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Tony La Russa named Manager

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Hahn is now in a win win situation. If Sox do well, he can claim he wanted Larussa. If we don’t, he will take credit for the foundation for which he does deserve a lot of the credit and blame jerry for LaRussa. The GM jobs are scarce and all teams are contracting departments so saying f you jerry and quitting likely means he is unemployed and possibly for some time. Other teams will note he kept the company line and didn’t embarrass the owner which helps him down the line. Now the biggest issue will be who has control over the roster and it’s construction. We used to talk about Hahn vs Kenny. Now is it Larussa over or vs both or all three battling. If this fails, the stories later may be epic. It could work if Larussa only has control on the field. His coaching staff may offer clues.  Are they all old Tony buddies or a younger more progressive staff. When did Tony manage without Dave Duncan as  pitching coach?

Edited by BamaDoc
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We are getting Tony L whether or not we like it.  We should focus on how excited we are to find out how the coaching staff lines up.  The players available this offseason at reduced prices should have us in great shape come opening day.  Feels good to look at this in a positive light...especially when nothing is improved by b****ing about it.

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17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Wait, I thought it was Ray who didn't watch games.

I feel like that guy is just making stuff up. Reports that Moncada is eating 50 twinkies a week? Ok chief 🙄.

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21 hours ago, greg775 said:

Look ... politics go both ways. I encourage you to listen to Whitlock and get back to me. There are two sides to ALL political issues. Balta, just because you believe something doesn't mean it's right. There are two opinions on all matters involving politics.

also 

 

Please research Whitlock before using him as an example. Hint, he's not very well loved by the black community and for very good reasons. 

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4 hours ago, pcq said:

Maybe they can just prop Tony up in the dugout while Jirschele serves Koolaid and makes out the lineup. 

Weekend at Tony's!

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1 hour ago, BamaDoc said:

Hahn is now in a win win situation. If Sox do well, he can claim he wanted Larussa. If we don’t, he will take credit for the foundation for which he does deserve a lot of the credit and blame jerry for LaRussa. The GM jobs are scarce and all teams are contracting departments so saying f you jerry and quitting likely means he is unemployed and possibly for some time. Other teams will note he kept the company line and didn’t embarrass the owner which helps him down the line. Now the biggest issue will be who has control over the roster and it’s construction. We used to talk about Hahn vs Kenny. Now is it Larussa over or vs both or all three battling. If this fails, the stories later may be epic. It could work if Larussa only has control on the field. His coaching staff may offer clues.  Are they all old Tony buddies or a younger more progressive staff. When did Tony manage without Dave Duncan as  pitching coach?

I don't think LaRussa ever managed without Duncan. The one thing that would make me feel better about LaRussa is if the purpose is to give Jirschele a higher level of tutelage on the Sox bench for a year or two. Maybe Jirschele could handle the clubhouse minimizing the TLR effect there.

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I love how all of the people who are b****ing about this move have:

1. Never managed a major league baseball game in their lives.

2. Never played major league baseball.

3. Never served as a major league baseball executive 

Yet you all seem to think that: 

A. The person who has managed more than 5,000 games, winning more than 2,700 of them, and who has led more teams to division winning titles, and pennants than the Chicago White Sox have had in their 115+ year history, and just as many World Series titles

- Doesn't know how to manage any more
- Doesn't know how to manage or relate to players
- Doesn't understand analytics
- Doesn't know how to work with a front office, and
- Is going to create clubhouse tension.

B. That AJ Hinch was the slam dunk better choice, even though

- He just spent a year banned from baseball because of his role in perhaps the worst cheating scandall in MLB history
- Won his only WS title when that cheating was in place
- Couldn't lead his team past the Nationals last year even with Gerrit Cole and Justin Verlander (Dusty Baker got within one game of the WS without either of these pitchers)
- Got outmanaged by Dave Martinez, and blew the Series, just like Cash did this year for the Rays, when he went to the bullpen hook for a starting pitcher who was cruising with a lead, only to see his relief pitcher get blown up and give up the tying and winning runs
 

Now, there's no guarantee Tony LaRussa is going to work out, just like there was no guarantee that AJ Hinch or any other managerial choice would. 

But to think the White Sox made some colossal mistake by hiring the most accomplished baseball manager alive today is nothing short of ludicrous, and to hear it from a bunch of neophytes who don't know the first thing about the challenges of the job is rather tiresome. 

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4 minutes ago, VAfan said:

you all seem to think

At least 50% of the board didn't want Hinch dude

Edited by Vulture
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1 hour ago, BamaDoc said:

Hahn is now in a win win situation. If Sox do well, he can claim he wanted Larussa. If we don’t, he will take credit for the foundation for which he does deserve a lot of the credit and blame jerry for LaRussa. The GM jobs are scarce and all teams are contracting departments so saying f you jerry and quitting likely means he is unemployed and possibly for some time. Other teams will note he kept the company line and didn’t embarrass the owner which helps him down the line. Now the biggest issue will be who has control over the roster and it’s construction. We used to talk about Hahn vs Kenny. Now is it Larussa over or vs both or all three battling. If this fails, the stories later may be epic. It could work if Larussa only has control on the field. His coaching staff may offer clues.  Are they all old Tony buddies or a younger more progressive staff. When did Tony manage without Dave Duncan as  pitching coach?

I'll go the opposite way - Rick Hahn is in a lose-lose situation. His job is not to put the best team on the field, his job is to find players that Tony LaRussa wants and who will work with Tony LaRussa, but he's also expected to win somehow. If he tries to do things that Tony LaRussa isn't ok with, he's already lost that fight. So, if the White Sox have success - it's LaRussa redeeming himself with his players. If things don't go well, then Rick Hahn should have done a better job of bringing in Tony LaRussa's players. Management isn't going to blame or fire Tony LaRussa, they'll blame Rick Hahn.

Although, to be fair, he's spent 8 years pulling down 7 figure salaries in the most low-pressure, zero-accountability job in baseball, so I'm really not going to feel that bad for him if he suddenly now gets blamed when things don't work out after he should have gotten that blame for 7 years in a row.

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8 minutes ago, VAfan said:

B. That AJ Hinch was the slam dunk better choice, even though

- He just spent a year banned from baseball because of his role in perhaps the worst cheating scandall in MLB history

At least it's the second worst, because Tony LaRussa's teams were absolutely loaded with people violating federal controlled substance laws openly jabbing needles into each other's butts in order to cheat, and that cheating scandal lasted basically his entire managerial career. 

But for some reason for the LaRussa defenders, that gigantic scandal is forgotten and Hinch's is the worst thing eva!

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

At least it's the second worst, because Tony LaRussa's teams were absolutely loaded with people violating federal controlled substance laws openly jabbing needles into each other's butts in order to cheat, and that cheating scandal lasted basically his entire managerial career. 

But for some reason for the LaRussa defenders, that gigantic scandal is forgotten and Hinch's is the worst thing eva!

To be fair, a lot of MLB players were also doing that at the time, not just the players on his teams.  The flip side is, Hinch was part of one or two teams that were cheating.  Plus he was a straight up cuck when confronted about it.

Dude got off light and shouldn't even have been in a position to manage this year.  MLBs punishment was a joke.

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20 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I love how all of the people who are b****ing about this move have:

1. Never managed a major league baseball game in their lives.

2. Never played major league baseball.

3. Never served as a major league baseball executive 

Yet you all seem to think that: 

A. The person who has managed more than 5,000 games, winning more than 2,700 of them, and who has led more teams to division winning titles, and pennants than the Chicago White Sox have had in their 115+ year history, and just as many World Series titles

- Doesn't know how to manage any more
- Doesn't know how to manage or relate to players
- Doesn't understand analytics
- Doesn't know how to work with a front office, and
- Is going to create clubhouse tension.

B. That AJ Hinch was the slam dunk better choice, even though

- He just spent a year banned from baseball because of his role in perhaps the worst cheating scandall in MLB history
- Won his only WS title when that cheating was in place
- Couldn't lead his team past the Nationals last year even with Gerrit Cole and Justin Verlander (Dusty Baker got within one game of the WS without either of these pitchers)
- Got outmanaged by Dave Martinez, and blew the Series, just like Cash did this year for the Rays, when he went to the bullpen hook for a starting pitcher who was cruising with a lead, only to see his relief pitcher get blown up and give up the tying and winning runs
 

Now, there's no guarantee Tony LaRussa is going to work out, just like there was no guarantee that AJ Hinch or any other managerial choice would. 

But to think the White Sox made some colossal mistake by hiring the most accomplished baseball manager alive today is nothing short of ludicrous, and to hear it from a bunch of neophytes who don't know the first thing about the challenges of the job is rather tiresome. 

Uh.. this is a little awkward... not sure how to tell you but just want to let you know that you have also done none of those things and are also giving your opinion. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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1 minute ago, soulfly said:

To be fair, a lot of MLB players were also doing that at the time, not just the players on his teams.  The flip side is, Hinch was part of one or two teams that were cheating.  Plus he was a straight up cuck when confronted about it.

Dude got off light and shouldn't even have been in a position to manage this year.  MLBs punishment was a joke.

I simply tired hearing about how AJ Hinch is a cheater in a thread where we hired Mark McGwire's manager. If the cheating scandal is disqualifying for Hinch, then the decades of steroid abuse on his teams should be disqualifying for LaRussa. We don't know how many other teams were cheating, but we do know that Tony LaRussa couldn't have possibly cared less about his teams being clean. 

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10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Uh.. this is a little awkward... not sure how to tell you but just want to let you know that you have also done none of those things and are also giving your opinion. 

Retweet.

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3 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I think Stone should be the manager

Stone should be retiring.

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Hinch's cheating scandal is far worse than Larussa's, but I would have hated both hires. Every locker room in baseball has had PED's for at least 40 years. Not every team built an intricate and advanced system to steal signs. Hinch should be banned for life.

 

With that said, I've defended Reinsdorf in the past, but this is indefensible. What a mess of an organization. 

Edited by TaylorStSox

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Stone should be retiring.

I definitely held him in a much higher regard before he started Tweeting. 

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33 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I love how all of the people who are b****ing about this move have:

1. Never managed a major league baseball game in their lives.

2. Never played major league baseball.

3. Never served as a major league baseball executive 

 

"b****ing" about those who are "b****ing", while also *not* meeting these qualifications is cute.

Look at the reaction of not just fans, but of media members and the absolute silence of the players.  The White Sox did make a colossal mistake with this hire and the response shows.

Can La Russa still do the job adequately?  Probably.  Should he have been invited back into the clubhouse to do the job now, today, with this team?  With his own glaring red flags?  Unequivocally No.

 

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46 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I love how all of the people who are b****ing about this move have:

1. Never managed a major league baseball game in their lives.

2. Never played major league baseball.

3. Never served as a major league baseball executive 

Yet you all seem to think that: 

A. The person who has managed more than 5,000 games, winning more than 2,700 of them, and who has led more teams to division winning titles, and pennants than the Chicago White Sox have had in their 115+ year history, and just as many World Series titles

- Doesn't know how to manage any more
- Doesn't know how to manage or relate to players
- Doesn't understand analytics
- Doesn't know how to work with a front office, and
- Is going to create clubhouse tension.

B. That AJ Hinch was the slam dunk better choice, even though

- He just spent a year banned from baseball because of his role in perhaps the worst cheating scandall in MLB history
- Won his only WS title when that cheating was in place
- Couldn't lead his team past the Nationals last year even with Gerrit Cole and Justin Verlander (Dusty Baker got within one game of the WS without either of these pitchers)
- Got outmanaged by Dave Martinez, and blew the Series, just like Cash did this year for the Rays, when he went to the bullpen hook for a starting pitcher who was cruising with a lead, only to see his relief pitcher get blown up and give up the tying and winning runs
 

Now, there's no guarantee Tony LaRussa is going to work out, just like there was no guarantee that AJ Hinch or any other managerial choice would. 

But to think the White Sox made some colossal mistake by hiring the most accomplished baseball manager alive today is nothing short of ludicrous, and to hear it from a bunch of neophytes who don't know the first thing about the challenges of the job is rather tiresome. 

I’ve got bad news for you, but La Russa also won World Series due to cheating.  And I love that you use counting stats to try to make Hinch look bad.  Yeah, Hinch does have less World Series trophies than La Russa, but he has also managed 28 less seasons.  He’s both won more and made more World Series on a per season basis and both him & La Russa have won equally half of their World Series appearances yet you only hold losing one against A.J.  Hinch also has the better lifetime winning percentage for whatever that’s worth.

All that being said, the credentials don’t really matter.  The concerns here center around timing & fit and whether a 76 year old La Russa is the right guy to connect with motivate a young core and to partner with a front office on in-game strategic planning.  There are very obvious reasons to be skeptical that La Russa is going to connect with a bunch of black & brown players (let alone the White ones) given his incredibly old school view on things.  There is also reason to be skeptical that Hahn will have enough influence over La Russa to be able to force Tony to align with the front office on any in-game strategic planning.  There is real risk this quickly becomes the Tony show and that’s the last thing this White Sox team needs.  IMO, now was not the time to get cute and go with polarizing manager, but alas Jerry put his own interests ahead of his front office, players, & fanbase.

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5 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

 

"b****ing" about those who are "b****ing", while also *not* meeting these qualifications is cute.

Look at the reaction of not just fans, but of media members and the absolute silence of the players.  The White Sox did make a colossal mistake with this hire and the response shows.

Can La Russa still do the job adequately?  Probably.  Should he have been invited back into the clubhouse to do the job now, today, with this team?  With his own glaring red flags?  Unequivocally No.

 

But the players have never managed before so fuck their opinions!

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28 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Hinch's cheating scandal is far worse than Larussa's, but I would have hated both hires. Every locker room in baseball has had PED's for at least 40 years. Not every team built an intricate and advanced system to steal signs. Hinch should be banned for life.

 

With that said, I've defended Reinsdorf in the past, but this is indefensible. What a mess of an organization. 

This take bothers me for some reason every time I read it.

1. Players have been stealing signs since the game was invented. Stealing signs is very easy to combat - you change them. 

2. The astros used tech to steal signs, it was wrong and bad. They took the cheating tooooo fa4.

3. Citing 1 player in a clubhouse doing steroids or a couple and comparing it to 80% of a roster is just being convenient. 

The astros took sign stealing - something you try to do as a 12 year old in travel ball - and took it to a real shitty level. The a's took steroids to a level they had never been before. The difference is, i can't change my signs to prevent steroid use. Im totally out of control.

Steroids were significantly worse. Its not even comparable.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

At least it's the second worst, because Tony LaRussa's teams were absolutely loaded with people violating federal controlled substance laws openly jabbing needles into each other's butts in order to cheat, and that cheating scandal lasted basically his entire managerial career. 

But for some reason for the LaRussa defenders, that gigantic scandal is forgotten and Hinch's is the worst thing eva!

The Electronic Cheating Scandal dwarfs the steroid era.  It's not even close. 

Steroids - by some accounts, up to 80% of the players were involved, it was so spread out that almost the playing field W/L advantage was non-existent.

The Electronic scandal was one team that got busted, and it's the one that took the World Series trophy. 

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