Jay Bruce

[Eminor3rd]

There's just no argument for moving Quintana, IMO. The math doesn't work out. He is exactly what we need MORE of, and he comes at the lowest possible salary. Any deal involving him opens up a hole as big as the one it closes.

[bmags]

I'll just basically say that I'd prefer they avoid trading Quintana under any circumstances, but will reserve judgment on that.

 

Agreed.

[Chisoxfn]

I know one thing. Bruce for Q would be very bad for the Sox. Bruce and Latos for Q is intriguing but Latos is a FA at the end of the year, isn't he? Or is he under control for 2 years total? I really have a hard time justifying a trade of Q where we aren't getting a young, cost controlled superstar back. I will say that trade(Bruce / Latos) makes the Sox better next year, but I don't know that it makes them better long term. I think I would rather just have Q and sign someone and be happier with that in comparison.

[cabiness42]

I agree that trading Q is troublesome, I was just trying to find something that made some bit of sense based on bucket's preliminary info.

 

If the Sox trade Q for a package involving Bruce or any other bat, I think it signals that the Sox believe that all the free agents we've been discussing (Cabrera, Rasmus, Sandoval, Laroche) are all way overpriced to the point that they are forced into this in order to improve the lineup.

 

I still hope it doesn't happen, though getting both Bruce and Hamels would soften the blow a bit.

[LDF]

I agree that trading Q is troublesome, I was just trying to find something that made some bit of sense based on bucket's preliminary info.

 

If the Sox trade Q for a package involving Bruce or any other bat, I think it signals that the Sox believe that all the free agents we've been discussing (Cabrera, Rasmus, Sandoval, Laroche) are all way overpriced to the point that they are forced into this in order to improve the lineup.

 

I still hope it doesn't happen, though getting both Bruce and Hamels would soften the blow a bit.

 

good point i would like to add that the sox may think

what is available really doesn't fit in the sox big picture

[southsider2k5]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sik60b

 

Jerry Crasnick · @jcrasnick

 

21st Nov 2014 from TwitLonger

 

In response to a @Ken_Rosenthal report that #reds have had early trade talks about Jay Bruce, agent Matt Sosnick said the club did, indeed, propose a contract extension this summer. "It is true that the Reds made Jay two offers during the season,'' Sosnick said. "The fact the deal didn’t get done had nothing to do with Jay's desire to remain a Red for life, which is still the case. It was more about his desire to make sure that contract talks didn’t become a distraction during the season. But Jay still greatly appreciated the offers.'' Bruce is in the middle of a six-year, $51 million contract that pays him $12M in 2015 and $12.5M in 2016 and includes a $13M club option for 2017. He played on a bad knee last season and hit .217 with 18 homers and a .654 OPS -- all career lows. Bruce turns 28 in April. If the Reds moved him now, it's fair to say they would be trading him at the absolute ebb of his value.

[southsider2k5]

More on Bruce

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/jay-bruce-bottoms-out/

[southsider2k5]

Early. Revisiting talks. Might take Q +

 

By the way, I have to say Kudo's. Way to get this out there before anyone was talking about Jay Bruce. There might be some trying to grab you by the ankles and pull you down, but don't let them bother you. We appreciate the news.

[Dunt]

By the way, I have to say Kudo's. Way to get this out there before anyone was talking about Jay Bruce. There might be some trying to grab you by the ankles and pull you down, but don't let them bother you. We appreciate the news.

 

^

[LDF]

 

after thinking of this long and hard, i am coming to a conclusion

that the sox may need to do this trade. but my problem is, unlike

talking about the Mets, Dodgers or even any other team who need

to do a salary dump, the Reds really don't have to. I mean, they are

not in a urgency mode to do it.

 

am i reading this the right way??

[Balta1701]

after thinking of this long and hard, i am coming to a conclusion

that the sox may need to do this trade. but my problem is, unlike

talking about the Mets, Dodgers or even any other team who need

to do a salary dump, the Reds really don't have to. I mean, they are

not in a urgency mode to do it.

 

am i reading this the right way??

The Reds would be stupid not to do a trade centered around Bruce and Quintana as the main parts.

[LDF]

The Reds would be stupid not to do a trade centered around Bruce and Quintana as the main parts.

 

ok then let me ask you this, is it not reasonable to expect more from

the Reds, or am i overvaluing Q??

[Dick Allen]

The Reds would be stupid not to do a trade centered around Bruce and Quintana as the main parts.

If Q, let alone Q+ was offered for Bruce, Jockety would have said yes before Hahn's shrooms wore off.

 

There were Jay Bruce is available stories hours before this thread was created.

 

In fact, Rosenthal's column even says preliminary discussions,

 

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/reds-at...-payroll-112014

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dick Allen

[hogan873]

ok then let me ask you this, is it not reasonable to expect more from

the Reds, or am i overvaluing Q??

No, you're not overvaluing him at all. Aside from being a very good LH pitcher, he is very cheap and under team control for several years. I think that if the Reds want Q and the Sox want Bruce, as Bucket said, a third team would likely have to be involved to make it work.

 

Personally, I don't see a deal that makes sense unless the Sox get back Bruce and another very good pitcher who is under team control for a while.

[Balta1701]

ok then let me ask you this, is it not reasonable to expect more from

the Reds, or am i overvaluing Q??

if Jose Quintana were a free agent right now there's a good chance he'd get a contract that rivals Lester, my guess would be in the 7/$150 range.

 

If he repeats his last season next year, then he would start being a guy you could legitimately talk about as a $200 million candidate if he could have hit FA right then.

 

We've got him locked up for like $20 million. That's the level of value we need to get back to trade him - a guy who is an all star right now and is under team control for a long time.

[BlackSox13]

Bruce is a good hitter and the Sox could surely use him but to be honest, if the Sox are actually considering trading Q then I would hope it would be for young core players. f*** it, call the Dodgers and tell them Alexei and Q for a package built around all three of Pederson, Urias and Seager.

 

That said, just keep Q.

[ptatc]

Wow - you mean it will only take Quintana and a top prospect to land a high K hitter with a .654 OPS!

 

The love of declining veterans is getting sillier by the minute.

.654 OBP is not good. Nor is 159 strikeouts

Hahn would belong in an asylum if he gave Avi or Montas for Bruce, much less both.

Spare parts only.

How does one bad injury filled year constitute a "declining player."

 

If you want power you need to deal with the high K rates. The rampant PED era is gone.

[harfman77]

Chicago ---> Cincinnati

Jose Quintana

 

Chicago ----> Philadelphia

Chris Beck

 

Cincinnati ----> Chicago

Jay Bruce

 

Philadelphia ----> Chicago

Cole Hamels + cash

 

Cincinnati ----> Philadelphia

Prospects

 

 

Why would Cincinnati trade Jay Bruce and simultaneously give up prospects that would speed up the re-building process they would be starting? There is no way on earth that the Sox are getting Jay Bruce AND Cole Hamels AND cash for Q and Chris Beck.

 

The Phillies are not eating any cash in a Hamels deal, they will get three to four A level prospects for him or they will hold him.

 

 

[Lillian]

The reluctance to trade a young, attractively cost controlled, very good pitcher is understandable. However, conceptually it might make sense for the right package.

The Sox are in an enviable position of having lots of payroll flexibility. Many teams are desperately in need of moving salary. That means that the Sox have a tremendous amount

of leverage in negotiations with any such team. Taking on a relatively large contract is something that the Sox can easily do. As long as the value is in excess

of what the free agent market offers, that might be a viable strategy.

 

Why not try to find a player, or two, who could fill some Sox needs, and consider trading the precious commodity of a cost controlled asset like Quintana?

Rodon will likely become the #2 starter, within the next 2 seasons. That would make the third southpaw expendable, providing the Sox can find a #3, RH starter to take his place, while at the same time,

improving the balance of the rotation.

Again, the organization has the luxury of being able to take on significantly more salary.

 

If the front office could fill two major holes, eg; a middle of the order LH Bat, and a #2, or #3 RH Starting pitcher, in exchange for Quintana, that seems reasonable. Of course, it would necessarily increase

payroll, as moving salary commitments would be one of the other team's primary motives, in making such a trade. However, that is not an obstacle for the Sox.

In fact, that is the point. Payroll flexibility could arguably be considered an asset, which they can afford to trade.

So, what kind of deal can you amateur GMs envision, that could accomplish such objectives?

Edited November 21, 2014 by Lillian

[chw42]

I like Bruce, but there's no way in hell I'd trade Quintana for him, let alone Quintana plus other assets.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

No thanks.

[Whisox05]

I have to image it would be quintana plus just for bruce. Bruce has 3 yrs on his contract. The Cardinals paid for 1 yr of Heyward and 2 yrs of Walden with 4 yrs of miller and 6 yrs of jenkins. Can't imagine what the red would want for bruce. Tho I can't believe the reds have latos, leake, cueto and Simon all going into free agency next yr. That's sucks to lose 4 starting pitchers all at once.

[GreenSox]

I have to image it would be quintana plus just for bruce. Bruce has 3 yrs on his contract. The Cardinals paid for 1 yr of Heyward and 2 yrs of Walden with 4 yrs of miller and 6 yrs of jenkins. Can't imagine what the red would want for bruce. Tho I can't believe the reds have latos, leake, cueto and Simon all going into free agency next yr. That's sucks to lose 4 starting pitchers all at once.

 

Heyward is a much better ballplayer than Bruce and while not coming off of a good year, not a catastrophic year either. Jenkins is an A ball pitcher - yea, he has several years of control just like most A ball pitchers.

The Cardinals also have surplus pitching and a strong farm and can afford to make moves like this that just tap off an already excellent team. They also have a reasonable believe that they can extend Heyward.

That's why I want to trade Alexei and his 2 years of control.

 

The White Sox are full of holes. Williams appears impatient but I hope Hahn holds him back. 2005 is 2005 (and a pitching/defense team), but the org underperformed during most of Williams' tenure.

[ChiSox59]

I have to image it would be quintana plus just for bruce. Bruce has 3 yrs on his contract. The Cardinals paid for 1 yr of Heyward and 2 yrs of Walden with 4 yrs of miller and 6 yrs of jenkins. Can't imagine what the red would want for bruce. Tho I can't believe the reds have latos, leake, cueto and Simon all going into free agency next yr. That's sucks to lose 4 starting pitchers all at once.

 

Quintana is a far more valuable asset. It really isn't even close.

[witesoxfan]

I have to image it would be quintana plus just for bruce. Bruce has 3 yrs on his contract. The Cardinals paid for 1 yr of Heyward and 2 yrs of Walden with 4 yrs of miller and 6 yrs of jenkins. Can't imagine what the red would want for bruce. Tho I can't believe the reds have latos, leake, cueto and Simon all going into free agency next yr. That's sucks to lose 4 starting pitchers all at once.

 

Shelby Miller isn't anywhere near as good as Jose Quintana and, at their peaks, I'd say Heyward is slightly better than Bruce. Bruce is coming off the worst season of his career.

 

Frankly, if it were up to me, and they said "we want Quintana," I'd hang up the phone.