iamshack Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:58 PM) Ok, the Reed thing makes me wonder, and I want some input from older folks... Back in the day, late 1990s-early 2000s, I was a pre-teen so my actual understanding of prospects was pretty limited, but it seemed like we had a pretty kickass system. Rauch, Reed, Owens, Borchard, Sweeney, Honel, Hummel, Malone, Wells, Fogg, Barcelo...just to name a few. None turned into anything for us, and very few did anything for anyone else. (I admit I may be squeezing together players from different eras too). So, that said, was our farm system ever like this? It was the #1 system right around 2000. Scouting wasn't what it was today, however, and not many of those players turned into much. That system had no Moncada, Jimenez or Kopech either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:01 PM) It was the #1 system right around 2000. Scouting wasn't what it was today, however, and not many of those players turned into much. That system had no Moncada, Jimenez or Kopech either. Scouting is the difference maker here. Advanced metrics and more tools at scouts disposal (hello, HD video) makes scouting a much less exact science. But four elite prospects (I'm counting Robert)? Haven't had that in a long time if ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 07:01 PM) It was the #1 system right around 2000. Scouting wasn't what it was today, however, and not many of those players turned into much. That system had no Moncada, Jimenez or Kopech either. Jon Rauch was the #1 pitching prospect in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Good answers, thanks fellas. Also, am I misremembering individual prospects? Particularly, however I followed them, 13 year old me was certain that Kris Honel and Corwin Malone were going to be phenomenal. Of course, that was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 06:58 PM) Ok, the Reed thing makes me wonder, and I want some input from older folks... Back in the day, late 1990s-early 2000s, I was a pre-teen so my actual understanding of prospects was pretty limited, but it seemed like we had a pretty kickass system. Rauch, Reed, Owens, Borchard, Sweeney, Honel, Hummel, Malone, Wells, Fogg, Barcelo...just to name a few. None turned into anything for us, and very few did anything for anyone else. (I admit I may be squeezing together players from different eras too). So, that said, was our farm system ever like this? Late 80s Early 90s had Ventura, Thomas, McDowell, Alvarez, Bere, Cora, Fernandez, Hernandez, all come up within about a five year period. And they packed vets around them when they were ready 94 was setting up to be ridiculous Edit: I thought Cora spent time in the minors after they acquired him but that is incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I think Honel could have been good, he just got injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 07:19 PM) I think Honel could have been good, he just got injured. And scared the white sox away from high schoolers for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 07:01 PM) It was the #1 system right around 2000. Scouting wasn't what it was today, however, and not many of those players turned into much. That system had no Moncada, Jimenez or Kopech either. 2000 Sox top 10: #1 Kip Wells #2 Jon Garland #3 Aaron Myette #4 Joe Crede #5 Jason Stumm #6 Aaron Rowand #7 Matt Ginter #8 Dan Wright #9 Lorenzo Barcelo #10 Mark Buehrle That's actually not bad. Getting a Garland, Crede, Rowand and Buehrle out of your top 10 is pretty damn good. Of course, points docked for Danny Wright, statistically one of the worst pitchers of all time given how many innings he threw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Yeah, looks like Malone imploded in 2002 and Honel in 2004... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 06:58 PM) Ok, the Reed thing makes me wonder, and I want some input from older folks... Back in the day, late 1990s-early 2000s, I was a pre-teen so my actual understanding of prospects was pretty limited, but it seemed like we had a pretty kickass system. Rauch, Reed, Owens, Borchard, Sweeney, Honel, Hummel, Malone, Wells, Fogg, Barcelo...just to name a few. None turned into anything for us, and very few did anything for anyone else. (I admit I may be squeezing together players from different eras too). So, that said, was our farm system ever like this? You never know. That wave of prospects didn't turn out to be much; that's a big reason 2005 wasn't sustained much past then. On the other hand, the Sox had a wave of young players between 1995 and around 2000/01 that was terrific: Mike Cameron, Ray, Durham, Magglio Ordonez, Mark Buehrle, Carlos Lee, Joe Crede, Aaron Rowand, Greg Norton, James Baldwin, Chad Bradford, Jon Rauch, It was light in starting pitching, and Williams spent most of 2001-2005 getting it fixed. Most of these guys weren't even on the 2005 team, but the talent pool was rich back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 07:25 PM) Yeah, looks like Malone imploded in 2002 and Honel in 2004... There's definitely a conflation of seasons. 2001 is a hot spot: 2001 #1 Jon Rauch #2 Joe Borchard #3 Joe Crede #4 Matt Ginter #5 Dan Wright #6 Lorenzo Barcelo #7 Brian West #8 Aaron Rowand #9 Josh Fogg #10 Jason Stumm #11 Aaron Myette #12 Gary Majewski #13 Jeff Liefer #14 Rocky Biddle #15 Corwin Malone 2002: #1 Joe Borchard #2 Jon Rauch #3 Corwin Malone #4 Matt Guerrier #5 Joe Crede #6 Tim Hummel #7 Kris Honel #8 Miguel Olivo #9 Dennis Ulacia #10 Aaron Rowand #11 Edwin Almonte #12 Matt Ginter #13 Brian West #14 Casey Rogowski #15 Wyatt Allen Man, I really liked Hummel and Rogo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Barcelo broke too cause he was freakin electric at one point as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. Edited July 14, 2017 by miracleon35th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:02 AM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. My experience was the exact opposite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. Every single report has said the opposite. He would have taken a much lesser deal if it wasn't the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:07 PM) My experience was the exact opposite Ya, the consensus on this one is definitely that the Sox won it. Much like the Eaton deal, I love it from the Sox perspective but the team trading for our guy is getting a severely underrated player and asset on the national level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Haven't met a single Sox or cub fan mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Cubs/White Sox trade podcast http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/cubs...954TXtAbxXA4.97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. Hahn grew up a Cubs fan. The Quintana trade gets the Cubs into the 2017 Playoffs. I figure after a couple of years of 100 losses the White Sox will show Hahn the door. He will then be hired by Epstein working for the cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 09:29 PM) Hahn grew up a Cubs fan. The Quintana trade gets the Cubs into the 2017 Playoffs. I figure after a couple of years of 100 losses the White Sox will show Hahn the door. He will then be hired by Epstein working for the cubs. This is more of a stretch than Jake Burger being signed with Rondo's savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 06:02 PM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. Tanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Casey Rogowski...wow that is a name i havent heard in ages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:36 PM) Casey Rogowski...wow that is a name i havent heard in ages The Sox are very good at AAAA 1B, I imagine most teams are but I still believe in Rogo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:44 PM) The Sox are very good at AAAA 1B, I imagine most teams are but I still believe in Rogo. I was looking up Jeff Liefers stats the other day to compare to Davidson. Dude had a GREAT year in 2002 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. So what are the available alternatives to the fifth best prospect in baseball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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