Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:11 PM) It's Haigwood and Gio, with Haigwood being the PTBNL. Haigwood is on the 40 man roster. Tossing him into the trade right away means that Philly would have less flexibility with the upcoming Rule 5 draft. Once that mess is all straigtened out, Haigwood/Gio will be made official. Are you sure? I was thinking 40 man roster guys aren't allowed to be PTBNL, but thats usually debatable and I may be entirely wrong. Especially since he's going to a different league.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:55 PM) Yes, agree with this. Here's how I think the dominoes will fall: They deal Marte + something else cheap to Florida for Juan Pierre. That something else cheap could be a prospect like Borchard plus another more desireable prospect ... or it could be Marte and a higher ceiling guy like Anderson, with possibly something else coming back to the White Sox. Either way the key pieces are Marte and Pierre. KW then goes out and finds a lefty reliever, they patch in another utility guy or even stay with Harris and you're all done. I'm with you on this. Anderson will get a lot of Ab's (375-450), but as the 4th outfielder and he'll be ready to replace one of the speedsters in 07 (whether its Pierre who becomes a FA or Pods). The key is I want the Sox to find a good reliever to replace Marte (the pen was huge for the Sox last year and was one of the key reasons they did what they did). I can also see quite a few guys in that Sox pen having worse years than 05 (which definately means I want another guy or two in there). I can't see giving up much more than Marte for Pierre though (considering Juan's salary).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:33 PM) There's a 0 percent chance Pods plays center this year. Whether its Pierre or Anderson, both are better Cfers.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) $8.75 Boy was I off. Well I think the overall numbers I gave were fairly accurate (although it was a ballpark figure off the top of my head).

Aaron...the way you played the game made me smile. I will always root for you and I thank you for all that you did on the Southside of Chicago. May you one day come back to Chicago, but regardless, may the rest of your career be great and hopefully you'll grab a gold glove away from Andruw Jones in the next couple years. Thanks for all the memories. You will always be one of my favorite players to watch. You hustled and fought and never gave up.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:40 PM) Yours is an excellent point. You're right, it's sometimes very good with a young player to just tell him "here's what you do in this AB". It's one hell of a lot of pressure though, especially with this teams huge expectations. Iguchi was somewhat of a different case ... much more experienced and likely more fundamentally sound. Here is a name that might fit into the mix somehow, some way ... Ryan Freel. He is arbitration eligible with the Reds and might be available. Speed, can handle the bat, can play multiple positions. He might be an interesting player. I still think all signs point to Juan Pierre though. I just don't think Anderson handles the bat that well and I could really see him failing. The 2 hole is a key spot in Ozzie's lineup (especially with what he asks him to do) and I think your risking a lot not having a veteran who can handle the bat in that spot. This is the only reason why I don't think Anderson will be the starter. If Guchi was going to stay in the 2 hole than I could easily see Anderson being named the starter.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) Very talented but one of the biggest jerks in the game. I don't think he's the kind of guy KW and Ozzie want for the team. All of this being said I agree that we should just stick with BA. I believe KWand Ozzie think it is time to get him MLB playing time. I tend to agree, but he could be had for little (in the sense of prospects).

I just want to point out. The reports say the Phils are going to pick up 22 million of the contract, which means the Sox would be paying an avg of just over 7 mill (for 3 years). If you figure in the 3.25 Aaron was slated to make the deal ends up meaning the Sox would see there payroll increase 3.75-3.8 million over last years. This means if the Sox give Konerko 3 million more (he made good money this year IIRC, 10 mill or so) you'd have roughly a 7 million increase in those two players. Obviously other guys are due raises, but thats not even figuring in the loss of Everett and Thomas which would easily wash out Konerko's raise and Thome's net (minus Arows salary). Which means Garland and maybe a few others get raises (pushing you to 6-8 million). This means the Sox (after this trade) still have anywhere from 7-12 million (depending on what you think payroll will be 85 or 90) to make upgrades (thats if they don't deal Duque).

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:23 PM) I was thinking Rocco Baldelli. Another guy coming off an injury on a team with a surplus at the position. KW might be able to swing a good deal with a new GM in Tampa. If were going with unprovens (and I think Rocco is over-rated, although very talented) we might as well stick with our in-house guy of Brian Anderson. Just my 2 cents. I think Anderson has more all around ability than Rocco. Good suggestion though. The main reason I don't see Anderson as the answer (this year) is because Ozzie wants a 2 hole hitter. Thats been documented and I am 99% sure that won't be Guchi (he'll slide down in the lineup replacing Aaron and do a better job, imo). Anderson obviously is not capable of being a 2 hole hitter (at least not now) so you'd have to find someone. The big sleeper I'd go with is Milton Bradley. He can handle the bat and has all the tools (not as quick as he once was) but he has boughts with laziness and is a racist that doesn't fit in the clubhouse.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) as an aside....did gio gonzalez remind anyone else of arnie munoz? thats the comparison i cant get out of my head when referring to sox minor leaguers Well Arnie long had some hype when it came to his curve. His status has long died, although he's still quite young and capable (not as a starter). Similar builds, but Gio is far superior.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) Jason ... put your thinking cap on .... Who else fits besides Pierre? Somebody with speed, can handle the bat, and can function in the #2 hole. Rafael Furcal moving to CF Darin Erstad (can't play CF really) Figgins (Angels won't deal him) Milton Bradley (Sox won't go for him...plus injury problems..plus not as fast as he used to be) Johnny Damon (probably too much money...hell of a hitter though) Vernon Wells (not a typical 2 hole hitter) Carl Crawford (I think he's over-rated) Ichiro??? Soriano (move him to CF) I still think Pierre makes the absolute most amount of sense.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:05 PM) You promised us Aubrey Huff at the trade deadline too. I made up for that, by telling everyone that was bashing Konerko were a bunch of idiots and that he'd be one of the key reasons this team would win the series. I also pretty much dead on called how he would finish the season (statistically)

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) I need to make a new banner for the place. That would be sweet

QUOTE(HoosierSox @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:05 PM) From your description of Haigwood Chisoxfn he sounds a lot like Buerhle. Unknown lefty soft tosser who works fast and gets the job done. I hope we didnt just give up another Buerhle. He is a good one. He was probably the best starter in our system. That said our system is pretty thin right now when it comes to pitching (especially with Gio and Haig on the way out). Of course if Lummy can get healthy (he has the best pure stuff, imo) and Braodway can continue to develop (along with Tracey making some strides with his control) we could have some viable replacements (plus Liotta). I do expect the Sox to go heavy on pitching this up-coming draft.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 10:31 AM) I read some stories on the Phillies site where it said he only experienced pain while throwing, not hitting. Although that .207 average he was sporting might suggest otherwise. I'd have to think that injury had an effect on his swing. Without being able to extend your elbows, you definately can't extend your hands and your going to have a lot of trouble. Thome is the type of guy that makes zero excuses, but there is no doubt in my mind it had an effect (hell I hope it did, otherwise we just made a mistake, lol).

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:56 PM) By the way .... Levine was right that the Sox were sniffing around Thome and so were the two guys on the Score, Boers and Bernstein. Just an aside. I'm giving myself a pat on the back too. I said the deal would be done by the winter meetings a week or two ago Makes up for promising Randy Johnson last year, lol.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) As you young guys like to say, ding ding ding, we have a winner. Agree 100%, there is somethng else in the works. Guillen wants to drop Iguchi down, he wants more speed and contact at the top, and now there's a vacancy in CF. I am connecting the dots and it leads me to Juan Pierre. But Jason brings up a good point, they could have their eye on someone else. Its got to be a speed guy. Hell, I know a lot of people hate this name and I highly doubt the Sox want to spend the money. However, Johnny Damon is now a candidate and would have a place to play. I can't possibly see the Sox doing this, but you never know. My guess is Ozzie has already told him who he wants and him and Kenny have a plan. They were willing to trade Aaron for a reason and I don't think that reason is Brian Anderson (it may be the long term reason) but I don't think its the whole reason. Ozzie wants another speed guy at the top of the order which will move Guchi down in the lineup. This is going to give the Sox a really balanced lineup (when they find that CF). Also, an alternative if the Sox lose Konerko is to get Giles and put him in CF or LF. I don't think Giles would come here, but thats another potential option. I'm trying to think of other speedy outfielders that would fit, but Pierre is the name that makes the most amount of sense. Plus the Fish want to move him (Dodgers are really interested though supposedly). Could the DRays have Carl Crawford on the block? Just throwing out a name.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:30 PM) Here are my feelings... Haigwood was a relative unknown entering the season...a long shot prospect. he put up good numbers at high A earned a promotion to AA where he was hot hot hot. left handed, medium build, soft thrower 89-91, good breaking pitches, decent change up, good feel for pitching. He definintely needs to prove he can do it again at AAA before i would call him a top prospect. Gonzalez - alot of scouts say hes one of the most underrated prospects in the game. one of the best curveballs from the 04 draft. was projected as a 1st round pick out of high school but he fell to the supplemental round because he sat out most of his senior year after a fight with his coach about his brothers playing time. Hes skinny, but young (20) so some feel he'll get bigger. he doesnt blow hitters away but can run his fastball to 93, with his big tight overhand curve, and a developing change. Make up is an issue as is health, as he hasnt had the best record of staying healthy. he has had great K:IP ratios, is still very young, and is lefthanded, so a good prospect. Two nice lefties to slide behind cole hammels in the philly organization. At best for the two, Gonzalez if he stays healthy will be be an above average big league starter IMO and haigwood still has to prove that the second half of 05 was no mirage, and then id project him as a #3-5 starter I just want to point out Haigwood was one of the better young arms in the Sox system prior to missing the entire 03 or 04 season with an injury. He also was a steal in the draft because many people thought he was going to play college ball (I think Michigan). Very good feel for pitching.

QUOTE(Hey_Look_Its_Chase_Utley! @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:17 PM) Phillies fan here. Congrats on the World Series victory, and getting on the classiest guys in baseball. I really think Thome was a great pickup for you guys, and is much better of where he can DH instead of playing 1B every day. What can you tell me about the prospects the Phillies reportedly received. You got yourself two good prospects. Despit what BA and other sources will say, my personal take is that Haigwood is the better of the two. Gio has better stuff, but has a frail makeup and I have questions about his long term durability. That said, if he stays healthy he's a very polished young lefty who has one of the better curves in the minors. He also mixes in an improving changeup (which will need to get better) and a 4 seam and 2seam/cut fastball. Not a lot of juice but he knows how to pitch and mixes his spots well. I think he also throws a slider, but his bread and butter is the curve mixed with locating his spots. I'd say his upside would be that of Barry Zito (think big hook). Problem is he puts a lot of pressure on his narrow frame and has had some durability issues already (no serious arm issues though). He along with Haigwood are top 5 prospects in our organization though. Haigwood is a little more ready. He dominated AA late last season and last year was him at 100%. The prior year he was still recovering from a knee/leg injury that kept him out for the entire 2003 season. Haigwood is a good pitcher with not the greatest stuff but he has a very good change-up, works fast, knows how to mix his pitches in (uses the plate well) and flat out gets the job done. I really like what Haigwood can do and I think you got yourself a major leaguer. He'll never be an ace, but I could see him being at best a good #2 and at worse a serviceable 4th or 5th guy (barring injury).

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) Interesting. They'd still be missing the new #2 hitter, with speed, that Ozzie wants. I heard earlier today he said Pierre would be next.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:49 PM) jason, whats your take on this trade and the doors it opens? Its interesting. It could be a time where Anderson can come in and put similar numbers up. Personally I think he's still a year away from doing that, but Anderson has the tools to be a similar player. The player I'd hate giving up the most (long term) is Daniel Haigwood. However, Kenny has just filled this clubs major hole for the past couple years (left handed pop) and a healthy Jim Thome makes this a fantastic trade. If Thome is hurt and never comes back to his career norms, this would be a poor deal. I have faith in Kenny and the staff and I think they believe Thome will be back at 100%. Its been shown recently that players can put up good numbers into there late 30's. That said, 2-3 years from now we may have some concerns. Its definately going to be interesting to see what happens in CF. I'd like to bring in another guy and working Anderson in as a 4th outfielder (getting a ton of Ab's though). I'm guessing we'll see a speed guy brought in.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:42 PM) The report is that it is Haigwood and a player to be named. There has been some speculation that the player to be named is Gio Gonzalez, but neither of those names have been confirmed at all. This affects neither Konerko nor Thomas...but makes it such that 1 of those 2 will not be back next year. This ends it for Thomas, imo. Thome is not being acquired to play 1st. In a pinch he could, but I think the Sox plans are to use him as a full time DH. Paulie could be playing 1st or Dye could be playing 1st, but Frank Thomas days with the Sox ended the second Thome was on his way to Chicago.

It will definately be interesting to see who the prospects are. Haigwood is a guy I really like, while Gio I'd give up. Of course if Thome is healthy this is a great trade for the Sox. They get one of the premiere run producers in the game. Its definately a little risk, but the Phils are putting a lot of cash into the pot and as much as I love Rowand I understand trading from a strenght of the organization (both LHP prospects and CFers). I love this site too. I was on the golf course when I got a call from Boz telling me Rowand was dealt. Than 2 minutes later Molto and Heads text me with the details. Even from afar I had a clue of what was going on. Now the question is who exactly is the prospect and what will Juan Pierre cost. Or do the Sox have another person in mind or are they planning on Brian Anderson.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 09:34 AM) I bet the Broncos will try to sign him next year if he is available. This year I can't see it. I don't understand the Seahawks either. They are loaded at WR with Darrell Jackson coming back this week or next. Jurevicious, Engram, Darrell Jackson. That is very nice and I don't think T.O. fits. Umm...Seahawks weakness has long been WR. They always have drops. This year they have been better, but they don't have a receiver even close to TO. TO would make them a legit super bowl contender. Thats if TO shuts up and plays.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 09:23 AM) ^^^^^ I'm a closet TO fan. Obviously the guy is a jackass but IMO he's the best WR in the league. I just love how he gives it his all on the field.