scenario Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Cards fans can complain all they want about the perceived value of Rasmus, etc. But they significantly increased their chances of winning the NL Central, this year, with this move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) An absolute piss poor use of resources by this team, which has become an increasingly alarming trend with this front office. Very true. If he's busting up the team now it makes no sense being that he was afraid to bring up Viciedo for so long. They needed to at least try that move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) If it is indeed Shelby Miller and not Trevor Miller as originally posted, he was the 19th overall pick by the Cardinals in 2009, and apparently their top prospect coming in to that year. That was a joke. No chance in hell that would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) I saw they had some nice lower level bats, anything worth taking? He loves Domingo Santana, but is more impressed with the arms in the system than the bats. I guess it depends on who the Sox would be dealing to Philly. He also loves Jesse Biddle. Not sure much of their good talent is near ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) I think I like the trade, but I also think it is part of a larger plan. We traded away an under-performing Teahen and an extra underperforming starter in E-Jax, saving the team $10M or so over the next couple years, which gives room for other moves, extensions, etc. We get a better than average late inning reliever in Frasor, and a decent starting pitching prospect in Zach Stewart. You can see the plan from here. The team probably improves a bit now or stays the same, gives Rios a kick in the rear he so desperately needs (De Aza is going to take most playing time in CF), and saves a bunch of money. Acquiring Frasor means they can trade Thornton, who is in high demand, and the Sox already have multiple good lefty relievers (and, just my view, I think Thornton will fall off a cliff soon). De Aza up, and Viciedo in the wings, means they can trade TCQ if they get the right offer, which would also save big money and I think Viciedo can be as good as TCQ anyway. Ozzie gets a speedy leadoff guy in De Aza to replace Juan Pierre, who I think is a free agent after this year (someone can correct me here if wrong). The Sox are still just as competitive this year, and better set next year, with more room to do things like re-sign Buehrle. But if they trade Danks or Floyd, that's saying they are done in 2011. That is a white flag signal. Next year's rotation would be : Buehrle Peavy Danks/Floyd (whomever is not traded) Humber Stewart/Sale/Axelrod competition Still looks pretty damn good. If Sale starts, then Hector Santiago becomes the LOOGY in the pen in 2012. I doubt this is the last trade this week for the Sox. Thornton hasn't been anything special this year. I doubt anybody will give up much for him. He was horrid early and bad as recently as last night. Maybe we can get a minor league catcher for him who can actually hit. Edited July 27, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) That was a joke. No chance in hell that would happen. 55 year old LOOGY it is, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 So bucket, you're saying that the Sox basically weren't interested in Rasmus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I like how we ditched Teahen's contract in this deal, but if adding Matt Thornton to what we already gave up would have netted us Colby Rasmus, I don't know WTF Kenny is/was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Zach Stewart better be something, or else we basically gave up Dan Hudson for Jason Frasor... This deal is KW cleaning up his own mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Someone made a great point earlier...Reinsdorf clearly respects the opinion of TLR. If TLR told him that Rasmus is uncoachable, then no way would JR bring in another sketchy personality after the Rios debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) I like how we ditched Teahen's contract in this deal, but if adding Matt Thornton to what we already gave up would have netted us Colby Rasmus, I don't know WTF Kenny is/was thinking. Apparently Rios has scarred the franchise for life. Morons. Even if Rasmus flopped, you wouldn't have anywhere close to the financial obligations that you do Rios. You could either trade him or non-tender him. Where's the risk? Wait. We're waiting for Jordan Danks and Jared Mitchell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Ok, Stewart seem's like a nice get. He's there #3 prospect in a good farm system, so no qualms there. The fact that it's taking E-Jax and relievers to get Colby...I don't like. AA is a masterful GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) Zach Stewart better be something, or else we basically gave up Dan Hudson for Jason Frasor... This deal is KW cleaning up his own mess. Dan Hudson AND David Holmberg. I don't know why people keep forgetting about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 06:21 PM) Zach Stewart better be something, or else we basically gave up Dan Hudson for Jason Frasor... This deal is KW cleaning up his own mess. That's like burning down the house because you're out of clean dishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) Zach Stewart better be something, or else we basically gave up Dan Hudson for Jason Frasor... This deal is KW cleaning up his own mess. Stewart is a decent, not great, prspect. But this perspective you are taking is ridiculous. Yes, the Hudson/Jackson trade was bad. That has absolutely nothing to do with what decisions KW makes after the fact. Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) Dan Hudson AND David Holmberg. I don't know why people keep forgetting about him. I didn't. I just didn't feel like including his name in there as he's made no major impact as of right now. If there really was an offer for the Sox to get Rasmus, I will be PISSED. Because AA basically played Kenny. AA is a hell of a GM. He's buying low on great talent (Escobar, Morrow, etc.) and he's getting good returns from them thus far. I'm willing to bet that Rasmus will turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) Stewart is a decent, not great, prspect. But this perspective you are taking is ridiculous. Yes, the Hudson/Jackson trade was bad. That has absolutely nothing to do with what decisions KW makes after the fact. Zero. I'm not saying that trade affected this decision at all. I'm just stating what might actually be the end result of the Jackson trade. What I mean when I said Kenny is cleaning up his mess had more to do with him ditching Teahen's contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 06:21 PM) Zach Stewart better be something, or else we basically gave up Dan Hudson for Jason Frasor... This deal is KW cleaning up his own mess. one of his messes. He's made many. Time for Kenny Williams to go to the Blue Jays or the Cardinals or the Chattanooga Lookouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:25 PM) I didn't. I just didn't feel like including his name in there as he's made no major impact as of right now. If there really was an offer for the Sox to get Rasmus, I will be PISSED. Because AA basically played Kenny. AA is a hell of a GM. He's buying low on great talent (Escobar, Morrow, etc.) and he's getting good returns from them thus far. I'm willing to bet that Rasmus will turn it around. Not every buy-low turns out, I think we've seen that first hand. And I liked Holmberg the best out of that trade, I hate Huddy's arm action and think he's a shoulder injury risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Rios is not untradeable, KW could have him gone in five minutes if he called up the Angels and offered to swap him for his former teammate. The question is what bad contract are you willing to take back in exchange for Rios? I still think Michael Young would be a possibility given that the Rangers want a CF so they can avoid the wear and tear on Hamilton, especially if you would send them some pitching as well. Young and Rios both had $40MM left on their deals, though Young's deal is a year shorter. That may be less of a possibility now with Beltre hurt but the Rangers have moved Chris Davis back to third so there is a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) Stewart is a decent, not great, prspect. But this perspective you are taking is ridiculous. Yes, the Hudson/Jackson trade was bad. That has absolutely nothing to do with what decisions KW makes after the fact. Zero. Thank you. Seeing posts stating that the Sox gave up Hudson for Stewart makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (shakes @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:13 PM) He loves Domingo Santana, but is more impressed with the arms in the system than the bats. I guess it depends on who the Sox would be dealing to Philly. He also loves Jesse Biddle. Not sure much of their good talent is near ready. Lets say we are dealing an all-star OF'er plus a good pen arm. What would be a good return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) Lets say we are dealing an all-star OF'er plus a good pen arm. What would be a good return? What do you know? Current all-star OFer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) Not every buy-low turns out, I think we've seen that first hand. And I liked Holmberg the best out of that trade, I hate Huddy's arm action and think he's a shoulder injury risk. Well, Kenny already made half the trade for Rasmus already, except he got an RP and a prospect back in return instead of a CFer who has 4-5 WAR talent (as he showed last season). I'm not mad that we traded Jackson or Teahen (I think everybody's happy his contract is gone), but if we could have gotten Rasmus by adding Matt Thornton to the offer, I just don't know what to say anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 halladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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