Dick Allen Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) No more minor contracts with invites to spring training! They are spending that $189 million! If you ever learned how to read my posts it would be incredible. But this is along the lines of Keppinger, and Belisario and Downs and Paulino, except a little larger. It isn't a player who has had a lot of success. He has been around forever, and he will be paid based on 2014. I'll bet anyone Surkhamp is better than Duke in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) Playing devil's advocate to raise a point here. Is it double standard that we constantly use WAR to grade players nowadays, but when it comes to actually paying the players, we aren't thrilled to pay $10 mil for a 2 WAR player but are fine with $5 mil for a 1 WAR player? Even without looking at WAR, Miller is still a 8th inning/ closer material while Duke is more of a 7th/8th inning guy. If you want to argue about years here, Miller will be 33 at the end of a 4 year deal and Duke will be 36 at the end of this deal. Miller would also cost at least $25 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 My first reaction was "meh" and I certainly won't be surprised in the game threads when he becomes known as Scott Downs 2.0. He's definitely not KW's pick, since he doesn't throw the ball through a brick wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) If you ever learned how to read my posts it would be incredible. But this is along the lines of Keppinger, and Belisario and Downs and Paulino, except a little larger. It isn't a player who has had a lot of success. He has been around forever, and he will be paid based on 2014. I'll bet anyone Surkhamp is better than Duke in 2015. I'll bet you that Downs, er, Duke....is more valuable in WAR than Gordon Beckham. Double or nothing? Usually the White Sox are unearthing these guys at the rates the Brewers paid, under a million. Something about this one is scary. Maybe it's Hahn's recent history with anyone but Abreu/Eaton...and then you can throw in guys like Noesi, Guerra and Putnam who combined are going to be a lot more valuable IMO at a fraction of the cost. Edited November 18, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm glad we signed someone, I'm not thrilled with the deal though. But there was to be no cheap bullpen signings. I just imagine there will be one year he's a bargain and 2 years we want to trade him for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Hopefully the difference here is that the White Sox believe that what he changed last year is both significant and sustainable. I get what you're saying, and I agree in premise -- but at least with this guy we have reason to believe he legitimately made a change that raised his true talent level. It's a story we have heard before. Guy has a big year, and has found it. Maybe it has happened before, but he DOUBLED his career k-rate at age 31. Has anyone A. Ever done that, and B. Sustained it for a few years? His 2014 was the outlier of all outliers. If it was a 1 year deal with some kind of option, fine. But 3? Even Wil Oh Man had a decent year once. Edited November 18, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) I'll bet you that Downs, er, Duke....is more valuable in WAR than Gordon Beckham. Double or nothing? Don Cooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Too lazy to go back and quote the posts, but Wite's posts about pitch usage and the other talks of him changing his delivery last year has taken me from meh to somewhat excited. I'd still love one of Robertson, KRod, Janssen, Soriano, Romo, or Miller to close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) My first reaction was "meh" and I certainly won't be surprised in the game threads when he becomes known as Scott Downs 2.0. He's definitely not KW's pick, since he doesn't throw the ball through a brick wall. No duke throws the ball at the wall and it bounces back and causes some injury to him and his out for the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:14 PM) Too lazy to go back and quote the posts, but Wite's posts about pitch usage and the other talks of him changing his delivery last year has taken me from meh to somewhat excited. I'd still love one of Robertson, KRod, Janssen, Soriano, Romo, or Miller to close. Casey Janssen's a FA? Why has he not been brought up at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 If Zach Duke like relievers get $5 million a year for 3 years, the White Sox, whether they have done it before or not, will be paying a reliever $10 million in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Wimpy will love the signing more than anyone I remember years back thinking Duke was going to be something special, I think he one hit the cub or something. This is an overpay for a need but he should retain a decent value over the life of his contract and can be moved easily if he produces and if he sucks it is not the worst thing. My thoughts are the Sox struck quick as Miller's price tag is escalating. Also could a Coop cutter thing that they like. Edited November 18, 2014 by Harry Chappas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) I'll bet anyone Surkamp is better than Duke in 2015. Edited November 18, 2014 by Andy the Clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 He was an all-star in 2009 ... at 11-16 with a 4.06 ERA and a 4.24 WHIP as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I like the signing. Bullpen arms figured to be the biggest premium this winter. Sounds like our scouting department played a huge role here and I'm okay with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Miller would also cost at least $25 more. Point is, Miller is better, and could be 5 WARs better according to WAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:14 PM) Don Cooper. You must HATE the White Sox because you're betting on our newest free agent acquisition to fail. Where have I heard that one before? So somehow hoping with your heart for good 'ol boy Gordon Beckham is better than just being another version of Marty34 and taking the counter-argument to everything that Hahn/KW decide to do because you have at least a 50% likelihood of being correct? Why are you a White Sox fan, lol? Edited November 18, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) If you ever learned how to read my posts it would be incredible. But this is along the lines of Keppinger, and Belisario and Downs and Paulino, except a little larger. It isn't a player who has had a lot of success. He has been around forever, and he will be paid based on 2014. I'll bet anyone Surkhamp is better than Duke in 2015. I'll take that bet a hundred times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) You must HATE the White Sox because you're betting on our newest free agent acquisition to fail. Where have I heard that one before? So somehow hoping with your heart for good 'ol boy Gordon Beckham is better than just being another version of Marty34 and taking the counter-argument to everything that Hahn/KW decide to do because you have at least a 50% of being right? Why are you a White Sox fan, lol? Dang, how did I forget that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) He was an all-star in 2009 ... at 11-16 with a 4.06 ERA and a 4.24 WHIP as a starter. One of those years the White Sox absolutely tattooed him, maybe it was 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) You must HATE the White Sox because you're betting on our newest free agent acquisition to fail. Where have I heard that one before? So somehow hoping with your heart for good 'ol boy Gordon Beckham is better than just being another version of Marty34 and taking the counter-argument to everything that Hahn/KW decide to do because you have at least a 50% of being right? Why are you a White Sox fan, lol? You have some fascination with me. Would you like an autographed picture to hang in your room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Don Cooper special. It pays to be an effective LHP out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:17 PM) <!--quoteo(post=3078775:date=Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM:name=Dick Allen)-->QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) <!--quotec-->I'll bet anyone Surkamp is better than Duke in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) Don Cooper special. It pays to be an effective LHP out of the pen. Oh...Hey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I like the signing. Can't be any worse than Will Ohman or Scott Downs or Donnie Veal. I can't imagine what Miller is asking for in this market. This will be bargain compared to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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