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Well stated.

I am not saying he’s a good OF, but using his OF skills to diminish his value is not fair. He was drafted to be a 1B, was expected play 1B exclusively, and literally learned how to play OF on the fly, in his first season in MLB. Not to mention, his time in the minors to hone his hitting craft was non-existent. The fact that he had to learn how to hit MLB pitching, essentially skipping the minors, while playing a position nothing remotely close to the 1B tells me how much better he might been offensively last season if he could have just concentrated more on hitting. Or you know, spent a full year in the minors above A ball, to concentrate on hitting. It also tells me what kind of hitter he can become in the following seasons. The fact that he’s a hard worker and seems to have decent baseball intelligence also bodes well. I know this stuff has been repeated a lot in his defense, but it shouldn’t be understated. Three of the best hitters in White Sox history have been RH 1B/DH types. If the guy can hit like many believe he can, no one will be complaining about his position or handedness. A lot of White Sox and fans of other teams are clamoring to give Castellanos contracts up to 5/100. Castellanos realistically shouldn’t be classified any differently than a slow RH 1B/DH type. And at age 23, posted a “pathetic” .721 OPS and 1.3 bWAR. Vaughn is under control for the next 5 years for pennies. Trading him and not getting another cost controlled elite talent that fills a hole (SP) is pointless, short sighted and will be a mistake. Maybe trading him at all will be a mistake. I just don’t agree at all that Vaughn’s rookie season revealed anything negative about the dude’s talent or value. Again, he’s not untouchable by any means, but the way some posters are just casually throwing his name around in trades just for the hell of it is odd. And for Tray’s question, no, I would not trade him for Bellinger. That’s silly.

So about Kelenic's -0.7 WAR in 93 games...?

Can you imagine Frank or Paulie in the outfield? Vaughn was fantastic under the circumstances. He's a good athlete who can hit. I have every faith that he will be a big bat in a year or two. He is the heir apparent at 1st base. We need a bit of patience until his time comes.

Here is your second time. Who woulda thunk you'd witness it again so soon!

They do not need to sell the team. They just need a create a structure that can win games. A McCaskey does not need to be the CEO, hell let Phillips be the CEO and hire an actual football guy to be the President. Do that I do not mind letting Pace hang around under the new President.

The Lovie Smith era was pretty good. Maybe I am misremembering as it has been horrific since he was fired. It is amazing he was fired after a 10-6 season and this is what we are getting now. The game was lost due to the terrible penalties extending drives. That was one of the worst officiated games I'd seen. The Bears two personal fouls on 3rd down plays were amazingly bad. Then Minnesota does the same thing the Bears did and Jenkins gets the penalty. Ifedi confronting Jenkins on that the way he did was bad as well. I felt like the Bears were waiting for the other shoe to drop on their defense the whole game and it did not. Nagy, Pace, Phillips and George the ticket manager all need to go. George McCaskey has no ability to run a football team yet here we are.

The Bears have been a mostly bad team for most of our lives with an occasional good season every 5-7 years. It's the same boring conversation because it's the same boring team that never has a good offense ever.

Beast, I don't think anyone here wants Pace to stay. I'm not sure why you keep getting frustrated at people saying "fire Nagy" like that is the only thing that they want. I feel confident saying all of the Bears fans in this thread want Pace and Nagy gone, and if Phillips can be on that bus out of town, him too.

No. Welcome to Soxtalk!

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games. If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player. He's a right handed hitting 1B. He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a flounder in a net doesn't make him good. He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player. Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted.

I think you proved my point. 17 different teams out of 26. Not a lot of sustained, year after year success, for most teams.

From 2005-2016, there were 3 Stanley Cup wins, 2 World Series wins, and one Super Bowl appearance. Not too bad.

1980s and 1990s we're the golden age of Chicago sports. Too bad most of y'all weren't born.

Well stated.

I agree that a fleet of moving trucks should be arriving at Halas Hall. But I'm also starting to believe that at any given point in time there are only half a dozen executives and head coaches in each sport that have it figured out and can sustain some success. The other seventy five percent are going to fail every year. It's just not as easy as it looks from the outside. And seriously, how can the Bears go fifty years without a top five quarterback.

Samesies.

I would happily take almost anyone over Old Man River.

That is a guy I was hoping the Sox would talk to last offseason. Would happily take Kotsay over Old Man River.

I'm not saying the Bears deserved at all to win, but it's really frustrating to see both of Minnesota's TD drives extended by bullshit personal foul calls. When the announcing crew and referee analyst, who are paid by networks who do huge business with the league, all agree the call is bad, that's really bad.

Obviously last night was a slog, and every year of my life december january has just been waiting for the football slog to be over and staring at disbelief at the other teams that aren't just a slog and wondering how every year is the same... however they just had a week where all of their coordinators were unsure if they could be there, half their team disappeared. Not that surprised they looked terrible especially with fields and I didn't think he looked that bad. It's amazing to me with the bears offensive staff under nagy just how unaware of their roster's capabilities they are. They are not a very talented group on offense anyway, as seen by the huge disparity in $ investment. But it feels like a yearly occurrence where someone like Cordarelle Patterson or Mike Davis leaves after being useless and suddenly finding relevance again doing exactly what they seem to be good at. Any roster craziness like last night is a death warrant for a game under nagy because they always seem completely unaware what their players are good at and clearly bad at teaching their players what they want them to be good at. They have been remarkably good at power runs and just seem as a team completely disinterested in doing that. Just hitches. Lots and lots of hitches. Defensively it was a nice game to see, a game without much of the higher priced talent that you ideally shed. Now, quinn is an insanely productive player and he was on the field. As was Hicks. But at this point I'd expect the next FO to try to recoup and send out the higher priced defensive talent and provide some balance toward their QBs talent group. Quinn, Mack need to fetch high picks. Goldman can save $6M. It's rough but if they have two cost-controlled tackles and a rookie QB it should be doable with a good front office and staff.

Sure, fire Nagy. That will fix everything, all of the underlying issues!

Fields looks awful.

Imagine the White Sox beginning the 2022 season with Madrigal as the starting 2nd baseman and Kimbrel off the roster. Oh well.

This sucks.

Who is saying that it is? There is a difference in not wanting to trade Vaughn because you believe in him, and thinking trading him for anything is a "crazy off the wall suggestion"

It's also one of those things where the dodgers being willing to trade bellinger would mean they don't think he's bouncing back either (normal bellinger with his versatility and bat >> even a very good outcome for Vaughn), so you should think twice anyway.

Your post is provocative, well off the mark, and unnecessary. Your accusation of bias is based on false assumptions. I evaluate [players, including Vaughn, based on their statistics and what I see of them in person when I attend games. I posted a link where Vaughn discussed his closeness with his people, including old teammates at Cal. No surprise, Vaughn lived in California and may still live there. If so, he would be no different that any other major league player who wants to spend as much time with their friends and family as possible. Another fact: The NL could adopt the DH making Vaughn a more valuable trade chip. Players like Lux or Cody Bellinger could be trade targets. Both of them had up and down seasons with the Dodgers. They are both pretty decent. Vaughn for Cody Bellinger? I would be pleased with that trade for several reasons having nothing to do with bias. Do you think Vaughn is better than Bellinger or that Vaughn would be a better fit in RF? If Bellinger and/or Lux were on the table I would be pleased if the Sox included ( "threw in" as you phrased it) Kimbrel.... provided that the Dodgers paid his 16 Million salary and included another player or a prospect. I am just floating possible trade scenarios ... no different than any other fan does at this time of the year wishing to engage in friendly conversation.

I cannot figure out why the Ravens went for 2 there. Cost them the game.