Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[ShoeLessRob]

I hate all these good teams trying to make their team even better. The audacity. 

[Capn12]

1 minute ago, JoeCredeYes said:

By all means, provide the list of elite offensive 2B that were realistically available.  They have the 5th highest payroll in the league, I'm not sure what you guys were realistically expecting them to do.  Yeah, this is a standard Sox move, I don't love it, I don't hate it, it's a guy for 1 year that can play a position of need competently.  

Yeah, I'm wondering myself who the Sox were supposed to bring in, instead? Whether we like it or not, we have x dollars that the organization is going to spend, and 2B is so much of a lesser concern, than RF and SP.

Hernandez was an absolute dog in a Sox uniform. He appeared to have no desire to be there, body language sucked, performance sucked, just.......sucked.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

Yeah, I'm wondering myself who the Sox were supposed to bring in, instead? Whether we like it or not, we have x dollars that the organization is going to spend, and 2B is so much of a lesser concern, than RF and SP.

Hernandez was an absolute dog in a Sox uniform. He appeared to have no desire to be there, body language sucked, performance sucked, just.......sucked.

And Yet, Cesar Hernandez was BETTER than Josh Harrison last year, the year before, the year before that, and the year before that. WIth that performance that... just sucked. 

Just because you didn't have to watch Harrison suck, doesn't mean he didn't suck. 

The Sox spent 13 million on Harrison/Leury/Velasquez. They could have had a competent second baseman for that price. Heck, Simmons can't hit but he can do one thing really well at least. He would have been a better get. The Sox could have signed Eduardo Escobar with their Harrison/Leury $ and still had their 3 million left over for Velasquez.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[JoeCredeYes]

3 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

Yeah, I'm wondering myself who the Sox were supposed to bring in, instead? Whether we like it or not, we have x dollars that the organization is going to spend, and 2B is so much of a lesser concern, than RF and SP.

Hernandez was an absolute dog in a Sox uniform. He appeared to have no desire to be there, body language sucked, performance sucked, just.......sucked.

Yeah I don't get the hate on a 1 year stopgap deal.  Cesar had to go, other than Semien and a Ketel pipedream trade who really excites anybody?  

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm not quite where ray is but the fact that the Sox have such great depth already with Burger, Dickman and Leury makes the move for Harrison even stranger. You spent 5.5 million for what? To get a .5 WAR upgrade in theory on the guys you already had? It's not like this is an Emilio Bonfacio -2 WAR situation where you have a smoking crater you need to backfill with whatever scrap you can dig up.

[Capn12]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And Yet, Cesar Hernandez was BETTER than Josh Harrison last year, the year before, the year before that, and the year before that. WIth that performance that... just sucked. 

Just because you didn't have to watch Harrison suck, doesn't mean he didn't suck. 

The Sox spent 13 million on Harrison/Leury/Velasquez. They could have had a competent second baseman for that price. Heck, Simmons can't hit but he can do one thing really well at least. He would have been a better get. The Sox could have signed Eduardo Escobar with their Harrison/Leury and still had their 3 million left over for Velasquez.

Trying to extract a dollar's worth of skill by spending 35 cents on many guys, isn't new for this organization. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was 100% dumb to spend 13 million on those 3 guys, absolutely. But, after the Leury money was spent in December, it was always going to go this way. We've all lived through the terrible 'hey lets try this below average guy' signings, that we do EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Other teams make these signings, for camp depth or minor league contracts. We seem to enjoy thinking dumpster diving for a 26 man roster, can work every year.

 

[JoeCredeYes]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And Yet, Cesar Hernandez was BETTER than Josh Harrison last year, the year before, the year before that, and the year before that. WIth that performance that... just sucked. 

Just because you didn't have to watch Harrison suck, doesn't mean he didn't suck. 

The Sox spent 13 million on Harrison/Leury/Velasquez. They could have had a competent second baseman for that price. Heck, Simmons can't hit but he can do one thing really well at least. He would have been a better get. The Sox could have signed Eduardo Escobar with their Harrison/Leury $ and still had their 3 million left over for Velasquez.

I'll agree they should have signed Escobar, should have traded for him last year frankly.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

I'll agree they should have signed Escobar, should have traded for him last year frankly.

Not even just that they should have, it's that he cost the same as the two scrubs they decided to sign. The Sox view two scrubs as depth as opposed to signing one actual starter as... you know, a starter. Having an actual starter sure limits the amount of "depth" you need. The Harrison move to me is as inexcusable to me as the Eaton signing. No one was lining up to give Eaton that contract and I guarantee you no one was lining up to give Josh Harrison 5.5 million dollars. Harrison was making 2 million and one million since he left Pitt. Even in Pitt in his "prime" he was making just over 6 million on his long term contract. 

I actually like plenty of what Hahn does, but his evaluations at the bottom of the market are just so atrociously bad.

[GermanSoxFan]

24 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

By all means, provide the list of elite offensive 2B that were realistically available.  They have the 5th highest payroll in the league, I'm not sure what you guys were realistically expecting them to do.  Yeah, this is a standard Sox move, I don't love it, I don't hate it, it's a guy for 1 year that can play a position of need competently.  

They are spending $10mil/yr to be lucky to squeeze 1 WAR out of those deals. I agree that there were not that many 2B available, but I‘d argue the Sox would have been better off letting Garcia go and not signing Harrison. Play Romy if thaese are the alternatives and allocate the resources elsewhere and I‘d argue the Sox would be better off in the grand scheme of things. Romy and Mendick give you replacement level play for basically free.

[pcq]

Seems like the Sox big-budget program was filed under 'death by a thousand tiny cuts.' They spent a ton of dough and instead of Malnatis butter crust deep dish spinach ended up with Yonder Alonzo's ex mother-in-law.

[quickman]

4 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

I'll agree they should have signed Escobar, should have traded for him last year frankly.

 

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And Yet, Cesar Hernandez was BETTER than Josh Harrison last year, the year before, the year before that, and the year before that. WIth that performance that... just sucked. 

Just because you didn't have to watch Harrison suck, doesn't mean he didn't suck. 

The Sox spent 13 million on Harrison/Leury/Velasquez. They could have had a competent second baseman for that price. Heck, Simmons can't hit but he can do one thing really well at least. He would have been a better get. The Sox could have signed Eduardo Escobar with their Harrison/Leury $ and still had their 3 million left over for Velasquez.

All great comments, Hahn got himself into this mess with his strategic thinking. He traded a controllable 2b away for a bloated expensive pitcher thinking a lights out backend would overcome all those big bats in houston. Then he got Caesar from cleveland with his 20 HR's and the plan was to take on his option, but Caesar clearly hated being a whitesox or he was lonely for his dog or something and completely sucked. So Hahn cut ties, Hahn had one hole last year in RF now he clearly has 2 still with RF and 2b and he still has a shitty bloated contract of a guy who is a baby and says he is a horrible pitcher unless he closes. So now they  are strapped with a much higher payroll and a bad contract that in all likelyhood will only bring back mid tier prospects. All because Hahn thinks he is so smart. So he is back to filling gaps with old players or players playing multiple positions so he can get a better bang for the buck. In the meantime the real world series contenders are ripping it up, signing stars and getting things done even through great trades. I think Hahn is the dumb one in all this and he might get it from KW who really hasn't done jack shit but remains because of loyalty from JR who doesn't have much time to waste listening to these two idiots. Sorry if I offended anyone. 

[caulfield12]

38 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's the White Sox MO.

They try and nickle and dime star players, to the point that they usually lose them to other teams in FA. Meanwhile, they overpay for scrubs and don't care about the nickles and dimes for them. It's just backwards logic. Guys like Leury and Josh Harrison are a dime a dozen, in a lot of cases they can be had with minor league invites! The Sox feel the lock those guys in by overpaying whatever market they even have, and then they go cheap for actual impact players.

See Jay and Alonso…the infamous Friends & Family Plan.  Would be nice to have that money back now.

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

See Jay and Alonso…the infamous Friends & Family Plan.  Would be nice to have that money back now.

FML.

[EloyJenkins]

i know we keep saying 5.5 mil...but isn't that is the price with the team buyout? Is it 4 mil for 2022? What is the salary for 2023? 

Edited March 15, 2022 by EloyJenkins

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

i know we keep saying 5.5 mil...but that is the price with the team buyout. It is 4 mil for 2022. What is the salary for 2023? 

I find this annoying as well.  Its $4M.  ITs only $5.5M if hes bought out.  I don't know the terms of the 23 option as I don't believe its been made public, but its probably $5-6M.   

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

i know we keep saying 5.5 mil...but isn't that is the price with the team buyout? Is it 4 mil for 2022? What is the salary for 2023? 

$5.5 million if he’s retained, the contract is either $5.5 million total or $9.5 million total.

[chw42]

3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

i know we keep saying 5.5 mil...but isn't that is the price with the team buyout? Is it 4 mil for 2022? What is the salary for 2023? 

It's $4 million, but if they buy him out it's $5.5 million. It counts as $5.5 million to the CBT since the $1.5 million is considered guaranteed money. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

$5.5 million if he’s retained, the contract is either $5.5 million total or $9.5 million total.

Where did you see the 23 option is $5.5M?  

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Where did you see the 23 option is $5.5M?  

I too saw it somewhere but can't find it. Somewhere here or someone shared it on Facebook.

Either way, a $5.5 guarantee, possibly $9.5 mill.

Edit: nvm I can't find it. I give up lol

Edited March 15, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Where did you see the 23 option is $5.5M?  

White Sox press release had the details

[KBX]

Hot stove has been more like nuking ramen in a mini microwave inside a dorm room. Looking forward to the season to start, and to finally judge the FO's offseason.

 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Where did you see the 23 option is $5.5M?  

Spotrac has it at $5.5.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/josh-harrison-8707/ 

[Quin]

Aaron Judge (and other Yankees, if Heyman is to be believed) about to risk a whole lotta games.

[Capn12]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

Aaron Judge (and other Yankees, if Heyman is to be believed) about to risk a whole lotta games.

Yep, Kyrie has missed a ton of games for it.

[Tnetennba]