2020 AL manager of the year runner up got fired. I remember loving how hard that team played. They should've beaten Oakland, though that was more of a .500 team that got hot for a bit during the short season than it was an actual contender.

Surprised Rick hasn't gotten any other jobs though. Wonder why.

He wasn't great with the X's and O's, but then they hired a guy who didn't even know what the rules were anymore.

We all know Hinch was lined up and lo and behold, the Tigers are in a good spot.

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10 minutes ago, T R U said:

I still believe Robert does a complete 180 once he is out of this dumpster organization. You wonder if he would have ever even come here had we not had that strong Cuban presence initially. He just seems like a guy going through the motions and not enjoying it one bit. 

It's well known that he's introverted as hell. Knowing that the org has desperately wanted to trade you for 2 years + all of your teammates that you've bonded with being gone, I get it.

I think the only teammate I've seen him really chatting up is Vargas, which makes sense - although, admittedly, I watch games more passively now and am not looking for dugout shots. I've seen people say good riddance to the Cuban connection that the Sox had, but it's a very real thing throughout their history that shouldn't be discounted.

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