Andrew Vaughn Article - 3B/OF and Opening Day considerations

[YoYoIsMyHero 504]

54 minutes ago, poppysox said:

With the Covid diagnosis to Jose..splitting 1st. base and DH duties seem a likely use of both players.  Using Moncada as the prototype...I expect Jose to be back soon but very tired on a frequent basis.  

There is no prototype for how Covid affects each person medium-long term

[Dominikk85 491]

11 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

There is no prototype for how Covid affects each person medium-long term

Yeah freddie freeman was reported to have a pretty severe case and he had a monster season while others were affected quite a bit.

[chitownsportsfan 2,652]

I expect Jose to be the opening day 1B and I expect Vaughn to be in the minors until Super 2 passes.

[35thstreetswarm 605]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

With the Covid diagnosis to Jose..splitting 1st. base and DH duties seem a likely use of both players.  Using Moncada as the prototype...I expect Jose to be back soon but very tired on a frequent basis.  

Who knows, but I don't think we need to expect that outcome necessarily -- from my understanding long-lasting symptoms were the exception, not the rule, for someone his age.  Multiple young people in my family have now had COVID and none had any symptoms that lasted more than a few days.

[manbearpuig 1,646]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

I expect Jose to be the opening day 1B and I expect Vaughn to be in the minors until Super 2 passes.

Super 2? Wouldn't that be around June?

[chitownsportsfan 2,652]

4 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Super 2? Wouldn't that be around June?

Yes, and he will not be up before then.  It's just...how it's done.  Players more talented and ready than Vaughn have gone through it.

[SonofaRoache 1,519]

27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yes, and he will not be up before then.  It's just...how it's done.  Players more talented and ready than Vaughn have gone through it.

That's not happening this time around. The Sox want a championship and need him to DH and spell Abreu at 1B the first two months of the season. They also need Vaughn to get his feet wet so that by around July or August, he can be established and ready for the stretch run. 

[manbearpuig 1,646]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yes, and he will not be up before then.  It's just...how it's done.  Players more talented and ready than Vaughn have gone through it.

I don't think it's going to happen.

[ChiSox59 2,494]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yes, and he will not be up before then.  It's just...how it's done.  Players more talented and ready than Vaughn have gone through it.

I'd bet a fairly large sum of money that Vaughn is up before the Super 2 deadline.  

[Rowand44 715]

4 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

I never said is Tatis.  I said it was ridiculous to even talk him getting traded in any realistic trade. Hahn would never do it after the Tatis debacle

That'd be a huge problem if Rick is afraid to trade away a guy because the Tatis deal was botched.  I don't think that's the case but if it is, not good.

3 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

And I just have to repeat....The Tatis trade was not a debacle...it was putting a lottery ticket in a birthday card for someone at work and it turns out to be the winning powerball.  You sure look stupid after the fact but at the time it was a lark.  

It was a debacle.  Every single statistic that was available would tell you Shields was regressing big time and that he was basically done.  Obviously Tatis has ended up about 8 billion times better than anyone could have possibly imagined but trading anybody with any talent for Shields at that point was an awful, awful idea.

[manbearpuig 1,646]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd bet a fairly large sum of money that Vaughn is up before the Super 2 deadline.  

Agreed.

[TheCommish 46]

32 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

That'd be a huge problem if Rick is afraid to trade away a guy because the Tatis deal was botched.  I don't think that's the case but if it is, not good.

It was a debacle.  Every single statistic that was available would tell you Shields was regressing big time and that he was basically done.  Obviously Tatis has ended up about 8 billion times better than anyone could have possibly imagined but trading anybody with any talent for Shields at that point was an awful, awful idea.

What's crazy is the Tatis trade really affected what the Sox might have done in the 18 draft..  if we have Tatis, we have Anderson/Tatis up the middle and no need to draft Madrigal, and would have likely taken Kelenic, who went 2 spots after Madrigal. An OF of Eloy, Robert, Kelenic, Infield of Moncada, Tatis, Anderson, Abreu... 

 

Not saying we aren't set up very nice offensively already, but wow... that would have been some kind of show in 2021, 2022. 

[poppysox 1,470]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

That's not happening this time around. The Sox want a championship and need him to DH and spell Abreu at 1B the first two months of the season. They also need Vaughn to get his feet wet so that by around July or August, he can be established and ready for the stretch run. 

I agree.  Expect an extension before OD.

[fathom 6,287]

23 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

What's crazy is the Tatis trade really affected what the Sox might have done in the 18 draft..  if we have Tatis, we have Anderson/Tatis up the middle and no need to draft Madrigal, and would have likely taken Kelenic, who went 2 spots after Madrigal. An OF of Eloy, Robert, Kelenic, Infield of Moncada, Tatis, Anderson, Abreu... 

 

Not saying we aren't set up very nice offensively already, but wow... that would have been some kind of show in 2021, 2022. 

Singer is the likely pick 

[35thstreetswarm 605]

32 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

What's crazy is the Tatis trade really affected what the Sox might have done in the 18 draft..  if we have Tatis, we have Anderson/Tatis up the middle and no need to draft Madrigal, and would have likely taken Kelenic, who went 2 spots after Madrigal. An OF of Eloy, Robert, Kelenic, Infield of Moncada, Tatis, Anderson, Abreu... 

 

Not saying we aren't set up very nice offensively already, but wow... that would have been some kind of show in 2021, 2022. 

Then again, how does having Tatis impact other moves the FO has made since?  I play this game all the time with Tatis, with the hypothetical world where we signed Machado, etc.  For example, does this frugal front office "splurge" on Robert if it has Tatis in the fold?  Would they have set their sights on some other free agent rather than Machado given the crowded future infield?  Maybe they'd have entertained trade proposals for Anderson?  I'm not saying the Tatis move wasn't a huge error, but you can't just plug him into the current lineup like nothing else would've changed - anybody who's watched the "Back to the Future" trilogy knows that.

Edited February 24 by 35thstreetswarm

[Squirmin' for Yermin 942]

32 minutes ago, fathom said:

Singer is the likely pick 

We're all reports that we never had any interest in him at all?

[fathom 6,287]

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

We're all reports that we never had any interest in him at all?

Kenny liked him IIRC

[South Side Hit Men 751]

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I expect Jose to be the opening day 1B and I expect Vaughn to be in the minors until Super 2 passes.

 

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd bet a fairly large sum of money that Vaughn is up before the Super 2 deadline.  

This. Besides, I expect changes in the next CBA to counter service time manipulation with the new agreement. Former Seattle CEO Mathers helped galvanize union prioritization on this issue.

In terms of Abreu, I’m hoping his illness is nowhere close to what Moncada suffered.

We won’t know whether Abreu is 100% until Jose recovers enough to release his own music video. Moncada set a high bar, but I know Jose has the passion and talent to make it happen.

 

[Thad Bosley 652]

I wonder if Abreu experiences the lack of energy that Moncada went through if that won’t force a 1B/DH flip flop with him and Vaughn.  

[Kyyle23 2,821]

1 minute ago, Thad Bosley said:

I wonder if Abreu experiences the lack of energy that Moncada went through if that won’t force a 1B/DH flip flop with him and Vaughn.  

162 game grind will be a lot more of a struggle if that is the case with him.  Moncada only had to deal with 1/3 of that time.

hopefully asymptomatic and ready to go 

[Vulture 542]

1 hour ago, TheCommish said:

What's crazy is the Tatis trade really affected what the Sox might have done in the 18 draft..  if we have Tatis, we have Anderson/Tatis up the middle and no need to draft Madrigal, and would have likely taken Kelenic, who went 2 spots after Madrigal. 

Perfect example of why most say to never pick from need. No way Madrigal was the BPA. 

[Vulture 542]

9 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Unless Vaughn ends up being capable at 3B or RF, he'd have to put up a ridiculous OPS at a 1B/DH to have anywhere near the value of Tatis.

There’s a good chance of that happening though. Forecasting a top 5 hitter in baseball 3-5 years down the road isn’t a huge stretch for Vaughn imo

[michelangelosmonkey 466]

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

That's nonsense. This is one of the few young high quality teenagers the Sox signed, due to their club and Jerry's aversion. He had the pedigree with a professional baseball player father, and was given a half a million by a Wall Street hedge fund while he was in A ball, because unlike the White Sox, they had enough reason to believe it would pay off big time based on their algorithm. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fernando-tatis-jr-340-million-investment-fund-padres-11613732572

The Padres and this hedge fund were playing at a level several levels higher. Analysis of data separates the haves from the have nots. While the Sox have attempted to improve in this area, they are still light years behind other clubs. Six years ago, they were further away, hence Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields.

Yes...by the time he got state side he began turning people's heads.  But that's not when he was traded.   Months before ANY TEAM in baseball, including the Padres could have had, Tatis, Jr for a million dollars signing bonus.  In the exact same signing period the White Sox gave twice as much money to Franklin Reyes who also had a family member (brother) who was a major league player.   He "...has shown raw power and a plus arm"...and he was out of baseball two years later.   If the Padres had taken him instead of Tatis we wouldn't be talking about a debacle.  There are tens of thousands of 17 year old baseball players and only one of them turned into the greatest player of all time.  If you think this was not just bad luck...OK.  

[TheCommish 46]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Then again, how does having Tatis impact other moves the FO has made since?  I play this game all the time with Tatis, with the hypothetical world where we signed Machado, etc.  For example, does this frugal front office "splurge" on Robert if it has Tatis in the fold?  Would they have set their sights on some other free agent rather than Machado given the crowded future infield?  Maybe they'd have entertained trade proposals for Anderson?  I'm not saying the Tatis move wasn't a huge error, but you can't just plug him into the current lineup like nothing else would've changed - anybody who's watched the "Back to the Future" trilogy knows that.

I agree, hypotheticals are never air tight, just saying the potential with Kelenic as opposed to Madrigal. It's fun to think about. 

[Vulture 542]

4 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Tatis was not on anyones top 25 list of international prospects that year.  Look over the last fifty years at the players outside the top 25 international players and how many made the major leauges...then look at the ones that went on to be the best player in baseball.   Heres the list:  Fernando Tatis, Jr.  If he were signed this year he wouldn't be in our top 50 prospects.  If by design you mean the White Sox went to the padres and said "you can take any one prospect outside our top 50"...It was a reasonable upside bet for them.  But it was really just horrible luck.  

If the Sox are using Baseball America prospect rankings to evaluate their players value, they’ve got more problems than apparent. Actually, maybe that does explain it.