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Manny: Enter the Panic Room

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I think manny is waiting for this thread count to get closer to the total number of millions he’s going to make in his next contract before he signs 🙂

in all seriousness I can’t see this dragging on too much longer probably reaching a decision early next week by the way things are looking

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50 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

at some point in this saga Hamlet will be typed out in a thread.

Alas poor Yolmer, I knew him well.

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52 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

This all has the feeling of a few years back when some were thinking we were going to sign Cespedes *and* Gorden. There were folks spoofing Rosenthal's Twitter name and "breaking" fake news, we were all up deep into the night refreshing the feed, "Rabbit" had almost enough inside information to suggest a signing...ahh good days, good days!

Crazy how that seems like forever ago but it was only 3 offseasons ago.

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21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Alas poor Yolmer, I knew him well.

Unfortunately, at the time of Shakespeare and Marlowe, there were no orange Gatorade buckets...perhaps we can start rewriting the modern-day version.  

Or do it up all Great Gatsby style as a musical.

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14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Unfortunately, at the time of Shakespeare and Marlowe, there were no orange Gatorade buckets...perhaps we can start rewriting the modern-day version.  

Or do it up all Great Gatsby style as a musical.

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow
Creeps in this petty place from day today
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
the way to dusty death
Out, out brief candle
Life's but a walking shadow
A poor player that struts and frets its hour upon the stage and is heard no more
It is a tale told by an idiot
Full of sound and Fury

Signifying nothing

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11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow
Creeps in this petty place from day today
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
the way to dusty death
Out, out brief candle
Life's but a walking shadow
A poor player that struts and frets its hour upon the stage and is heard no more
It is a tale told by an idiot
Full of sound and Fury

Signifying nothing

At this rate, we can read all of Faulkner’s major works and still not miss anything of significance...

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13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow
Creeps in this petty place from day today
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
the way to dusty death
Out, out brief candle
Life's but a walking shadow
A poor player that struts and frets its hour upon the stage and is heard no more
It is a tale told by an idiot
Full of sound and Fury

Signifying nothing

Well done, but that’s Macbeth.  Hie, get thee to a nunnery!

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Alright, I just powered through 30 pages or so of this shit and am now convinced the Machado sweepstakes are nearing an end.  The Yankees are officially out at the same time a mystery team conveniently enters the fray.  I don’t care what anyone says, this is a two horse race between us and the Phillies.  Also, I still maintain that 8/$280M is the magic number.  Give Machado at least 8 years and a record breaking AAV (Balta - I’ve had a bit too many White Claws so check my math) and I think he signs.  And like raBBit said, I trully believe this ends by Wednesday if not sooner.  Unlike Harper, Machado is not going to be a game changer off the field which is greatly restricting the size of his market.  With the Phillies meeting with Harper tomorrow, now is the time for the Sox and Machado’s camp to get this thing done and I really think it happens soon.

But the fun doesn’t stop there.  I actually believe Jon Morosi wasn’t kidding when he said the Sox might be interesting in Machado & Harper months ago.  Despite my pivot towards Manny in the past week, there is zero doubt in my mind that Harper is the player this franchise truly needs.  And I 100% believe that our ownership group & front office also agree with that sediment, especially with a new TV deal in which they own an even larger stake in and which relies solely on White Sox baseball for a big chunk of the year.  No longer can they cake off those fat Cubs ratings during the summer and their partners aren’t exactly providing riveting products at the moment.  NBCSportsChicago needs a star and as talented as Manny Machado is he simply doesn’t fit the billing.

Now, the question is can the Sox actually pull off two whales?  I posted some numbers in the “Harper + Machado?” thread that IMO proves it’s most definitely possible to sign both of them and still field a quality team.  To me, it all comes down to whether or not there is another team out there that is going to do something stupid.  If someone is prepared to go 10/$400M, then we simply have no chance after adding Machado.  But what teams are there?  This Nationals talk is complete BS IMO.  This is the same ownership group that has killed multiple trades over money, including a Robertson trade involving us.  All of sudden they’re going to blow the luxury tax out of water and enter unprecedented territory as a three time offender?  No way that fucking happens and they are nothing more than a name mystery team.  

Who else does that leave?  The Yankees have already said they’re out.  he Dodgers just don’t make sense to me.  He’s not a great fit based on their current needs, they can’t realize the full value of the intangibles he brings to the table, and the contract he’ll demand certainly doesn’t fit Friedman’s MO.  The Cubs?  Yeah fucking right.  I’ve been screaming all winter they don’t have the budget to pull this off and that they’d need to move significant salary (i.e. Heyward) to pull this off and that’s not happening.  Maybe some teams like the Padres & Braves are poking around, but I do not see either prepared to go 10 years AND $300M+.  

So after eliminating all the other rumored teams, I truly believe the Phillies are the only real threat for him.  They are a tough read for me, but I do question if they’d go 10 years for Bryce.  I just view a MacPhail led organization to be somewhat conservative and based on the fact they were outbid for Corbin after some tough talk I have reason to be skeptical.  Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked if the Phillies capped out at 8/$280M for Harper.  If so, that would allow the Sox to jump in with something around 10/$330M and provide Boras with the record breaking contract that will be needed to get him to say yes.  It also allows Machado retain his record breaking deal, which should keep both guys happy.  

Look, I’m not making any guarantees here, but I don’t think the stop pursuing Harper if they land Machado and I honestly believe the stars have aligned so perfectly that we have a legit chance to pull off something that would be nearly impossible any other offseason.  I truly believe both whales is a legit possibly.  Feel free to flame away!!

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I'll be happy with one or the other but please not both. It would make sense if the Sox budget was closer to the luxury tax threshold but the reality is the team has never gone above 128M. I'm not saying JR would not approve, just not counting on it. Signing both would bring the payroll to 150M+. Might not be a bad idea to have a few bucks stashed away for when it comes time to try and lock up some of the core talent. Would also be nice to have some wiggle room for future free agents to fill holes later.

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7 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

But the first 4 years you want to blame KW. Provide evidence. I do think one of those first 4 they really were half in half out if that. Not really expecting to contend, but when he was all in, the team was still terrible. Eventually, they will get to the point they were at  those seasons roster strength wise. Why should anyone bank on the result being spectacular?

There are some young pieces in place that should be part of the core for next 5-6 years. It doesn’t take a lot once a few of the top prospects start playing near their full potential, especially if we land a guy like Manny, to make the playoffs. Let’s revisit this after Sox make playoffs in 2020. Maybe we will see you eat a bigger crow this time around.

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I think once Machado is eliminated and sets the market, and let’s assume you’re right and it’s under $300 million...

Then you have to start thinking about all those other teams who need to jolt their fanbases back to life.

So you can start with the Reds and Padres, and go from there.   The Padres have a very similar situation to ours...but they’ll also need to maintain financial flexibility for their young core players starting in that 2021-2024 window.

Possibly having $60-75 million per year (let’s assume the worst case scenario, you have two Heyward’s where you’re saddled with contracts long-term after 3 or 4 year opt-outs expire), it’s pretty much going to limit you to keeping only one guy out of the list of Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech, Cease, Robert or even the upcoming #3 pick from June, 2019.

IF IF IF the new broadcasting rights deal locked in a huge bump up in payments for 15-20 years, then you could withstand those two whale contracts...but if most of the minor league pieces fizzle and you’re left with Heyward/Darvish albatross deals four years from now, you’re really going to be screwed trying to get out of that mess...and looking at lower broadcasting revenues locked in down the road if everything blows up.

The logical thing to do here is assume you’re going to have one or two Bryant’s and Baez’s that you want to lock-in long term, homegrown players that fans have invested their interest in for a significant amount of time and energy (jerseys/merchandising, etc.) before either player reaches free agency.  Those players like Jimenez and Moncada are integral to the long-term viability of this franchise.

And it’s also a pretty strong bet that mystery team on Harper most certainly will be out there in the $320-340 million range, rather than a deal closer to $400-500 million that was previously speculated on months ago before the whole offseason began.

You can take the White Sox and the field...I’ll take Cincy, StL, Washington, SD, Atlanta, LAD, Cubs and Angels (they realize Trout won’t stay) and Giants (no franchise player to identify with after Bumgarner and Posey).

That gives you the White Sox and 20 other teams for Harper against my nine.  Sounds like pretty even odds.  And I left you the Yankees and Red Sox.

And the most important argument of all, one of those deals alone will be almost four times the largest contract in White Sox history.  Now, JR...is suddenly going to change his lifetime character and authorize 8-10x that amount of risk on two players?  I don’t think so.  Older investors usually become more conservative with time, and look to preserve what they have for themselves and their children.  Let’s call it risk mitigation.  I could buy two players like Machado and Harper if the t.v. monies were guaranteed 15-20 years into the future, but it’s only five.  While KW might say go for it, I don’t think that move gets approved...and most front offices would rather spend $500 million on Trout than $600-650 million on Harper/Machado.  It’s just that we know the odds of getting Trout are not in our favor, so the time to act is now or next offseason.  And that’s the final factor, the front office and shareholders want to see one more year of the rebuild progressing before committing all their eggs to just two baskets.

Edited by caulfield12

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https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/01/09/phillies-rumor-manny-machado-race-two-teams/

If the race is down to the Phillies and White Sox, Philadelphia is likely to offer the most money, though they haven’t offered the $300 million deal many predicted, according to reports.

Should Machado chose the Phillies, expect a deal to get done involving Maikel Franco, potentially to the San Diego Padres. They’ve had a long-standing interest in him, and they’re reportedly on standby with Mike Moustakas.

Philadelphia also has a meeting with Bryce Harper in Las Vegas on Saturday. It’s hard to imagine the Phillies making a trip to Vegas if they know Machado is in their back pocket, and signing both players is very unlikely.

 

https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/01/09/phillies-machado-decision-next-week/

While a decision may be coming soon, it’s still unclear who has the lead in the bidding. Levine reported that momentum is building for the White Sox. On the other hand, Philadelphia is preparing another offer for Machado, which should get closer to his reported asking price of $300 million. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com also reported that the Phils are ramping up their efforts for Machado.

Levine pointed out that Philadelphia is likely willing to go 10 years for Machado, several more years than the White Sox are willing to. He also noted that Machado is receiving offers between $25 and $28 million annually. At that annual salary, no one will reach his $300 million asking price.

Edited by caulfield12

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I wonder if I am the only one that would rather have harpchado over trout. The ages....the potential for 10-12 WAR (combined) seasons and the fact that we can trade our outfield prospect depth for other needs just seems better than paying 45-48 million a year for trout. And as great as trout is...Harper still gets equal or more buzz being an inferior player.

Edited by EloyJenkins
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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/01/09/phillies-rumor-manny-machado-race-two-teams/

If the race is down to the Phillies and White Sox, Philadelphia is likely to offer the most money, though they haven’t offered the $300 million deal many predicted, according to reports.

Should Machado chose the Phillies, expect a deal to get done involving Maikel Franco, potentially to the San Diego Padres. They’ve had a long-standing interest in him, and they’re reportedly on standby with Mike Moustakas.

Philadelphia also has a meeting with Bryce Harper in Las Vegas on Saturday. It’s hard to imagine the Phillies making a trip to Vegas if they know Machado is in their back pocket, and signing both players is very unlikely.

 

https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/01/09/phillies-machado-decision-next-week/

While a decision may be coming soon, it’s still unclear who has the lead in the bidding. Levine reported that momentum is building for the White Sox. On the other hand, Philadelphia is preparing another offer for Machado, which should get closer to his reported asking price of $300 million. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com also reported that the Phils are ramping up their efforts for Machado.

Levine pointed out that Philadelphia is likely willing to go 10 years for Machado, several more years than the White Sox are willing to. He also noted that Machado is receiving offers between $25 and $28 million annually. At that annual salary, no one will reach his $300 million asking price.

Interesting that article is from 2 days ago. I wonder if the info is stale. Seems like every few hours there is new info on this. Praying it ends this weekend. 

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18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/01/09/phillies-rumor-manny-machado-race-two-teams/

If the race is down to the Phillies and White Sox, Philadelphia is likely to offer the most money, though they haven’t offered the $300 million deal many predicted, according to reports.

Should Machado chose the Phillies, expect a deal to get done involving Maikel Franco, potentially to the San Diego Padres. They’ve had a long-standing interest in him, and they’re reportedly on standby with Mike Moustakas.

Philadelphia also has a meeting with Bryce Harper in Las Vegas on Saturday. It’s hard to imagine the Phillies making a trip to Vegas if they know Machado is in their back pocket, and signing both players is very unlikely.

 

https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/01/09/phillies-machado-decision-next-week/

While a decision may be coming soon, it’s still unclear who has the lead in the bidding. Levine reported that momentum is building for the White Sox. On the other hand, Philadelphia is preparing another offer for Machado, which should get closer to his reported asking price of $300 million. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com also reported that the Phils are ramping up their efforts for Machado.

Levine pointed out that Philadelphia is likely willing to go 10 years for Machado, several more years than the White Sox are willing to. He also noted that Machado is receiving offers between $25 and $28 million annually. At that annual salary, no one will reach his $300 million asking price.

 

Quote

Chicago has stepped up their game lately by bringing in Machado’s brother-in-law Yonder Alonso and his workout buddy Jon Jay, but is that enough to convince Machado to play for a team years away from contending, something Machado has dealt with most of his career with the Orioles?

Philadelphia gives Machado a chance to win, and although he might not be able to play shortstop after the acquisition of Jean Segura, he’d be a major upgrade over Franco at third.

This writer is so biased he's hard to take even remotely serious. nothing to see here.

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25 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

I wonder if I am the only one that would rather have harpchado over trout. The ages....the potential for 10-12 WAR (combined) seasons and the fact that we can trade our outfield prospect depth for other needs just seems better than paying 45-48 million a year for trout. And as great as trout is...Harper still gets equal or more buzz being an inferior player.

Well, the obvious point is their presence alone hasn’t been enough to guarantee post-season success for either player.

Harper boosts ratings and ticket/merchandise sales, but they still need to get over that 78-82 win range along the way...unless they’re trying to do it in one fell swoop despite the absence of Kopech and likely Cease (at the MLB level) for most of this season.

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Also what is that guy talking about the Orioles were contenders for most of Mannys career and then he was on the dodgers.

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I think that article sums up exactly how I felt when I heard the Yankees news yesterday. 

1. If the Phillies get Harper, then I really believe the White Sox get Machado. 

2. If the Phillies miss on Harper, I think the Phillies will back up the truck for Machado, making him an offer I don’t know if he can refuse.

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7 minutes ago, KnightsOnMintSt said:

I think that article sums up exactly how I felt when I heard the Yankees news yesterday. 

1. If the Phillies get Harper, then I really believe the White Sox get Machado. 

2. If the Phillies miss on Harper, I think the Phillies will back up the truck for Machado, making him an offer I don’t know if he can refuse.

This is what I'm thinking right now, too. Not that I can understand how the Sox could justify allowing another team to outbid them for Machado.

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7 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

This is what I'm thinking right now, too. Not that I can understand how the Sox could justify allowing another team to outbid them for Machado.

If it turns out that the Sox lose out because they would not go over 30 million AAV for Machado, then they will be roasted by the fans.  Especially after all the posturing Rick and Kenny did earlier.

But who knows what they are actually willing to offer.  Hopefully we see soon.

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10 minutes ago, wegner said:

If it turns out that the Sox lose out because they would not go over 30 million AAV for Machado, then they will be roasted by the fans.  Especially after all the posturing Rick and Kenny did earlier.

But who knows what they are actually willing to offer.  Hopefully we see soon.

We’ve heard from numerous people in this thread that the Whitesox are not being cheap here, have a little faith, they didn’t trade for Alonso and sign Jay for nothing just to let manny walk to Philly 

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Both of these guys are going to get stupid money.  It just boils down to whether the Sox will offer it to them, my guess is no.  But I have little faith in this FO to do anything right over the last decade.  Pretty sure they're both going to be overpaid and I dont see Jerry allowing Rick to go all stupid with either player

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Sorry, just having a moment of panic.  Thanks for the reassurance.  I do think Hahn got Alonso and Jay as a kind of tie breaker for a top offer the Sox are going to make.

Ok, I got the good feelings back.  We will have Manny signed by sometime next week!!!!

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