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Sox Officially Sign Edwin Encarnacion (1YR/$12M), Kodi Medeiros DFA

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4 minutes ago, sox71 said:

I think Mercedes gets DFAd. 

That would be a shame. He arguably hit just as good as Collins and Robert in AAA. If you combined Collins with Robert you kind of get Mercedes Walk rate below Collins but higher than Robert . Same big power as both . Higher batting average than both Collins and Robert. OBP % higher than Robert but lower than Collins. Slugging % higher than both of them. OPS, wOBA, and wRC+higher than both of them. K% better than both.

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7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That would be a shame. He arguably hit just as good as Collins and Robert in AAA. If you combined Collins with Robert you kind of get Mercedes Walk rate below Collins but higher than Robert . Same big power as both . Higher batting average than both Collins and Robert. OBP % higher than Robert but lower than Collins. Slugging % higher than both of them. OPS, wOBA, and wRC+higher than both of them. K% better than both.

He's also 27, has 0 mlb PA's and will be in his 9th MiLB season. 

Edited by TaylorStSox

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39 minutes ago, NotHahn said:

Even if he leads the team on OBP? 

There's a fairly good chance that Madrigal is dead last among our starting 9 in OBP next year, and I'm not even one of the Madrigal haters. I don't see any way he gets on base more often than Moncada, Grandal, EE, etc. 

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10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I wonder if the 40 man issues are why the signings haven't been announced?  Obviously teams know we have to remove someone so not sure you could be working on a 2:1 trade or getting a return not requiring 40 man placement.

I don't know why they haven't been announced but with guys like Dylan Covey and Seby Zavala on the 40 man, figuring out who to remove shouldn't be that tough

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Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes in February he will be 27 but he was not exposed to the rule 5 draft so I think they keep him.

Sure. I hope they keep him too. Comparing him to Collins and Robert just based on raw numbers isn't exactly apples to apples. Context matters. 

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15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Sure. I hope they keep him too. Comparing him to Collins and Robert just based on raw numbers isn't exactly apples to apples. Context matters. 

Yes I know that many older players put up great numbers in AAA and are always considered AAAA guys like Ryan Goins did in Charlotte or Palka and Skole.

The difference is this was Mercedes 1st taste of AAA after finally getting to AA this year then to AAA so he didn't have much experience in the upper minors just like Robert. In that respect the context is the same.Sure he can end up another AAAA guy especially considering he's more a DH than anything but the dude sure can hit.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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12 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

There's a fairly good chance that Madrigal is dead last among our starting 9 in OBP next year, and I'm not even one of the Madrigal haters. I don't see any way he gets on base more often than Moncada, Grandal, EE, etc. 

Seems very unlikely IMO.  He had a .377 OBP in the minors last year, driven by a .311 BA, 8.3% BB rate, & nine HBPs.  Steamer has him posting a .337 OBP next year, which ~20 points higher than they project for Robert.  Throw in other semi-low OBP guys like Abreu, Mazara, Eloy, & Anderson and I seriously doubt he finishes last.

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Madrigal finishes in the top 3 OBP on Sox next season, that's my prediction.  I hope our players learn how to walk, we were last in the entire MLB in walks at 378.

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3 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Madrigal finishes in the top 3 OBP on Sox next season, that's my prediction.  I hope our players learn how to walk, we were last in the entire MLB in walks at 378.

It is gonna be all hits and no walks. I won't complain about a 200 hit season, but he swings at EVERYTHING.

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2 minutes ago, Cashman said:

It is gonna be all hits and no walks. I won't complain about a 200 hit season, but he swings at EVERYTHING.

No it really isn't for him. He takes a good number of walks - both in college and last year you've got a guy who walked in over 8% of his plate appearances - that would have been higher than anyone in the White Sox's lineup last year other than Alonso. 

The trick with Madrigal is that when he swings, he puts the ball in play. If pitchers didn't pitch to him, he was happy to take the walk, but you just couldn't put him away with a strikeout.

If Madrigal is going to have a low OBP, then either he's been overwhelmed and overpowered by big league pitching (which seems unlikely), or he's got a very low batting average because of weak contact - which remains possible particularly with better defenders in the bigs, although the second  half of last year argues against that. I'd say there's a good chance his OBP sits something like 50 points above his batting average, wherever that number winds up,

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

No it really isn't for him. He takes a good number of walks - both in college and last year you've got a guy who walked in over 8% of his plate appearances - that would have been higher than anyone in the White Sox's lineup last year other than Alonso. 

The trick with Madrigal is that when he swings, he puts the ball in play. If pitchers didn't pitch to him, he was happy to take the walk, but you just couldn't put him away with a strikeout.

If Madrigal is going to have a low OBP, then either he's been overwhelmed and overpowered by big league pitching (which seems unlikely), or he's got a very low batting average because of weak contact - which remains possible particularly with better defenders in the bigs, although the second  half of last year argues against that. I'd say there's a good chance his OBP sits something like 50 points above his batting average, wherever that number winds up,

270/320/390 with about +5 runs on the bases, +10 runs over an average defender at 2B and over 500 PA should be good for about 2.5 WAR.

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Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

270/320/390 with about +5 runs on the bases, +10 runs over an average defender at 2B and over 500 PA should be good for about 2.5 WAR.

Might not see him slugging .390 since he only slugged .414 in the minors last year including half a season with the juiced ball at Charlotte, but i guess that number depends a lot on what the MLB ball is like next year. 

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1 hour ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

You really think this rebuild would have went anywhere without tearing it down and getting Moncada, Eloy, and Giolito in return?

They used to be called blockbuster trades and you'd remain involved in free agency to maintain/or improve a team as well. I think a couple trades have been dandy and the signing of Robert. I am no expert and can't guarantee anything but I think if I had time to do a thesis on the matter I think there's a chance I could prove a couple blockbuster trades plus international signings plus free agency could conceivably give my team a chance especially in a division in which no teams have a ton of money. The tanking has not provided a lot in terms of stellar draft picks.

Maybe I couldn't. Not saying I'm right. I am saying free agency is providing some huge pieces which always is part of a non tank guy's plan. Don't get upset it's just one person's opinion here.

Edited by greg775

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

Might not see him slugging .390 since he only slugged .414 in the minors last year including half a season with the juiced ball at Charlotte, but i guess that number depends a lot on what the MLB ball is like next year. 

would be an ISO of 120, which might be a tick high but I think he's going to hit about 8-10 HR in the cell next summer.  If they "unjuice" the ball a bit maybe that goes to 5 and he's closer to 270/320/370, which as a plus baserunner and defensive 2B wouldn't be be bad for a rookie.  Obviously I'd be hoping for more of everything (power, patience, average) as he matures.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

 but i guess that number depends a lot on what the MLB ball is like next year. 

Plot twist: Even juicer balls

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10 minutes ago, mqr said:

I don't get this article.  If they are using WAR as the premise to NOT be afraid of the White Sox, then their argument doesn't make much sense to me.  White Sox currently are 2.7 Wins behind the Twins according to Fangraphs (https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team).  I am willing to guess they were far greater than 2.7 wins behind the Twins at this point last year.  I know the offseason isn't over and the Twins will probably sign 1-2 more guys at least, but the Sox may sign some more as well (RP and possibly another RF).

Edited by BFirebird

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14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

They used to be called blockbuster trades and you'd remain involved in free agency to maintain/or improve a team as well. I think a couple trades have been dandy and the signing of Robert. I am no expert and can't guarantee anything but I think if I had time to do a thesis on the matter I think there's a chance I could prove a couple blockbuster trades plus international signings plus free agency could conceivably give my team a chance especially in a division in which no teams have a ton of money. The tanking has not provided a lot in terms of stellar draft picks.

Maybe I couldn't. Not saying I'm right. I am saying free agency is providing some huge pieces which always is part of a non tank guy's plan. Don't get upset it's just one person's opinion here.

We could be getting anywhere from 16-20 WARs next season from the grouping Moncada, Eloy, Giolito, Kopech, Cease and Lopez at a chump change of a couple millions. That is 1/75th of their cost in open market. The free agency spending you mentioned are only made possible having these guys on the roster.

Had we not “tank” by trading away the likes of Sale, Eaton, Q, Melky, etc, none of this would be possible, period.

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33 minutes ago, Cashman said:

It is gonna be all hits and no walks. I won't complain about a 200 hit season, but he swings at EVERYTHING.

Madrigal walked at a 9.7% rate in AAA. Not that bad. 

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49 minutes ago, BFirebird said:

I don't get this article.  If they are using WAR as the premise to NOT be afraid of the White Sox, then their argument doesn't make much sense to me.  White Sox currently are 2.7 Wins behind the Twins according to Fangraphs (https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team).  I am willing to guess they were far greater than 2.7 wins behind the Twins at this point last year.  I know the offseason isn't over and the Twins will probably sign 1-2 more guys at least, but the Sox may sign some more as well (RP and possibly another RF).

I also don't know where he got his numbers from. Who has Grandal as a 2.5 WAR player? 

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6 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I also don't know where he got his numbers from. Who has Grandal as a 2.5 WAR player? 

That's a good question...I didn't even notice that.  He hasn't posted that low of a WAR since 2014.

Edited by BFirebird

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2 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

I wonder if the 40 man issues are why the signings haven't been announced?  Obviously teams know we have to remove someone so not sure you could be working on a 2:1 trade or getting a return not requiring 40 man placement.

The MLB offices are closed for the holidays. I don't think they re-open until January 6th. I don't think anything can officially be announced until then. 

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