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soxfan2014

Jim Bowden Top 50 Prospect List

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14 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Soxtalk can really suck.  You get a little excited about something you read...you post it and then the howling negatives come out of the woodwork to tell you how wrong and stupid you are.  Ok Vaughn isnt Bellinger...hes Frank Thomas 2.0.  Better?  .300 hitter with 30+ homers and 100 walks hitting in a lineup with 4 other superstars. Im gonna go dream somewhere else.  

LOL I thought you meant as a hitter he was like Bellinger. not his all around game since the only thing you cited was the hitting ceiling. But yea I knew you'd get the usual Vaughn is not Bellinger stuff . Actually a lot of people here are penciling Vaughn into the lineup as early as 2021. But I need to see a really good year from him at Birmingham before I get too excited. That's usually where Sox prospects go to die. It's a very pitcher friendly park.

So sorry if I am also raining on your parade but not for the same reasons as the others .

Frank did great at Birmingham , not sure if it was the same park though. 1.068 OPS. I'd be stoked if Vaughn could put up a .900 OPS there in 300 AB's.

Luis Robert had an .880 OPS there in 244 plate appearances.

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3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LOL I thought you meant as a hitter he was like Bellinger. not his all around game since the only thing you cited was the hitting ceiling. But yea I knew you'd get the usual Vaughn is not Bellinger stuff . Actually a lot of people here are penciling Vaughn into the lineup as early as 2021. But I need to see a really good year from him at Birmingham before I get too excited. That's usually where Sox prospects go to die. It's a very pitcher friendly park.

So sorry if I am also raining on your parade but not for the same reasons as the others .

Frank did great at Birmingham , not sure if it was the same park though. 1.068 OPS. I'd be stoked if Vaughn could put up a .900 OPS there in 300 AB's.

Luis Robert had an .880 OPS there in 244 plate appearances.

I thought it was clear I meant as a hitter.  I wasnt talking about his FWAR...I was talking about OPS of 1.000 in the middle of that order.  Its just so exciting....in the last 20 years who was our most exciting hitting prospect?  In 2002 we would have been so excited about Collins the hitter...now we've got Moncado, madrigal, Jiminez, Robert and Vaughn, the batting champ and two plus- hitting vets...the potential is amazing. 

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20 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

My best buddy broke his wrist on a play like that in college and it destroyed his career; a true freshman starting at a top 5 program. Never recovered fully from the injury.

When I saw that, I cringed at his wrist rolling under his body. 

The one thing that worries be about Robert is that he’ll kill himself trying to get to balls that Eloy and Mazara can’t get to because they’re not good defenders. That Mazara trade was a year too late IMO. If the White Sox want to compete they don’t have time to depend on a lottery ticket to see if he finally figures it out. I can see Robert covering for one bad defender, but two of them? That’s too much. 
 

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A could of players drafted after Vaughn are ahead of him in the rankings......

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11 minutes ago, sox71 said:

A could of players drafted after Vaughn are ahead of him in the rankings......

And? Guys could excel up after draft and draft order isn't really black and white. Theres other variables for when a guy goes like a scouting department. Teams could hate a guy and others can love a guy.

Edited by soxfan2014

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57 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I thought it was clear I meant as a hitter.  I wasnt talking about his FWAR...I was talking about OPS of 1.000 in the middle of that order.  Its just so exciting....in the last 20 years who was our most exciting hitting prospect?  In 2002 we would have been so excited about Collins the hitter...now we've got Moncado, madrigal, Jiminez, Robert and Vaughn, the batting champ and two plus- hitting vets...the potential is amazing. 

Nothing is clear here . When you put Vaughn=Bellinger the blinders go on to the rest of your post.

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1 hour ago, sox71 said:

A could of players drafted after Vaughn are ahead of him in the rankings......

Do you think Bowden has personally scouted every prospect on the list?  Hell nah.  He's just a former GM (a poor one) with an opinion.  Just one man's opinion.  Vaughn is a 1B that's going to hit 280/360/500 for the next decade and produce a 3-4 fWAR every year.  He's not a sexy prospect but something would have to really go wrong for him not to be a decent starter from 2022-2030.

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6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Do you think Bowden has personally scouted every prospect on the list?  Hell nah.  He's just a former GM (a poor one) with an opinion.  Just one man's opinion.  Vaughn is a 1B that's going to hit 280/360/500 for the next decade and produce a 3-4 fWAR every year.  He's not a sexy prospect but something would have to really go wrong for him not to be a decent starter from 2022-2030.

That's sexy enough for me...I'll pencil him in for that so he'll be a nice contributor on a run of some very good-great ball clubs on the South Side

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Just now, wegner said:

That's sexy enough for me...I'll pencil him in for that so he'll be a nice contributor on a run of some very good-great ball clubs on the South Side

Solid regulars are going to be needed, there should be plenty of stars as long as Moncada and Robert and Eloy and Gio and so forth stay relatively healthy.  Be nice to get one more solid regular for RF internally.  If not Mazara with a reasonable extension for reasonable production then hopefully one of Basabe/Rutherford/Micker.

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1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Solid regulars are going to be needed, there should be plenty of stars as long as Moncada and Robert and Eloy and Gio and so forth stay relatively healthy.  Be nice to get one more solid regular for RF internally.  If not Mazara with a reasonable extension for reasonable production then hopefully one of Basabe/Rutherford/Micker.

I couldn't agree more...but of course I was one of the few people on this board who really thought Walker would be the solid regular for RF internally.  (I need to let that one go and just root for Mazara).  Now if Adolfo could take a big step forward this year...hoo boy we'd be in business!!

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On 1/17/2020 at 11:15 AM, cjgalloway said:

Holy shit.. I expect all 4.. But not Kopech and Madrigal that high... How is Bowden viewed?

Empty suit

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On 1/17/2020 at 1:23 PM, hi8is said:

If Betts signs I’ll dance naked anywhere you ask me to.

I had a brain fart putting Eloy in right though, for sure. 😆

I am sure RH will be moved to action do to your generous offer.😀

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3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Nothing is clear here . When you put Vaughn=Bellinger the blinders go on to the rest of your post.

It wasn't me...MLB Pipeline said Vaughn was best 1b prospect since Bellinger...maybe best hitting prospect in minors.  Just saying Bellingers bat in the middle of that lineup is awe inspiring.  

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9 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

It wasn't me...MLB Pipeline said Vaughn was best 1b prospect since Bellinger...maybe best hitting prospect in minors.  Just saying Bellingers bat in the middle of that lineup is awe inspiring.  

The best since does not mean they are equal. 

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26 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The best since does not mean they are equal. 

And Alonso had a really nice rookie season...speaking of from Bellinger to Vaughn.

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3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

The best since does not mean they are equal. 

Oh for fuck sake...this is what they wrote...

Highest Ceiling: Vaughn
Not only is Vaughn the best all-around hitter among first-base prospects, he's also on the short list of the best all-around hitters in the Minors. He could produce a .300 batting average, 30 homers and 80 walks on an annual basis.

and let me be clear that would be absolutely nothing like Cody Bellinger, of the Dodgers, or Clay Bellinger of the Yankees, or minor leaguer Cole Bellinger or Orioles shortstop Mark Belanger in any way.  Any similarities by Vaughn to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 

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8 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Oh for fuck sake...this is what they wrote...

Highest Ceiling: Vaughn
Not only is Vaughn the best all-around hitter among first-base prospects, he's also on the short list of the best all-around hitters in the Minors. He could produce a .300 batting average, 30 homers and 80 walks on an annual basis.

and let me be clear that would be absolutely nothing like Cody Bellinger, of the Dodgers, or Clay Bellinger of the Yankees, or minor leaguer Cole Bellinger or Orioles shortstop Mark Belanger in any way.  Any similarities by Vaughn to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 

I read that article. If you want to make the claim that Vaughn could be Bellinger, we can agree on that. But when referencing articles it is important to state the facts of the article. We must keep our opinions separated from them. 

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Where do you think he Vaughn would rank if he wasn't a first baseman?

 

(That's why there are people drafted after him ahead of him to address a previous commenters post)

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It's a really bad comp because Bellinger has played more games in the OF than he has at 1B. Besides that no one should ever take any of these lists seriously.  They have zero relevance whatsoever.  It's just something to get people talking about baseball during the off season.

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On 1/17/2020 at 9:36 PM, michelangelosmonkey said:

Soxtalk can really suck.  You get a little excited about something you read...you post it and then the howling negatives come out of the woodwork to tell you how wrong and stupid you are.  Ok Vaughn isnt Bellinger...hes Frank Thomas 2.0.  Better?  .300 hitter with 30+ homers and 100 walks hitting in a lineup with 4 other superstars. Im gonna go dream somewhere else.  

Don’t be upset or offended.  It’s more of the universally negative view of Bowden and any of his opinions.  He is quite simply not a well respected baseball analyst.  Vaughn can be really good but I won’t simply believe it because Bowden says so.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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On 1/19/2020 at 3:45 AM, scs787 said:

Where do you think he Vaughn would rank if he wasn't a first baseman?

 

(That's why there are people drafted after him ahead of him to address a previous commenters post)

I have no problem calling him he-vaughn. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 7:49 PM, sox71 said:

A could of players drafted after Vaughn are ahead of him in the rankings......

Part of the reason why vaughn is so high is his floor. Yeah other guys have a higher ceiling but the likelihood that vaughn fails completely is very low. At the very least he hits .270 with 25 bombs and is an 1.5 war player with a good chance he hits .290 with 30 bombs and is a 3 war player.

If you compare that to let's say bobby witt he could be a 5 war guy but also could bust in the minors. That risk has to be priced in.

Even bellinger was a lot higher risk his first seasons than vaughn, vaughn had a 16% K rate while cody was like twice that initially. There was a lot of development involved in him getting this good while part of the appeal of vaughn is he doesn't need much developement and can't be messed up by the sox.

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I'm really glad we've established that Andrew Vaughn and Cody Bellinger are not the same person.  Remember when that guy used the equals sign in his post?  Hahaha!  That was so wrong!  Cody Bellinger is an established player and Andrew Vaughn is a prospect!  So much for the equals sign!!!  Looks like they don't "equal" each other at all, hmm?!  They are also different people inside totally different bodies.  They live in different houses.  They even live in different states!  Imagine using an equals sign!  :nono :stick

I get what you're saying, michelangelosmonkey.  Psyched to dream about Vaughn in the lineup for the foreseeable future, and appreciate the difference between quoting a one-sentence blurb from a fluff baseball prospect list and publishing in a peer-reviewed journal.

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