Who would you vote for AL MVP?

[IlliniKrush]

I voted King Felix. I know Trout will probably win, but Felix is doing some things on the mound that are unparalleled in history, while Trout is having your run-of-the-mill great year.

 

I can see a lot of writers voting for Felix & Kershaw and running with the story. The MLB OPS is the lowest its been in 22 years at the moment, so why not give it to the two pitchers most responsible?

 

/can of worms

Because they have their own award.

[chw42]

The only reason Trout didn't win in 2012 and 2013 was because his team missed the playoffs. Now that his team has the best record in baseball, I would say he is a lock to win it this year.

 

He didn't win last year cause Cabrera had one of the best offensive seasons in the past 10 years and Cabrera won the triple crown the year before.

 

It didn't have much of anything to do with making the playoffs, it had everything to do with Cabrera putting up offensive numbers the voters couldn't turn down.

 

I didn't agree with Cabrera winning it in 2012, but I can't fault the voters for voting for him since he won the Triple Crown. I didn't mind him winning it last year even though Trout out-WAR'd him by quite a bit.

Edited August 29, 2014 by chw42

[chw42]

I don't think we have to worry because this is probably his year. The Angels will make the playoffs and that'll be that.

 

Although it would be extra hilarious if writers fall so in love with the KC story that they give it to Alex Gordon, with defensive metrics as the justification.

 

I don't expect a bunch of old people to take defensive metrics seriously. Even I can't take his UZR this year all that seriously. I mean, Gordon's a good LFer, but not +25 runs good.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Both players are having legit MVP quality seasons, but the reason that Trout is going to rightfully win it is because the Angels are in 1st place with a 80-53 record and the Sox are in 4th place with a 60-73 record. If the records were flip flopped Abreu would have a much better shot and probably win it.

Edited August 29, 2014 by lasttriptotulsa

[Y2Jimmy0]

He didn't win last year cause Cabrera had one of the best offensive seasons in the past 10 years and Cabrera won the triple crown the year before.

 

It didn't have much of anything to do with making the playoffs, it had everything to do with Cabrera putting up offensive numbers the voters couldn't turn down.

 

I didn't agree with Cabrera winning it in 2012, but I can't fault the voters for voting for him since he won the Triple Crown. I didn't mind him winning it last year even though Trout out-WAR'd him by quite a bit.

 

 

Trout still was the better player last year.

[Rowand44]

He didn't win last year cause Cabrera had one of the best offensive seasons in the past 10 years and Cabrera won the triple crown the year before.

 

It didn't have much of anything to do with making the playoffs, it had everything to do with Cabrera putting up offensive numbers the voters couldn't turn down.

 

I didn't agree with Cabrera winning it in 2012, but I can't fault the voters for voting for him since he won the Triple Crown. I didn't mind him winning it last year even though Trout out-WAR'd him by quite a bit.

Eh I'd bet that if you flipped the Angels and Tigers in the standings the last few years then trout would have won at least 1 MVP. Not saying it's right but I bet that's the case.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Rowand44

[shysocks]

Because they have their own award.

That's what I was talking about with the can of worms thing and probably a debate for a different thread. Suffice to say, I've never had a problem with deserving pitchers winning/being considered for MVP.

 

 

I don't expect a bunch of old people to take defensive metrics seriously. Even I can't take his UZR this year all that seriously. I mean, Gordon's a good LFer, but not +25 runs good.

I agree about the old people. Not likely.

[chw42]

Trout still was the better player last year.

 

Yeah, but I found it more justified than when Cabrera won it the year before. Trout actually out-hit Cabrera in 2012, he didn't last year.

[chw42]

Both players are having legit MVP quality seasons, but the reason that Trout is going to rightfully win it is because the Angels are in 1st place with a 80-53 record and the Sox are in 4th place with a 60-73 record. If the records were flip flopped Abreu would have a much better shot and probably win it.

 

They're about equal offensively, but when you take defense and base-running into account, Trout is way better. That's the objective way of looking at it.

 

However, the voters don't always look at it that way and I have to assume that if the roles were reversed, Abreu would be a much bigger threat.

[Leonard Zelig]

That the MVP has been dumb and arbitrary in the past isn't a reason to keep it dumb and arbitrary now

 

Anything that people vote on is arbitrary.

[Kyyle23]

i like that there are 2 "either or" poll answers

[cabiness42]

Anything that people vote on is arbitrary.

 

So true. We should just use WAR to choose our next President and Congress. Voting clearly isn't working.

[chitownsportsfan]

1) Mike Trout

2) Jose Abreu

 

------

 

Next question.

[LDF]

1) Mike Trout

2) Jose Abreu

 

 

pretty much this is the winner Trout.

[Jose Abreu]

Abreu's average keeps rising. .315 now.

Edit- There's another hit. .316 now.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Jose Abreu

[BaconOnAStick]

Abreu now leads Trout in every meaningful offensive category (incl WRC+ and woba) except OBP (Trout by .001) and, obviously, stolen bases.

[BaconOnAStick]

Check that, they are tied in OBP.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Abreu now leads Trout in every meaningful offensive category (incl WRC+ and woba) except OBP (Trout by .001) and, obviously, stolen bases.

 

....and then you remember that defense and baserunning exist.

[BaconOnAStick]

Baserunning, sure. I'll give you that.

 

But this PREMIUM DEFENSIVE POSITION REPLACEMENT LEVEL crap has to stop. Any player who can hit like Abreu holds tremendous value, I'd go so far as to say unequaled value. Abreu is the only player, regardless of position slugging above .600. Not only that, he's the only one even close. He's the only player in baseball that has even a remote chance of an OPS over 1.000. He leads MLB in wOBA and WRC+ too, lack of baserunning and all.

 

It doesn't matter what position Abreu plays, he is cramming much more offense than anyone else in baseball into one spot in the lineup. There are plenty of teams that are not getting Abreu like production out of their 4 and 5 hitters combined (totally unverified claim). Don't give me the "well you see Trout plays center and the average center fielder can't hit near as well as the average first...", Abreu so far out classes what anyone in baseball does with the bat arguments over positional semantics are worthless.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Baserunning, sure. I'll give you that.

 

But this PREMIUM DEFENSIVE POSITION REPLACEMENT LEVEL crap has to stop. Any player who can hit like Abreu holds tremendous value, I'd go so far as to say unequaled value. Abreu is the only player, regardless of position slugging above .600. Not only that, he's the only one even close. He's the only player in baseball that has even a remote chance of an OPS over 1.000. He leads MLB in wOBA and WRC+ too, lack of baserunning and all.

 

It doesn't matter what position Abreu plays, he is cramming much more offense than anyone else in baseball into one spot in the lineup. There are plenty of teams that are not getting Abreu like production out of their 4 and 5 hitters combined (totally unverified claim). Don't give me the "well you see Trout plays center and the average center fielder can't hit near as well as the average first...", Abreu so far out classes what anyone in baseball does with the bat arguments over positional semantics are worthless.

 

I'm not saying Abreu has an offensive advantage over Trout because he plays 1B versus CF.

 

I am saying Trout is INCREDIBLY more valuable on defense than Abreu is. The worst defensive CF will have more value than the best defensive 1B.

 

Some people may argue that batting is 50% of a player, defense is about 35% and baserunning is 15%. You are talking about half the equation going to Abreu by a reasonable margin (batting), and then you are talking about the other half going to Trout by a MILE (defense and baserunning). Obviously that's not scientific percentages, it's just another way to think about where value may come from in all 3 aspects.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Chilihead90

[BaconOnAStick]

What's the difference between defense at 35% and fielding at 15%?

[chw42]

Baserunning, sure. I'll give you that.

 

But this PREMIUM DEFENSIVE POSITION REPLACEMENT LEVEL crap has to stop. Any player who can hit like Abreu holds tremendous value, I'd go so far as to say unequaled value. Abreu is the only player, regardless of position slugging above .600. Not only that, he's the only one even close. He's the only player in baseball that has even a remote chance of an OPS over 1.000. He leads MLB in wOBA and WRC+ too, lack of baserunning and all.

 

It doesn't matter what position Abreu plays, he is cramming much more offense than anyone else in baseball into one spot in the lineup. There are plenty of teams that are not getting Abreu like production out of their 4 and 5 hitters combined (totally unverified claim). Don't give me the "well you see Trout plays center and the average center fielder can't hit near as well as the average first...", Abreu so far out classes what anyone in baseball does with the bat arguments over positional semantics are worthless.

 

No, it can't. Because if you stick Abreu out in CF, he's going to cost you games.

 

It takes a specific set of skills to play a good CF at the ML level. It takes a lot less to be a decent 1B.

 

Also, when you take park factor into account, Trout actually has a higher wRC+ than Abreu despite having a slightly lower wOBA.

 

So basically, Abreu = Trout offensively and Trout >>> Abreu in everything else. And you're telling everyone here that we're arguing about worthless semantics...lol.

Edited August 30, 2014 by chw42

[thxfrthmmrs]

Baserunning, sure. I'll give you that.

 

But this PREMIUM DEFENSIVE POSITION REPLACEMENT LEVEL crap has to stop. Any player who can hit like Abreu holds tremendous value, I'd go so far as to say unequaled value. Abreu is the only player, regardless of position slugging above .600. Not only that, he's the only one even close. He's the only player in baseball that has even a remote chance of an OPS over 1.000. He leads MLB in wOBA and WRC+ too, lack of baserunning and all.

 

It doesn't matter what position Abreu plays, he is cramming much more offense than anyone else in baseball into one spot in the lineup. There are plenty of teams that are not getting Abreu like production out of their 4 and 5 hitters combined (totally unverified claim). Don't give me the "well you see Trout plays center and the average center fielder can't hit near as well as the average first...", Abreu so far out classes what anyone in baseball does with the bat arguments over positional semantics are worthless.

 

I think there a bit too much homerism in this post. The difference between Abreu and Trout's wOBA and wRC+ is miniscue compared to the difference between their WAR, despite the fact that Trout actually has a -7 UZR this year, and also the gap between their individual team success is also significant.

 

The media will also sway toward Trout because he's overdue for the award, while Abreu hasn't really been getting any hype as the best player in baseball. I expect Trout to win by a landslide, unless Abreu somehow wins the Triple Crown

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

What's the difference between defense at 35% and fielding at 15%?

 

I meant 15% baserunning.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Baserunning, sure. I'll give you that.

 

But this PREMIUM DEFENSIVE POSITION REPLACEMENT LEVEL crap has to stop. Any player who can hit like Abreu holds tremendous value, I'd go so far as to say unequaled value. Abreu is the only player, regardless of position slugging above .600. Not only that, he's the only one even close. He's the only player in baseball that has even a remote chance of an OPS over 1.000. He leads MLB in wOBA and WRC+ too, lack of baserunning and all.

 

It doesn't matter what position Abreu plays, he is cramming much more offense than anyone else in baseball into one spot in the lineup. There are plenty of teams that are not getting Abreu like production out of their 4 and 5 hitters combined (totally unverified claim). Don't give me the "well you see Trout plays center and the average center fielder can't hit near as well as the average first...", Abreu so far out classes what anyone in baseball does with the bat arguments over positional semantics are worthless.

I understand your meaning. If all else is equal how is a 1st baseman supposed to win an MVP over a slick fielding , good baserunning CF's or SS's ? Why should a 1st baseman have to hit so much better than everyone else to win it ? I'd like to see the breakdown of winners by position . Where do 1st baseman rank ? I know most years voting was done before sabremetrics.