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Better than 2020?

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Notwithstanding the additional year of experience, is this team as it stands better than the 2020 version? Additions include TLR, Lynn, Eaton and Hendriks. Subtractions include Renteria, McCann, Dunning, Colome.  

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We had black holes in RF and DH in 2020, and we didn't have anybody we could trust to start game 3 of the playoff series. Adding Lynn automatically makes the 2021 team better. I'm not really sure how this is even a question. Nobody can compare the 2020 and 2021 rosters and say that 2020 was better. It's not even close.

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Yes, we are definitely better than last year.  And you didn’t even mention Katz, and while we shouldn’t him to be our savior, should help a lot.

Edited by Chicago White Sox

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8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

We had black holes in RF and DH in 2020, and we didn't have anybody we could trust to start game 3 of the playoff series. Adding Lynn automatically makes the 2021 team better. I'm not really sure how this is even a question. Nobody can compare the 2020 and 2021 rosters and say that 2020 was better. It's not even close.

I guess it depends on how you gauge the loss of McCann. Agree Lynn an upgrade over whoever we trotted out at #3 last year. Love and prefer Hendriks but hard to improve on Colome's '20 performance. 

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13 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

We had black holes in RF and DH in 2020, and we didn't have anybody we could trust to start game 3 of the playoff series. Adding Lynn automatically makes the 2021 team better. I'm not really sure how this is even a question. Nobody can compare the 2020 and 2021 rosters and say that 2020 was better. It's not even close.

We still have a black hole at DH and its very possible that we still have a black hole at RF too.

That said, I do expect the team to be better. Im not sure the winning percentage will be better than last year as matching the .583 would translate to around 95 wins and I think that's right around where we should be, but the team should still be better even if doesn't show in terms of pure W-L. 

We can expect growth from Robert, the old Moncada, Lynn adding alot of value as well as Kopech and Hendriks. 

I do expect some regression from Keuchel, Abreu and probably Anderson. 

 

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23 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

We still have a black hole at DH and its very possible that we still have a black hole at RF too.

That said, I do expect the team to be better. Im not sure the winning percentage will be better than last year as matching the .583 would translate to around 95 wins and I think that's right around where we should be, but the team should still be better even if doesn't show in terms of pure W-L. 

We can expect growth from Robert, the old Moncada, Lynn adding alot of value as well as Kopech and Hendriks. 

I do expect some regression from Keuchel, Abreu and probably Anderson. 

 

You see Vaughn/Collins as no improvement over EE's .627 OPS?   You think the Adam's won't hit better than Mazara's .589 OPS?  I do agree that the team benefitted from the AL Central schedule last year so they might be quite a bit better and end up with 95 wins.   

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58 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes, we are definitely better than last year.  And you didn’t even mention Katz, and while we shouldn’t him to be our savior, should help a lot.

Ethan Katz is set up to be the biggest failure in White Sox history. I honestly feel bad about the level of hype he has received from the fan base, there is next to no chance he lives up to the hype that has been created around the legend of Ethan Katz.

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In terms of net personnel, Vaughn, Engel and Collins are/were part of the organization in '20 so I'm not counting them as actual additions. Both Eaton and Mazara had rough years in '20 but I like Eaton's chances of bouncing back better than Mazara's.

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Just now, Tony said:

Ethan Katz is set up to be the biggest failure in White Sox history. I honestly feel bad about the level of hype he has received from the fan base, there is next to no chance he lives up to the hype that has been created around the legend of Ethan Katz.

He won’t live up to the hype, but honestly, just getting a modern mind in that role will pay for itself tenfold.  It’s remarkable how bad our young starters have been under Cooper, with the only success story being the guy who reached outside the organization for help from Katz.  If Ethan can get Cease turned around, that alone will pay for his salary.

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1 hour ago, Flash said:

In terms of net personnel, Vaughn, Engel and Collins are/were part of the organization in '20 so I'm not counting them as actual additions. Both Eaton and Mazara had rough years in '20 but I like Eaton's chances of bouncing back better than Mazara's.

You said we had a black hole at DH...Vaughan and Collins and throw Yermin in there as well...had a combined 18 at bats last year...so they should be considered additions...and I would bet any one of them will hit better than .650 OPS this year.    

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Ethan Katz is set up to be the biggest failure in White Sox history. I honestly feel bad about the level of hype he has received from the fan base, there is next to no chance he lives up to the hype that has been created around the legend of Ethan Katz.

If Don Cooper was half as bad as many think, there should be a lot of low hanging fruit.

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Ethan Katz is set up to be the biggest failure in White Sox history. I honestly feel bad about the level of hype he has received from the fan base, there is next to no chance he lives up to the hype that has been created around the legend of Ethan Katz.

Where do you think the actual expectation is (outside of some people joking like they did with "Cooper will fix him").   I feel like he is tasked with turning Cease-Kopech and Crochett into good major league pitchers.   Honestly that's starting with some pretty attractive marble he has to sculpt.   I think if Reylo and Rodon fail...no one will blame Katz.   But I also look at the Houston and Cleveland pitching clinics and there seems to be something to the science of maximizing a pitchers outcomes.   

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1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

You said we had a black hole at DH...Vaughan and Collins and throw Yermin in there as well...had a combined 18 at bats last year...so they should be considered additions...and I would bet any one of them will hit better than .650 OPS this year.    

The black hole reference was not mine (SoxBlanco I believe). What I was driving at is the value of the '21 front office moves. I understand we have young players in the system who we intend to plug in. I'd also have to check but recall McCann and Grandal manned DH role a fair amount of '20. 

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7 minutes ago, Flash said:

The black hole reference was not mine (SoxBlanco I believe). What I was driving at is the value of the '21 front office moves. I understand we have young players in the system who we intend to plug in. I'd also have to check but recall McCann and Grandal manned DH role a fair amount of '20. 

Sorry....you're right Flash.  Still...total DH hitting last year was .588 OPS and pinch hitters were .627.  So just about any warm body should be better than that. 

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Ethan Katz is set up to be the biggest failure in White Sox history. I honestly feel bad about the level of hype he has received from the fan base, there is next to no chance he lives up to the hype that has been created around the legend of Ethan Katz.

It's not just the fanbase. Steve Stone didi him no favors .

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I think that the sox overall are a better team than in 2020 but there are also some regression candidates.

2020 stats/2021 depth Charts projection

Hitters wRC+

1b jose 166/114

2b madrigal 114/97

ss Anderson 142/103

Of eloy 140/128

 

Pitcher era

Keuchel 1.99/4.x

That is some serious regression potential.

 

On the other hand RF and DH should be much improved, moncada should be better and lynn is a big upgrade.

In the pen heuer and marshall will probably regress some but hendricks is a big upgrade.

Overall the offense will probably slightly worse because just everything clicked in 2020 for many guys and the upgrades in RF, DH and 3b are probably not quite enough to offset regressions of jose and Tim but it shouldn't be much worse.

the pen I expect about the same to slightly better and the back end of the rotation should be a lot better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:

I think that the sox overall are a better team than in 2020 but there are also some regression candidates.

2020 stats/2021 depth Charts projection

Hitters wRC+

1b jose 166/114

2b madrigal 114/97

ss Anderson 142/103

Of eloy 140/128

 

Pitcher era

Keuchel 1.99/4.x

That is some serious regression potential.

 

On the other hand RF and DH should be much improved, moncada should be better and lynn is a big upgrade.

In the pen heuer and marshall will probably regress some but hendricks is a big upgrade.

Overall the offense will probably slightly worse because just everything clicked in 2020 for many guys and the upgrades in RF, DH and 3b are probably not quite enough to offset regressions of jose and Tim but it shouldn't be much worse.

the pen I expect about the same to slightly better and the back end of the rotation should be a lot better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have captured my concerns better than I could articulate. In a nutshell...Lynn > Dunning; Hendriks > Colome; Eaton =/> Mazara BUT...who replaces McCann? Seems like a reliance on young, unproven bats (and catcher). My sense is the strength of the '21 Sox will be the bullpen, especially if Bummer returns to form. 

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I can't say for sure if the Sox are improved or worse off. Dylan Cease is probably the most important player that the Sox need to come through. Because I suspect Keuchel will not only regress, but probably somewhat significantly. If he does regress and Case doesn't improve off last year, it might be a really long year for the Sox. It's unfortunate the Sox decided to get cheap with that last SP position.

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Cooper was given a ton of trash, in all fairness.

We also got excellent bullpen results with lots in inexperienced performers last year, for example.  Keuchel had an unexpectedly strong season, and Bummer emerged as a Top 10 AL reliever.

 

For every Reynaldo Lopez, Cease or Rodon, there have been ten Ranaudo’s or Hector Noesi’s.

Dunning was nurtured back after injuries to the point where he became (in)valuable trade bait.

 

The proof will be in the pudding for Katz with those three names again in this year’s rotation, as well as Kopech.

Time will tell.

Edited by caulfield12

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15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Cooper was given a ton of trash, in all fairness.

Cooper was given Lucas Giolito. Lucas had to literally leave the organization, go to his High School coach, and discard everything Cooper and the team tried to implement for naught. 

Always

Be

Coaching

 

The leads aren't weak, you're weak.

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8 hours ago, Tony said:

Ethan Katz is set up to be the biggest failure in White Sox history. I honestly feel bad about the level of hype he has received from the fan base, there is next to no chance he lives up to the hype that has been created around the legend of Ethan Katz.

To be fair, I don't think the average fan is as hyped as the much smaller subset of diehards on here.

 

4 hours ago, Flash said:

You have captured my concerns better than I could articulate. In a nutshell...Lynn > Dunning; Hendriks > Colome; Eaton =/> Mazara BUT...who replaces McCann? Seems like a reliance on young, unproven bats (and catcher). My sense is the strength of the '21 Sox will be the bullpen, especially if Bummer returns to form. 

I get it.  We all liked McCann.  But the backup catcher position is not that make-or-break at all.

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