Heads22 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think some people are confused thinking we want to move Matt. I don't want to. But Sale and Crain have made it so that it's a move that we can make this year without being hurt tremendously while still helping us moving forward. I love Matt, but, again, he's going to turn 35 and is a one pitch pitcher. Edwin Jackson is not coming back next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The reason you don't give up Jackson and Thornton AND a prospect for Rasmus. In this market, Quentin, Jackson, and Thornton could possibly be the top 3 pieces available to contending teams. This is a market the Sox should control. So too give away two of those assets AND a prospect on a buy low, but good, CF is to blow the Sox control on the market. Offer one of E-Jax or Thornton, plus a prospect not named Reed or Viciedo. In this market for a CF having a down year, in a managers doghouse, and who has lost his starting job, that should be enough when the Sox could flip a Q-Jax package, plus Thornton, for a kingly prize from a team like the Red Sox or Braves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:36 PM) So you dismiss the impact that 4 prospects could make by dealing them separately? I'm not someone who usually demands "character" guys, but this guy just rubs me the wrong way. I don't doubt that our clubhouse is a different environment and that we have no idea how he'd fit in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (T R U @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) haha, I cant tell if your responses are legit or not.. this is like the 4th one ive seen where it just had a hilarious mocking vibe to it It's getting ridiculous really (not his post just those types). The best left handed reliever/set-up man in the game prior to this season is "just another hard throwing lefty." I think 98-99% of the posters here would make this trade in an instant, but damn, stop selling Thornton short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:38 PM) I think some people are confused thinking we want to move Matt. I don't want to. Correct. I think people here are now arguing just to argue. I think I've only seen one or two posters who wouldn't do this deal. (and one of them was because of Addison Reed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 03:34 AM) he's 24, was the #3 prospect in the NL going into last year. That's not an accident. His OPS last season was .859. you seriously think you can get him for a 2 month rent-a-player in Jackson, or a 35 year old reliever. you REALLY think that? you don't understand baseball if that's the case. Yes because his manager hates him. You ever heard of the Rios situation? It could be the same thing. So don't overpay for him. His stats this year are pretty ordinary to lousy. By this logic, maybe we should deal Beckham for some amazing prospects cause he's young and has potential too. Edited July 25, 2011 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:47 PM) CF and 2B aren't considered 'offensive' positions. So I don't know where you're going there. I still think there's hope for Gordon. I never said he should be exiled or some s***. I've been very disappointed in his play for the last year in a half. I, like the entire fanbase, thought we had a star on our hands. The surest bet since Frank Thomas. So far, we've all looked foolish. But he's still young enough that you can still hold on to hope. Would I trade Gordon for the right package? Sure. Would I trade Gordon for Carlos Beltran? f*** no. CF and 2B aren't considered "offensive positions'? Maybe not on the Sox but throughout baseball history they most certainly are. Your 5-tool outfielders are usually center or right fielders. Reinsdorf's management has just skewed fans into believing all sorts of nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:42 PM) Yes because his manager hates him. You ever heard of the Rios situation? It could be the same thing. So don't overpay for him. His stats this year are pretty ordinary to lousy. By this logic, maybe we should deal Beckham for some amazing prospects cause he's young and has potential too. This is the same manager who didn't call up Rasmus in 09 when rosters expanded even though he'd hit .330 over the previous couple months in the minors, calling out the kid in the media saying he wasn't ready. LaRussa can be a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 03:49 AM) This is the same manager who didn't call up Rasmus in 09 when rosters expanded even though he'd hit .330 over the previous couple months in the minors, calling out the kid in the media saying he wasn't ready. LaRussa can be a dick. True, I'd be for acquring him as long as we can dump Rios somehow. Platooning isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:59 PM) True, I'd be for acquring him as long as we can dump Rios somehow. Platooning isn't the answer. Ok there is no way were going to be able to dump Rios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) He already platoons with Daniel Descalso. No he doesn't. Today is the second game since July first Freese hasn't started, and all but one of those starts has been at 3rd base. Descalso has played more SS than anywhere else since Freese came off the DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 How does acquiring Rasmus make this team better? Now, or in the future. Maybe it's just me, but Rasmus reminds me an awful lot of Rios, who I absolutely HATE. One good season does not a great player make. That's all he's had. One good season. His first season was MEH. This season is MEH. Have Sox fans not learned a f***ing thing about overpaying for flash in the pan players? What do you do with Rios, if you make this trade? Who sits? Adding Rasmus and keeping Rios does nothing to improve this team. Adding Rasmus only improves this team if he doesn't turn out to be Rios PART 2. I don't do this trade unless they want JUST Jackson. Thornton and Jackson? No, sorry. Get bent. The biggest problem with this team is the garbage player we have in CF right now. Get rid of him, somehow, anyhow, and we improve immediately. BRIAN ANDERSON would be an upgrade in CF right now. How pathetic is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Paulie4Pres @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 12:02 AM) How does acquiring Rasmus make this team better? Now, or in the future. Maybe it's just me, but Rasmus reminds me an awful lot of Rios, who I absolutely HATE. One good season does not a great player make. That's all he's had. One good season. His first season was MEH. This season is MEH. Have Sox fans not learned a f***ing thing about overpaying for flash in the pan players? What do you do with Rios, if you make this trade? Who sits? Adding Rasmus and keeping Rios does nothing to improve this team. Adding Rasmus only improves this team if he doesn't turn out to be Rios PART 2. I don't do this trade unless they want JUST Jackson. Thornton and Jackson? No, sorry. Get bent. The biggest problem with this team is the garbage player we have in CF right now. Get rid of him, somehow, anyhow, and we improve immediately. BRIAN ANDERSON would be an upgrade in CF right now. How pathetic is that? Colby Rasmus can, much more easily, be a 4-5 WAR player than can Alex Rios because he has tremendous power and pretty damn good speed. He has his struggles against left handed pitching, but adding more power from the left side of the plate is not a bad thing. I also think if he were to be traded, he would perform better simply by getting out of that clubhouse in St. Louis where he seems to be extremely unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 11:19 PM) No he doesn't. Today is the second game since July first Freese hasn't started, and all but one of those starts has been at 3rd base. Descalso has played more SS than anywhere else since Freese came off the DL. My bad, I was thinking they platooned. Didn't realize Descalso played shortstop too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Paulie4Pres @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 06:02 AM) How does acquiring Rasmus make this team better? Now, or in the future. Maybe it's just me, but Rasmus reminds me an awful lot of Rios, who I absolutely HATE. One good season does not a great player make. That's all he's had. One good season. His first season was MEH. This season is MEH. Have Sox fans not learned a f***ing thing about overpaying for flash in the pan players? What do you do with Rios, if you make this trade? Who sits? Adding Rasmus and keeping Rios does nothing to improve this team. Adding Rasmus only improves this team if he doesn't turn out to be Rios PART 2. I don't do this trade unless they want JUST Jackson. Thornton and Jackson? No, sorry. Get bent. The biggest problem with this team is the garbage player we have in CF right now. Get rid of him, somehow, anyhow, and we improve immediately. BRIAN ANDERSON would be an upgrade in CF right now. How pathetic is that? Greatpost. I don't know how everybody isn't in full agreement with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Im pretty sure ive made it clear i wouldnt do this deal unless its part of a fire sale, but that would only come down from Reinsdorf. kenny would never allow himself to believe he failed at his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:00 PM) Ok there is no way were going to be able to dump Rios Can we repeat this another 4 billion times so some people get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 12:05 AM) Colby Rasmus can, much more easily, be a 4-5 WAR player than can Alex Rios because he has tremendous power and pretty damn good speed. He has his struggles against left handed pitching, but adding more power from the left side of the plate is not a bad thing. I also think if he were to be traded, he would perform better simply by getting out of that clubhouse in St. Louis where he seems to be extremely unhappy. This clubhouse doesn't show any signs of rehabilitating players that are unhappy elsewhere. The Sox are the end of line for mental projects. The Oakland Raider of MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 02:02 AM) Greatpost. I don't know how everybody isn't in full agreement with you. Because some people know who Colby Rasmus is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:49 PM) This is the same manager who didn't call up Rasmus in 09 when rosters expanded even though he'd hit .330 over the previous couple months in the minors, calling out the kid in the media saying he wasn't ready. LaRussa can be a dick. Sounds familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 03:00 AM) You do the deal and don't look back. Maybe it was because I was a big fan of his as a prospect, but I LOVE Colby Rasmus. And for those saying he is Alex Rios, only in underachieving talent. Rasmus isn't lazy, has better plate discipline, not to mention cost controlled and is only 24 (I will say Rios is the better fielder though). Both were considered "bad attitude" guys (as well as A.J.) at one time too. Rasmus, Viciedo, Beckham, Sale, (maybe Morel for his defense) is a nice, cost controlled, building block with other guys the sox see fit to build around as well. I agree. Of course depending on what the cost is. I'm still of the mind that if the Sox somehow get Rasmus, that Carlos also will be dealt. For the reason that the sox do need to get young, cost controlled building blocks, at whatever spots they can. And if the sox traded Jackson and Quentin, they need to get those building blocks. Rasmus would at least look the part of a "building block", esp. if he returns to his 2010 form. Besides Viciedo, the sox position player minor league talent looks real thin. If Carlos can net the sox 2 pieces for the major league roster now-say a position player and a pitcher, with a prospect, the overall effect of the Jackson and Quentin trades would be minimal for this year. Yet would set the sox up for the next 3-4 years. The sox can be "sellers" without sacrificing this season. Which is still salvageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I liken Rasmus to Matt Kemp. He had a very good year, struggled mightly, and look how he bounced back this year. Thornton can't close, we all know that. If the price was Thornton and Reed, it should be a done deal. Reed may be a legit prospect but he' still a middle relief guy. The Sox bullpen will be fine with Crain, Sale, and Santos as the main guys. If Atlanta would take Rios for Lowe, which is very doubtful, that would be a done deal as well. Then there is the Q for Beachy rumor. I guess I could see Atl doing 1 of these 2 options. But no way they do both. They are right in the thick of things and won't be trading 2/5 of their rotation mid-season. I don't care how of good prospect they have, teams in contention don't do that. Jackson is the wildcard. I've liked him, and the acquisition, from day 1. I would only trade him for a pretty good package. I can't imagine the Yankees are confident with Colon and Freddy regardless of how they've pitched. Maybe we could the Red Sox and Yankees into a bidding war and one of them overpays with either of their top C propsects. It's doubtful but Jackson is the best SP out there. I think the chances of happenning: Jackson and Reed- Rasmus: probably the most likely at 25% Thornton/Reed-Rasmus: 15% Q/Beachy: 15% Jax to Yanks/ Red Sox: 5% Rios to anyboby: 1 out of a million If the Sox want to win this year. I still think the player they should get is Aramis Ramirez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:36 PM) So you dismiss the impact that 4 prospects could make by dealing them separately? I'm not someone who usually demands "character" guys, but this guy just rubs me the wrong way. Could make. Odds are they won't. Just look at some of the blockbuster packages of "prospects" that have been dealt over the last 5 to 10 years. Give me a guy who is on the cusp, versus a package of guys who aren't even here yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:38 PM) I think some people are confused thinking we want to move Matt. I don't want to. But Sale and Crain have made it so that it's a move that we can make this year without being hurt tremendously while still helping us moving forward. I love Matt, but, again, he's going to turn 35 and is a one pitch pitcher. Edwin Jackson is not coming back next year. If there is one thing we seem to have a surplus of right now, it is left handed hard throwers. No you don't look to deal Matt, but if you can get your starting CF for the next 10 years, with many of them being cheap, you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) Yikes... I don't quite get it why no wants to look at the value of pitching in this market right now... I don't quite get it why you don't understand the value of Colby Rasmus now and in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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