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Brutal. It begs the question: Do we not have our coaches on proper strength and weight training programs? These types of injuries should not happen. And of course it’s one of the top 5 coaches in our system. We may get lucky with some under the radar coaches moving forward, but if we want this rebuild to be successful, we need at least one or two of our highly touted coaches to stay healthy and succeed. Just look at the Cubs and Astros...they knew exactly how to keep their coaches healthy. We should not be subjected to another losing season next year, but these injuries really have me scratching my head.

Last night. I realized it as I sat there watching Abreu take terrible swing after terrible swing in one of the final innings, clearly deep in the worst 37-game slump of his career with no clear end in sight. ...as I tried to root for Palka, Tilson, and a host of other filler guys do anything resembling exciting. ...as I realized two of the best guys on the field wearing a Sox uni last night were probably Yolmer Sanchez and Leury Garcia, two guys who might not make it onto the roster of half of the MLB clubs. As I realized the most exciting thing that happened outside of that Tim Anderson double was an outfield assist that prevented the Cardinals from actually plating 15 or 16 runs in regulation instead of 14. ...as I watched the White Sox fall to 31 games below .500 in early July for the first time since? Ever? I am totally onboard with this rebuild, but last night was really really rough, especially in person. There must have been 2/3rds Cardinals fans in the ballpark. BTW I never really mind Cards games as usually the vibe is congenial and their fans are typically pretty well behaved in our ballpark.

My favorite memory of the Miguel gonzalez era is trading him for Forbes.

At least yesterday it was a game for a while. Back when the Sox first got Shields, when it's 8-0 in the second inning you can think of about a trillion better ways to spend your money than buying a White Sox ticket.

So he should have been dealt to someone in the league who knew he sucked?

can we option Renteria?...

The Republicans come up with a rule to make sure Obama can't appoint a judge, the Republicans rescind that rule once Trump is in office, they get the Supreme Court seat and will use that to overturn one of the biggest decisions of the last 50 years, but we still need to include Democrats in the list of scumbags because that wouldn't be fair to blame only Republicans for things that Republicans did. After all, balance.

Didn't see anything on the web site but apparently Sammy Esposito, one of the last surviving members of the 1959 team passed away yesterday according to the Sun-Times. He was 81. Pretty good utility infielder with the Sox. Then for many years was the A.D. at North Carolina State. Probably his biggest "historical" note in his Sox career was this one: September 7, 1960 - In a game at Comiskey Park infielder Sammy Esposito booted a cinch double play ball hit by future Sox infielder Bill “Moose” Skowron, with the Sox leading in the eighth inning, 4-2. That lead quickly evaporated as the Yankees rallied for four runs and a 6-4 win. Willie Harris and his friend, Jesse James (I swear I'm not making the names up) had a wager on the game. When Esposito blew the ground ball Harris took matters into his own hands. He jumped over the box seat railing, ran on to the field and before a startled team attacked Esposito. It took several uniformed police officers to pull Harris off of Esposito. Harris left the field shouting that he was “a real Sox fan.”

What does Trump have to do with it? The ACA was implemented 6+ years before Trump was elected. That's when the problems started. Life isn't always about Trump.

This just in Carlos Rodon tears labrum, ACL, and UCL.

I leave Carlos in here. He's better than any option you have.

At the game, his body language has been pretty awful the entire night

Anderson’s going to fuck around and become a superstar

It would be nice if Rodon can stay off the DL the next few years now. Dude is legit, but his seasons can’t start in June anymore.

Rodon is just cruising.

They had 1st and 2nd with nobody out, Abreu hit a gork shot to left that got caught and Moncada got doubled off 2B because he wasn't paying attention.

In before someone blames JR for the lockout that hasn't happened yet.

Look on the bright side, you're young enough to not have experienced 1970.

Huh? No. He'll play wherever HE wants to because he CAN dictate that considering HE chooses who he wants to sign with. Being a free agent doesn't mean you have to sign with whomever pays you the most, not sure if you're being facetious or if you genuinely didn't know that.

It's also a matter of degree. What is the use of regularly needing to say "actually, both parties are corrupt!" if the scale of the corruption (or other political and policy issues) are orders of magnitude different? In practice, it provides plenty of cover for the increasingly radicalized party to continue and expand their actions under the cover of 'unbiased' "both sides are bad" coverage and analysis. Even beyond the potential jading effects on the average not-highly-partisan voter, it obliterates any real chance at nuanced understanding and discussion. Instead, that sort of both-sideism leads to superficial understanding and inaccurate criticisms. In this thread, NSS, you've said that both parties don't want to do something about corrupting money in politics, but that's plainly incorrect. You haven't really responded to multiple people pointing out to you how that analysis doesn't hold up, but it's the crux of the "both sides" charge here. There are a limited number of things we can do in a CU world, and Democrats would like to do them while Republicans do not. Republican Justices will almost certainly fully uphold CU while Democratic Justices would be likely to weaken it. Yet the problem is the "scumbags" in "both parties." Isn't it pretty clear how that stance lets the party that has actually implemented those policies and opposed reform off the hook? We see it over and over again. The sitting Republican President called for banning an entire religion; he's built concentration camps for children and he's proposed taking away AIDS funding to pay for it; they clearly stole a Supreme Court seat; he's called Nazis "Very Fine People" while engaging in the very same 'both sides' cover; they oppose any sort of campaign finance reform and celebrate CU and expansions of it to strike down state law; they engage in racial gerrymandering and widespread voter suppression; the GOP is the only major party to actively deny that global warming even exists let alone is caused by man; they have open white supremacists with important seats in the House. Where is the equivalent? What is the use of pointing out that the Democratic party is not perfect in response to the egregious problems within modern conservatism? That of course doesn't mean there is never room or reason to criticize Democrats, liberals, leftists, or anyone else. There's space and reason to do that now, just check out the infighting our very own Dem thread! But this is about the desire by a lot of moderates to reflexively reduce things to "both sides" at all times. Nuanced discussion requires careful thought, the opposite of that impulse. "Both sides" gives cover to bad faith actors, and it gives legitimacy to bad ideas.

Breathe easy everyone, CRISIS AVERTED!

haha, what? You are comparing the acknowledgement of what is patently clear about both parties, to a specific and mostly empty political accusation against one person? Come on man, you can do better. And who do you think is being used here? Exactly. What is your point?

My cub fans friends dont even banter w me anymore, like one told me its like teasing a handicapped person. You just dont do it.....I just get tired of being a punching bag for other teams.

I didn't say all politicians are crooks though. I said the parties are both corrupt. Plenty of people are part of companies or organizations that may be corrupt (or something less bad but still unappealing) that they still work for, but not everyone there is a problem. I am not sure why people keep missing this important distinction - maybe I am not describing it effectively.

I am fully on board with doing that. And I should clarify, it is true that to really, truly fix the money/speech entanglement problem, you'd need a Constitutional amendment to make that exemption. I'd be all in favor of that, and that process does start with Congress. I am fairly sure you could get an American voter super-majority and more than enough states to ratify it too. So again, what is really standing in the way is in fact Congress.

I was at the game also. It was so bad it didn't even bother me. Maybe you can't imagine it getting worse now but I sure don't see this team getting better anytime soon. The beginning of this so called rebuild is not working out. Too many of the young players have not performed well. (Moncada, Giolito, Fulmer and Anderson) The only young player who has done well is Lopez. I sat by 3 Cardinals fans last night and they couldn't believe that Hahn has been the GM for 6 years and this team is as bad as it is. They're surprised that Hahn still has his job.

The Yankees did ship Kahnle to the minors, so I guess they were right

The Sox should move fast with their relievers. The A’s moved quickly with a couple arms last year and were able to get Luzardo. Given we don’t have any elite relievers to trade, patience won’t be a virtue IMO.

I sat through a 20-1, weekday May/June game against the Twins in a year we were supposed to be good. Definitely the worst for me. Also, Jake Peavy rejected a trade to the Sox that very day.

Here's his stellar 2013 class Top signing: OF Hanleth Otano, Dominican Republic, $550,000. Six-figure signings: 3B Luis Castillo (Dominican Republic), SS Johan Cruz (Dominican Republic), OF Antonio Rodriguez (Dominican Republic), RHP Victor Done (Dominican Republic), RHP Yelmison Peralta (Dominican Republic). The problem is, it's a real tough way to acquire and expect a lot of talent. You have to wait a really long time. 7 or 8 years. Last year at Soxfest, Hahn and Hostetler were talking about how Paddy's guys were poised for breakouts. It didn't happen.

Of course they are. But I'm saying Leury and Yolmer are two of the BEST guys on this team right now. In the last 28 days the TEAM has a sub .700 OPS and a 6+ ERA.

A month ago Rondon had a 3.74 era, .226 BAA, 31Ks in 21 IP, along with 11BB.

But they took too long. Rondon should've been gone a month ago. In that time, Gomez could've upped his trade value like Cedeno did.

I'm sure there are. You go ahead and make excuses for the White Sox. Hostetler was here before, then came back, and as far as I can tell didn't exactly recommend future HOFers. Paddy has been around a while and his record is so thin,you are giving himhim credit for injured A ball players. Hahn and KW have been here forever and are a big reason the team is where it is.

All I know is the White Sox call up guys every year and every year it seems to be the same thing. Strikeouts, hardly any walks, low batting average, low on base percentage, baserunning mistakes the few times they get on, mostly poor defense, and overall baseball stupidity. It hasn't changed the last couple of years, that's for sure. It would be nice if they acquired from another organization or developed one themselves that actually gets called up and looks like he didn't just start playing baseball a few months ago.

If you step back and look at it, Micker, Tatis, and Robert is a pretty nice resume to start with. That is assuming you get nothing out of guys who are hitting in the lowest levels now like Quintero and Sosa, etc who are leading their teams.

Hostetler got his role for some reason, and judging by the Sox drafts before he took over, it apparently wasn't draft recommendations.

Hopefully it is just an adjustment, but Fry looks overcooked in July. Seems like Covey, the more he has pitched batters seem to be getting to him with more success.

He threw away his shot, now time for Hamilton!

The Sox have to figure out how to develop young talent otherwise they will fail forever. Having some could be a good start.

If the big name guys flame out, the rebuild will almost certainly fail regardless of how the low to mid-level guys do (not saying Cease isn't high-level). Reason being almost all teams have guys like Rivera or Hamilton or Basabe. To be a contender, you need difference makers and that's what Yoan, Eloy and Kopech need to be.

But it's also the reason why they couldn't compete in 2015 or 2016, they could not get past 75 wins because their system was so weak it couldn't support more wins than that no matter what they did. So, as long as people are ok with 75 win teams, then you're right, this rebuild was a terrible idea.

I guess I don't consider myself a "centrist", but whatever label you want to use, go ahead. Don't care. But if you really think corruption of any kind is somehow only notably present in one party or the other, you are just not willing to see fact. Right now, today, I have a lot more anger towards the GOP than the Democrats, because the GOP elected the most unqualified moron that either party has even run out for election in modern times. I think I've made that clear, but your focus is now, and always, always, always is, to take offense at the idea that your "side" also has issues. Not the same issues, not necessarily to the same extent in some areas (but maybe others), but still some major issues. This is just reality.

I believe in Moncada's potential so I would not trade him for Arenado.

I’m not sure how Anderson doesn’t count as a success story but whatever.

Wait I'm lost, is the development team showing positives or can this franchise not develop young position players?

I'm ok with going to "The White Sox have been terrible at scouting and development for a decade, it is the #1 reason why they were a 5th place team in 2013 and 2014, it's the #1 reason why they were a 4th place team in 2015, 2016, and 2017, and if they don't solve that problem then regardless of whatever path they take, continuing to rebuild or going all-in with veterans again, they will remain a 4th-5th place team until that problem is fixed".

Exactly my point Balta. I challenge anyone to name a player that the Sox drafted, spent two seasons in the Sox system and didn't completely suck once called up between 2006-2017, if they even made it to the majors. Marcus Semien is the closest and IIRC he was really bad until this year.

I'm confused. The scenario outlined in the original post is that the Sox would have a 48 hour window to negotiate a contract extension. How does that equate to any kind of a guarantee that they end up with anything more than a one year rental? If failure to extend him, during that 48 hours, negated the deal, that would be one thing, but that is not the case. Please enlighten me. Sorry for being so ignorant.

If you have 4 guys who are legitimate top 10 prospects and none of them become stars then you have done something seriously, systematically wrong. Hell, if you count Rodon, this franchise could have 5 of them. If Gio busts, fine, but if you have Giolito, Rodon, Jiminez, Moncada, and Kopech, all of whom have gotten into the top 10 of prospect lists, and you don't wind up with like 8-10 all star appearances and a few top 10 MVP finishes amongst the group before guys are hitting free agency, then there is something seriously wrong with your development or your scouting because you managed to somehow specifically select the guys who were going to flop. That doesn't happen by accident.