WhiteSox2023 Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Any time you question if the Sox are making money… https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2025/05/11/pete-alonso-stats-new-york-mets/83556338007/– The Pittsburgh Pirates, according to information received by the players union and confirmed by several owners, are one of the most profitable teams in all of baseball, stashing a huge chunk of their revenue sharing monies instead of investing in their team year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 (edited) 2025 MLB team payrolls: 26. Pittsburgh Pirates, $87,645,246 27. Chicago White Sox, $82,279,825 28. Tampa Bay Rays, $79,216,312 29. Athletics, $73,118,981 30. Miami Marlins, $67,412,619 Edited May 11 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Any time you question if the Sox are making money… https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2025/05/11/pete-alonso-stats-new-york-mets/83556338007/ Exactly. And they aren't the first team to have done this with their revenue sharing money. Bob Costas was on the Dan Patrick show a few days ago and ripped the Pirates a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 It's disgusting as a fan of these teams to know that the league set it up this way. Not all owners but a majority are OK with subsidized losing. Certainly ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) 19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Any time you question if the Sox are making money… https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2025/05/11/pete-alonso-stats-new-york-mets/83556338007/ White Sox are still considered a large market team...so not getting all those benefits like Pittsburgh Oakland/Sacramento/LV and the Marlins/TB. They also have Skenes, ONeil Cruz, Reynolds and K.Hayes with big financial commitments...or soon to be extended in all likelihood. Sterling Marte and G.Polanco in past years, etc. Skenes ofc likely to force a trade at some point like Glasnow Musgrove Taillon etc. Edited May 11 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) 19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: 2025 MLB team payrolls: 26. Pittsburgh Pirates, $87,645,246 27. Chicago White Sox, $82,279,825 28. Tampa Bay Rays, $79,216,312 29. Athletics, $73,118,981 30. Miami Marlins, $67,412,619 https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/ White Sox 28th here...Oakland just $100,000 less but have spent big already on Severino Rooker Butler and you can bet Jacob Wilson, Mason Miller or Kurtz would be next. Edited May 11 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 even with a salary cap - s%*# teams will still be s%*# teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 That's really pathetic that the Pirates spent 5m more than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 24 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: That's really pathetic that the Pirates spent 5m more than us. Sox still trying to get rid of Benintendi and Robert. They are taking aim at the Marlins payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Every bad team wants to be like the Rays - better known for cost effectiveness but becoming less known for winning. Just think if they come along with that mythical salary cap nothing will change Those same cheap ass owners will brag about their 100 loss teams being $100M under the salary cap. Too many owners that are bad for the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 8 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: It's disgusting as a fan of these teams to know that the league set it up this way. Not all owners but a majority are OK with subsidized losing. Certainly ours. it's disgusting...but to me the most disgusting team is the pirates also get free draft picks and more intl money while the sox choose to operate as a dirt poor team while getting docked for being a high revenue team. The only actors being punished by anti-tanking rules, competitive balance rules, etc...are truly white sox fans. We are the worst team in history and couldn't even get the benefit of a first overall pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) Pretty clear there's about 11 smaller or mid market teams and around 10 that would be 100% opposed to any type of spending cap. Maybe 9 in the middle. Large: Dodgers Yankees Phillies Mets Giants Cubs LA Angels Boston Texas Toronto Med: Padres Braves (under Liberty) Houston AZ StL Wash Seattle Colorado White Sox (Ishbia) Small: Milwaukee Baltimore Detroit Cincy Cleveland KC Minnesota Pittsburgh Miami Sacramento TB/Orlando Edited May 12 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Moooton Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 3 hours ago, bmags said: it's disgusting...but to me the most disgusting team is the pirates also get free draft picks and more intl money while the sox choose to operate as a dirt poor team while getting docked for being a high revenue team. The only actors being punished by anti-tanking rules, competitive balance rules, etc...are truly white sox fans. We are the worst team in history and couldn't even get the benefit of a first overall pick. Yeah, exactly. We operate as a small market team, but with none of the benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 14 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Any time you question if the Sox are making money… https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2025/05/11/pete-alonso-stats-new-york-mets/83556338007/ I enjoyed the win on Mothers' Day including Tim Elko's bomb. So did a lot of other Sox fans. Wish I was at that game to say hello to Nancy Faust and see Tim's HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 14 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Any time you question if the Sox are making money… https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2025/05/11/pete-alonso-stats-new-york-mets/83556338007/ The Sox aren’t a revenue receiving team, so pretty big difference there. But regardless, this s%*# shouldn’t be allowed. I’m all for the big market clubs subsidizing the small market clubs if there isn’t a hard salary cap, but those dollars need to be reinvested into the org and not lining the owner’s pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/what-the-pirates-twins-finances-reveal-about-mlbs-revenue-divide/ Now.we know why Ishbia passed on the Twins: an additional $450 million in debt, RSN monies cut in half and no possibility of building a new stadium. Arrives at the conclusion the Pirates still lost $2.2 million in 2024 also largely due to severely diminished RSN revenues. https://dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0&content=pirates-losing-money-bob-nutting-investigation-mlb-dk Pirates' finances will leave you at a loss Edited May 12 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) "But there’s one last wrinkle in the DK Pittsburgh Sports story. It noted that the Pirates were at their most profitable in 2013-2015, when the team was spending the most it has spent to this day on payroll. That’s the last time the Pirates had a winning record, and winning brings with it the reward of more fans and more revenue. This is the conundrum these (small market) owners face. If you want to understand another reason why commissioner Rob Manfred and MLB's plan to remake TV/streaming contracts in the late 2020s involves pooling the local TV rights together, this helps explain it. In part, there is a belief for MLB that they can get larger TV contracts (and potentially more advertising revenue) by pooling the rights. The ability to pay on a monthly basis makes teams even more dependent on fan sentiment. If a significant portion of a team’s monthly subscribers cancel in the middle of a disappointing season, that’s millions of dollars in expected revenues that will have disappeared. But if local TV revenues are pooled, owners don’t have to worry about that nearly as much..." Edited May 12 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) Last week on the radio I heard discussion of Rafael Devers making it known he is not happy getting moved off 3rd base. For a split second I thought the Sox could make a possible trade offer, then reality set in. Edited May 12 by Falstaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 It is so telling though that if a team spends a lot on players the owners feel quite emboldened to criticize, but the money they take out of their own pockets to go to another owner to just hold as profit is met with only anonymous confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6228151/2025/03/24/minnesota-twins-sale-pohlads-valuation-debt/ The Twins, in talks with one interested group, deemed a $1.5 billion valuation a non-starter. Any professional team sale is complicated but Minnesota’s presents specific challenges because of market size, questions about future profitability, and the team’s current debt. The Twins have accrued in excess of $425 million of debt, according to multiple people briefed on the sale process, which is one of the highest figures among MLB’s 30 teams. Though nearly every team operates with debt, the Pohlad family — which has owned the team for 40 years — is motivated to ask for a higher sale price as a result, potentially limiting interest. A considerable portion of the team’s debt has been added since the start of the 2020 season, according to a club source, which coincided with both the COVID-19 pandemic and George Floyd’s murder in Minneapolis. Edited May 12 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/11/cnbcs-official-mlb-team-valuations-2025.html Teams with highest debt loads to net valuation... 1. Marlins 38% 2. Nationals 27% 3. Rangers 25% 4. Twins 24% 5. Royals 19% 6. Padres 17% White Sox 9% Cleveland 6% Detroit 10% Rockies 7% Pirates 10% Edited May 12 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 If teams are taking on debt to fund daily operations, there are a lot of people completely wrong about how much these small market teams are making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 12 hours ago, bmags said: it's disgusting...but to me the most disgusting team is the pirates also get free draft picks and more intl money while the sox choose to operate as a dirt poor team while getting docked for being a high revenue team. The only actors being punished by anti-tanking rules, competitive balance rules, etc...are truly white sox fans. We are the worst team in history and couldn't even get the benefit of a first overall pick. Co-signing. What JR is doing is despicable. What Nutting is doing is a different level of abhorrent malpractice altogether. Hell, they disrespected Roberto Clemente. If JR does one thing right, it's respecting franchise legends, with Loretta's Lounge being the big, notable blunder*. And that's a vendor vs. the greatest player in franchise history. *I'm sure someone is about to bring up another instance. I just can't think of one off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 If you remove the top enormous player contracts from the equation, the respective salary costs for each team begin to narrow. Remove Judge Giancarlo, Soto, Ohtani, etc... Then consider the reality that most of that top superstar talent is never going to sign with most of the remaining teams even with like offers on the table. And no, Ishbia isn't going to buy the team and change that reality with a few high priced FA contracts. At most it would be a sugar high just like the Sox experienced after Reinsdorf signed Fisk, Luzinski, LeFlore and got lucky with Kittle coming up. Yankees, BoSox and Dodgers will, over time, rule as they have for decades. 2005 was a template for trying to win again, but that template does not involve spending silly money on a few star players. It involves building a strong rotation like we had in '05, constructing a reliable bullpen including a Closer, then having a defense that helps them close out games. You can try to buy that kind of team or you can build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 11 minutes ago, tray said: If you remove the top enormous player contracts from the equation, the respective salary costs for each team begin to narrow. Remove Judge Giancarlo, Soto, Ohtani, etc... Then consider the reality that most of that top superstar talent is never going to sign with most of the remaining teams even with like offers on the table. And no, Ishbia isn't going to buy the team and change that reality with a few high priced FA contracts. At most it would be a sugar high just like the Sox experienced after Reinsdorf signed Fisk, Luzinski, LeFlore and got lucky with Kittle coming up. Yankees, BoSox and Dodgers will, over time, rule as they have for decades. 2005 was a template for trying to win again, but that template does not involve spending silly money on a few star players. It involves building a strong rotation like we had in '05, constructing a reliable bullpen including a Closer, then having a defense that helps them close out games. You can try to buy that kind of team or you can build it. Or can try to build a team but add a couple stars in free agency. And when the Ishbia’s take over, they will be one of the richest ownership groups in baseball and will be able to make some bold splashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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