13 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I think Wheeler is a better pitcher than Bumgarner, but I also think Bumgarner is a better fit for the Sox. Roster construction matters. 

No, no he is not a better fit than Wheeler. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by ChiSox59

I’ll eat crow if it turns out that he absolutely, unequivocally turned down real money to go play somewhere else.  I know I’ve been a broken record around here that that almost never happens with mlb free agents.  I am still guessing when more details come out it will be more complicated—whether “extra” money was on the table will be arguable, it will turn out they were roughly equivalent offers (ala Heyward and the Cardinals).  We’ll see.  

Oh well, I was not that wrapped up emotionally in landing the third prize in the free agent pitching sweepstakes.

Just now, DirtySox said:

Late on this, but wow. Would never have guessed the Sox were the high bidder. I guess that's good news for the future? But man does it suck to get spurned. Stings a little less though.

Winning will eventually change this.    Need our young guys to keep moving things in the right direction. 

Reading through the various notes, tweets and stories... sounds like the Sox offered more cash money. Can't really be upset with ol Uncle Jerry on this one. He choose family/geography over $$.

Just now, BrianAnderson said:

Yes. And he didn't get that. Which proves exactly my point - he's not a TOR starter. He's a nice piece, but by no means is a TOR. Markets dictate worth. If he was a TOR he'd get $6 and $180mm ... he's not. 

I’m not sure you read my original post. 

2 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Also, you’re saying that if Scherzer and Verlander are on the same team, one of them suddenly “isn’t a TOR starter?”

No - that's you being a sarcastic poster.

My point is 80% of this board would likely take Giolito over Wheeler all things equal and a year ago Giolito was considered a bust by 80% of this board. 

Step off the ledge, this isn't a huge miss.

6 minutes ago, shakes said:

Why would you feel bad for him? His job is to sign players, not submit competitive offers. Rick failed at his job again. 

This is a bad look for the Sox, no matter how you spin it. 

I mean, the guy offered the most money.

That's all you can do.

For ONCE the White Sox implied they would not be outbid on a player and they actually weren't. 

Despite missing out, that really is a step in the right direction and a positive takeaway from this. It leads to more optimism. 

1 minute ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

Reading through the various notes, tweets and stories... sounds like the Sox offered more cash money. Can't really be upset with ol Uncle Jerry on this one. He choose family/geography over $$.

We are that ugly dude that has to spend big money to get the hot chick. I just can't imagine family being the reason he turned us down. That sounds like the it's not you, it's me excuse. 

52 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

We offered 5 and 100, the Phillies came and offered 5 and 115. Once again, we are in second place just like Jerry likes it. 

Wrong. 

Honestly, just don't make me watch a Despaigne analog ever again and I'll be over it in a second. 

Time for some overcompensation to placate the base. Lets see some rapid fire signings/trades beginning with Pederson.

8 minutes ago, shakes said:

Why would you feel bad for him? His job is to sign players, not submit competitive offers. Rick failed at his job again. 

This is a bad look for the Sox, no matter how you spin it. 

They can't sell.  

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Wrong. 

I'll eat crow about this one. But you were just as wrong. 

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They can't sell.  

I also get the sense they do a terrible job at evaluating where they stand with a player

7 minutes ago, shakes said:

Why would you feel bad for him? His job is to sign players, not submit competitive offers. Rick failed at his job again. 

This is a bad look for the Sox, no matter how you spin it. 

His job is to build a team to win. It's not to sign players, or trade players or draft players individually. There isn't just one way to build the team. He will have failed if the team isn't winning this year and competing for the playoffs in 2012.

I am sure the White Sox weren't blindsided by him picking less money. I am sure there was a level where that wouldn't have been an issue. 

 

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I mean, the guy offered the most money.

That's all you can do.

For ONCE the White Sox implied they would not be outbid on a player and they actually weren't. 

Despite missing out, that really is a step in the right direction and a positive takeaway from this. It leads to more optimism. 

That's not all you can do.  You need to sell your org and your product and get players here. We are seeing a pattern where the Sox are being used as a stalking horse by agents and they seem to willfully play along. 

I can't believe there are Sox fans that are ok with this and think this is a step in the right direction. Sox fans truly are conditioned for failure. 

If this is your plan A, you need to prove you can close for once.

We should be all in on Stras-  7 years 210.  Cost Sox 6 mil more a year than what we likely offered Wheeler.  The last 2 years of contract might suck but we could always trade him.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I am sure the White Sox weren't blindsided by him picking less money. I am sure there was a level where that wouldn't have been an issue. 

 

I'd be willing to bet they were. 

And they had already crept up into the range where that contract was probably going to be ugly. 

1 minute ago, shakes said:

That's not all you can do.  You need to sell your org and your product and get players here. We are seeing a pattern where the Sox are being used as a stalking horse by agents and they seem to willfully play along. 

I can't believe there are Sox fans that are ok with this and think this is a step in the right direction. Sox fans truly are conditioned for failure. 

If this is your plan A, you need to prove you can close for once.

LOL everyone laughs at the Sox left and right when they put effort into their presentations and signing friends and family... everyone says, JUST OFFER THE MOST MONEY! Now they do that, and people are mad at the Sox for not selling themselves well enough and not being creative enough.

Enough. They offered the most. They lost out. It's not the teams fault and blaming them is just being angry to be angry. Good on the Sox for FINALLY offering the most money when they said they would. That should be the takeaway here.

The Sox shouldn't pay 10 million extra just because of some guys wife; jfc.

Just now, shakes said:

That's not all you can do.  You need to sell your org and your product and get players here. We are seeing a pattern where the Sox are being used as a stalking horse by agents and they seem to willfully play along. 

I can't believe there are Sox fans that are ok with this and think this is a step in the right direction. Sox fans truly are conditioned for failure. 

If this is your plan A, you need to prove you can close for once.

The guy spent the last few years a stone's throw away from his wife's family. Now he took a little less money to be a stone's throw away from his wife's family.  The rumors are Cole wants to be back on the West Coast, near where he grew up. It's not that big of a leap when the money is close.  If the Sox offered another year at $20mil and he turned it down, I'd agree with you. 

Also, he's never pitched in the AL, and there is still the DH stigma for AL pitchers and ERAs.  It sucks, but it doesn't define the Sox.  Machado did...this doesn't.

 

22 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

Every pitcher is risky, but I'd be shocked if people thought Bum, Keuchel and Ryu were less risky.. Ryu is glass man.  Keuchel has fallen far from the tree and Bumgarner is a ticking time bomb imo.

Can't win around here sometimes. We get all this talk about spin rates and analytics being a good sign ( " Bumgarner’s fastball/curve spin rates were near the apex of the league this season, ") yet somehow he is a ticking time bomb. It's very possible once his spin rates improve he had other adjustments he had to make in order to command those pitches and left a few too many in the middle of the plate . https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Bumgarner-Giants-free-agency-stock-rising-14879151.php

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/free-agent-faceoff-wheeler-vs-bumgarner-vs-ryu.html

There's a very good reason he's getting high offers already and has just as many teams after him as were after Wheeler.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I am sure the White Sox weren't blindsided by him picking less money. I am sure there was a level where that wouldn't have been an issue. 

 

Sox don't offer a free agent the most money: "Just offer the most! Why doesn't RH understand that players will sign wherever the most money is offered?!"

Sox do offer a free agent the most money and he signs somewhere else:  "Why didn't we offer more?!?!  Doesn't RH understand that we need to offer an amount that is even more than something that is already the highest?!?!"

I guess JR get a pass afterall. Not too often that is said.

1 minute ago, Justinsettle said:

We should be all in on Stras-  7 years 210.  Cost Sox 6 mil more a year than what we likely offered Wheeler.  The last 2 years of contract might suck but we could always trade him.

Don’t think that gets it done for Straus. With this market and big market teams involved he’s getting 225+