The White Sox Looming Decision

[Butter Parque]

This guy gave the White Sox an 8% chance to begin with and now feels the need to pat himself on the back.

 

There is no question the team has been terrible, but as I pointed out yesterday, during the course of a 6 month season, stretches where you lose like this happens to just about everyone. And I would guess if you looked at numbers during these stretches, players numbers are generally awful. I looked and Detroit and KC last year, the 2 teams that made the playoffs. Detroit had a 7-17 stretch, KC had a 9-17 stretch. The 2005 White Sox had a 5-12 stretch and a 7-12 stretch. If the team truly is as bad as they are playing, they have no chance anyway. But to think a team that hasn't homered in almost 2 weeks and has 1 starter with an ERA below 5.00 is what it is, well, I don't agree.

 

Its the way they are bad. Terrible situational hitting, terrible fundamentals, terrible base running, awful defense, awful at-bats, questionable decisions by the manager. it would be considered a fluke if we hadn't seen it before. Fact of the matter is that aside from the bullpen, this is the exact same way this team has been losing since 2013. That's systemic.

 

[shysocks]

Dave Cameron is the smartest guy on the planet. All you have to do is ask him.

He shares the FIGJAM nickname with Phil Mickelson.

 

Or at least he should.

[daggins]

All those guys he mentions have, in fact, been below replacement level, by their metrics. The only reason Avi hasn't been worse is that his BABIP is 100 points above normal.

 

Cameron is unduly smug about a lot of things, but he's certainly right that this isn't a good enough team to compete for a playoff spot.

[flavum]

He shares the FIGJAM nickname with Phil Mickelson.

 

Or at least he should.

 

Before LDF asks, f*** I'm Good, Just Ask Me.

[Greg Hibbard]

It's way too early to make rash decisions.

 

The 2001 White Sox started 8-19 and finished 83-79. At one point in late September, they were 78-72.

 

They weren't ever really in it - but they had high expectations coming off of the 2000 division title, started out worse than anyone could have possibly imagined, and completely turned it around.

 

Had the fifth playoff spot been in play - the 2001 White Sox would have finished just 2 games out of that slot.

 

Let's not talk about the White Sox - let's talk about the field.

 

I see a West and East with every other team besides the frontrunner below .500 at this point.

I see a Detroit that's gone 6-7 in their last 13.

I see a Kansas city that's gone 5-6 in their last 11.

I see a Cleveland and a Minnesota full of holes.

 

Now, let's talk about the White Sox.

 

I see a team playing just about as bad as they possibly can, in terms of fundamentals and errors.

I see a team hitting .242 with an team ERA north of 4.5 - and still just a handful of games under .500 despite that.

 

Folks, we are hitting the bad end of the variance right now, and after this Detroit series - even if we get swept....we have the next 16 games mostly at home ALL against very beatable teams to get fat on - Cincy here, at Milwaukee, at a bad Oakland, vs. Cle and Min at home....

 

Don't close the book on this season until after the May 8-May 24 stretch. I see us going 10-6 there and clawing back into this thing.

[Lillian]

Well, I'm sure not going to b**** about his article. After all, I just posted the same points myself, the last couple of days.

The one thing he didn't say is that the La Roche signing was a bad idea. Other than that, he's probably right.

 

This team is way better than either their record, or most of the individual performances. However, they are not good enough to recover from this hole.

That's the point that we all need to understand. I hope they fix the problems and have a 2 or 3 year run, starting next year.

[RockRaines]

Avi is one of the last players I would list as one of the problems.

[bmags]

My "season in a nutshell" momens:

-Being so pumped about how dynamic having Micah and Eaton on the basepaths at the same time will be. I've seen this happen 3 times with 0 outs, and every time a double play was hit into.

[southsider2k5]

Avi is one of the last players I would list as one of the problems.

 

Yep. Even Melky has started to hit a bit.

[Panerista]

Avi is one of the last players I would list as one of the problems.

All the more reason to move him. It's time to rebuild a la Cubs and Astros.

[bmags]

Nothing would be more comical to me than spending last 5 years showing how superior trying to win on the fly is than complete gut rebuild only to waste all of the talent found during that time to go into a 6 year rebuild.

[3GamesToLove]

Back in the days before unbalanced schedules, we could have pointed to June's interleague run and thought we could get back on track.

 

Something like 2010's 22-7 run.

 

Oh well.

 

?

 

The schedule has been unbalanced since 1969's realignment...long before interleague came around.

Edited May 4, 2015 by 3GamesToLove

[Balta1701]

Nothing would be more comical to me than spending last 5 years showing how superior trying to win on the fly is than complete gut rebuild only to waste all of the talent found during that time to go into a 6 year rebuild.

The problem is that rebuilding on the fly has left us in a position that right now is as bad as we were 2 years ago when we started the most recent attempt at rebuilding on the fly.

[RockRaines]

All the more reason to move him. It's time to rebuild a la Cubs and Astros.

Yeah, do you know how old he is? If you want to go young, he's not one you move.

[bmags]

The problem is that rebuilding on the fly has left us in a position that right now is as bad as we were 2 years ago when we started the most recent attempt at rebuilding on the fly.

 

Even with this garbage season, I feel much more confident with the state of franchise than 2013.

 

I agree that what the cubs did would have been preferable, but I would laugh that we tried to justify this and basically create a lost decade, basically for the almost year of 2012.

[BlackSox13]

All the more reason to move him. It's time to rebuild a la Cubs and Astros.

 

What does a rebuilding team accomplish in trading a 23 yo with plenty of potential? Avi fits the mold a rebuilding team would be looking for; youth, high ceiling and cost controlled. I just don't see a point in trading him.

[bmags]

?

 

The schedule has been unbalanced since 1969's realignment...long before interleague came around.

 

Honestly, everyone on this board knows exactly what that post is referencing, including you yourself. I'm sure you feel very smart right now though.

[Balta1701]

Even with this garbage season, I feel much more confident with the state of franchise than 2013.

 

I agree that what the cubs did would have been preferable, but I would laugh that we tried to justify this and basically create a lost decade, basically for the almost year of 2012.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I don't see this strong future at all. We're going to be stuck with a couple big money guys next year who are even older than this year, maybe breaking in a rushed-as-usual rookie SS, we're going to be down one of our supposed "big 3" starters next year, and at the same time unless we trade someone we've already got $125+ million committed next year assuming they offer arbitration to people, which is already a payroll hike.

 

So to me, no money to spend whatsoever, in fact a very good chance we'll have to trade someone just to cut that payroll down given how this season has started, a team that is either older or relying on rushed rookies, no depth, and the same major long-term holes.

 

Only way I can imagine that changing is if we turn around the poor fundamentals, but alas.

[Dick Allen]

Considering Cameron pretty much runs fangraphs which likes to mention sample size from time to time, I find it odd he can come to total conclusions based on 24 games of role player performance.

[fathom]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I don't see this strong future at all. We're going to be stuck with a couple big money guys next year who are even older than this year, maybe breaking in a rushed-as-usual rookie SS, we're going to be down one of our supposed "big 3" starters next year, and at the same time unless we trade someone we've already got $125+ million committed next year assuming they offer arbitration to people, which is already a payroll hike.

 

So to me, no money to spend whatsoever, in fact a very good chance we'll have to trade someone just to cut that payroll down given how this season has started, a team that is either older or relying on rushed rookies, no depth, and the same major long-term holes.

 

Only way I can imagine that changing is if we turn around the poor fundamentals, but alas.

 

Agreed, and I don't think there's any big impact players in the minor league system now that Rodon has been promoted. Avi showing improvement this year is promising, but the Sox desperately need Eaton to remember how to play baseball. I know someone else has stated this on here in the past, but I really wish the Sox would have used all their resources to try and trade for Josh Donaldson this offseason.

[RockRaines]

What does a rebuilding team accomplish in trading a 23 yo with plenty of potential? Avi fits the mold a rebuilding team would be looking for; youth, high ceiling and cost controlled. I just don't see a point in trading him.

Because there isnt a point.

 

You unload your SS first and foremost if you want to start bring up the youth.

[fathom]

Because there isnt a point.

 

You unload your SS first and foremost if you want to start bring up the youth.

 

IMO, the Sox should be looking to trade Alexei already, especially with the Padres in the market for a SS and showing a willingness to overpay for players.

[Big Hurtin]

Looming decision? Doesn't Majestic manufacture the uniforms?

[Balta1701]

IMO, the Sox should be looking to trade Alexei already, especially with the Padres in the market for a SS and showing a willingness to overpay for players.

Of course, right now "the price we'd normally demand for Alexei" would look like an overpay thanks to his slow start.

[BlackSox13]

Because there isnt a point.

 

You unload your SS first and foremost if you want to start bring up the youth.

Yes sir. The Sox have MI depth so trading Ramirez first makes the most sense, not that Ramirez is easily replaceable. I would be fine with giving Sanchez a shot at SS. This is based on the Sox being out of it by the trade dead line, for now, I take a wait and see approach.

 

If certain Sox players end up increasing their decreased trade value, the Sox may end up playing better baseball because of it ( they should) and change our perspectives on the state of the team.