Jesse Rogers: Sox Sign Benintendi - 5yr / $75M

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m surprised they signed him but also fully expect this now means Liam is traded. The bigger concern is whether the team is any better after a Liam trade than it was at the end of last year?

Added: Benintendi, Clevinger, Reyes, return from Hendriks trade

Subtracted: Abreu, Cueto, Pollock, Harrison, Engel, Hendriks

It’s a fair question, but I think there’s a lot more to it than just looking at the additions and subtractions. The pieces will fit much better with the 2023 team. Vaughn at 1B, Eloy at DH, and a much better outfield defense. I also think Colas will be a solid addition. 

[Chicago White Sox]

49 minutes ago, fathom said:

If he’s in it, I don’t think this board will like who the Sox give up (Liam and good prospects)

Biggio isn’t very good

[TheFutureIsNear]

4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

How many times do you think JR is gonna be "cool" with a 18m write-off?

Grandal is most likely going to get paid $18mil no matter what (unless there’s a bad contract for bad contract trade our there). So what’s the point of keeping him and why do you think Jerry would care? Pride? Ego? Spite? I also don’t think there are enough big contracts in Sox history to act like there’s any kind of precedent on cutting a big contract with 1 year left. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m surprised they signed him but also fully expect this now means Liam is traded. The bigger concern is whether the team is any better after a Liam trade than it was at the end of last year?

Added: Benintendi, Clevinger, Reyes, return from Hendriks trade

Subtracted: Abreu, Cueto, Pollock, Harrison, Engel, Hendriks

On paper now they’re a .500 team again right now with a solid bullpen as potentially the strongest part of the team. Ceiling above that and floor below that both plausible. If Hendriks goes, they aren’t. 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Biggio isn’t very good

Biggio sucks. 

BTW I like Vera as a prospect but he is in the Crochet mold that he got into the system too old to ever get out of the bullpen and build up his arm. I wouldn't be opposed to trading him. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The foodies are complete frauds.  I do think Hendriks gets dealt though.

If it were me, I’d do the following to wrap up the off-season:

• Trade Ramos, Vera/Mena & Sosa/Romy to TB for Lowe
• Trade Hendriks to TOR for Jansen and a pitching prospect
• Trade Zavala to TBD team for a live arm with options
• Sign Adam Duvall to a 1/$7M deal
• Sign Alex Reyes to a 1/$2M deal

Run with this for next year:

Lineup: 1) Anderson, SS | 2) Benintendi*, LF | 3) Vaughn, 1B | 4) Jimenez, DH | 5) Lowe, 2B* | 6) Robert, CF | 7) Moncada, 3B# | C) Jansen*, C | 9) Colas*, RF

 

Bench: IF) Gonzalez | OF) Duvall | UT) Garcia# | BC) Grandal#

Rotation: 1) Cease | 2) Lynn | 3) Giolito | 4) Kopech | 5) Clevinger

Bullpen: CL) Lopez | SU) Graveman | SU) Bummer* | MR) Kelly | MR) Diekman* | MR) Reyes | MR) Ruiz/Lambert | LR) Avila

Lowe if healthy is a savage but whenever the Rays want to get rid of someone that makes me nervous that they either still aren't healthy or are about to suck. 

Also I don't want to give up Ramos who Law thinks could be a monster and I'm sure with the Rays they will develop him. We don't need to go thru even a poor man's version of the Tatis debacle again. 

If TB would accept something that doesn't involve Colas/Montgomery/Ramos, definitely would consider it assuming our medical team isn't garbage with their player health evaluations.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, SoxBlanco said:

It’s a fair question, but I think there’s a lot more to it than just looking at the additions and subtractions. The pieces will fit much better with the 2023 team. Vaughn at 1B, Eloy at DH, and a much better outfield defense. I also think Colas will be a solid addition. 

I don’t disagree but, on paper, I see this collection of transactions as a lateral move. Don’t think they got better. So that means the carry overs from last season have to improve significantly to make a real run at this thing. I still think the roster severely lacks depth. They’re a couple injuries away from guys like burger, garcia, etc getting significant playing time again.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The foodies are complete frauds.  I do think Hendriks gets dealt though.

If it were me, I’d do the following to wrap up the off-season:

• Trade Ramos, Vera/Mena & Sosa/Romy to TB for Lowe
• Trade Hendriks to TOR for Jansen and a pitching prospect
• Trade Zavala to TBD team for a live arm with options
• Sign Adam Duvall to a 1/$7M deal
• Sign Alex Reyes to a 1/$2M deal

Run with this for next year:

Lineup: 1) Anderson, SS | 2) Benintendi*, LF | 3) Vaughn, 1B | 4) Jimenez, DH | 5) Lowe, 2B* | 6) Robert, CF | 7) Moncada, 3B# | C) Jansen*, C | 9) Colas*, RF

 

Bench: IF) Gonzalez | OF) Duvall | UT) Garcia# | BC) Grandal#

Rotation: 1) Cease | 2) Lynn | 3) Giolito | 4) Kopech | 5) Clevinger

Bullpen: CL) Lopez | SU) Graveman | SU) Bummer* | MR) Kelly | MR) Diekman* | MR) Reyes | MR) Ruiz/Lambert | LR) Avila

Wouldn’t the whole point of trading Hendriks be to shed money? Don’t think they would save much if any money if they did all these moves.

[maxjusttyped]

Biggio isn't good, but him in the strongside of a platoon would be fine if they're stuck shopping in the bargain bin at 2nd base.

[pcq]

25 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Narvaez is coming off a terrible season and just signed for 1 year 8M with a player option for year 2. 15M guaranteed if he wants it.

There would definitely be a trade market for Grandal if the Sox were willing to eat a few mil.

Grandal is crippled. I don't know what people are thinking. 

[SoCalChiSox]

5 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Grandal is most likely going to get paid $18mil no matter what (unless there’s a bad contract for bad contract trade our there). So what’s the point of keeping him and why do you think Jerry would care? Pride? Ego? Spite? I also don’t think there are enough big contracts in Sox history to act like there’s any kind of precedent on cutting a big contract with 1 year left. 

I guess it depends on what the FOs plan is for the rest of the offseason and how they plan on addressing other needs.

If they can attach a couple 10-20 prospects to Grandal and have someone eat half the money, it might be OK if you used that 9m to help defray costs for a good player and it could be better than having to send Liam away to make the payroll work. It's tough to say in the abstract without knowing the different options and cost/benefit.

[Chicago White Sox]

24 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Is Engel as the 4th outfielder a possibility still? 

Engel on a minor deal is fine, but we can’t count on him as our 4th OF.

[TheFutureIsNear]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I guess it depends on what the FOs plan is for the rest of the offseason and how they plan on addressing other needs.

If they can attach a couple 10-20 prospects to Grandal and have someone eat half the money, it might be OK if you used that 9m to help defray costs for a good player and it could be better than having to send Liam away to make the payroll work. It's tough to say in the abstract without knowing the different options and cost/benefit.

For sure it’s a crappy situation no matter what. And I’m not saying I’m confident that he will be cut…just saying that I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s going to all come down to his health and the FO (as inept as they can be) definitely know more than us. If they don’t think Grandal can be counted on to catch at least 85 games it’s going to be real hard to justify carrying him on the roster. 

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

On paper now they’re a .500 team again right now with a solid bullpen as potentially the strongest part of the team. Ceiling above that and floor below that both plausible. If Hendriks goes, they aren’t. 

They are better team than what ZiPS is projecting.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Lowe if healthy is a savage but whenever the Rays want to get rid of someone that makes me nervous that they either still aren't healthy or are about to suck. 

Also I don't want to give up Ramos who Law thinks could be a monster and I'm sure with the Rays they will develop him. We don't need to go thru even a poor man's version of the Tatis debacle again. 

If TB would accept something that doesn't involve Colas/Montgomery/Ramos, definitely would consider it assuming our medical team isn't garbage with their player health evaluations.

I’m Ramos’ biggest fan on this board but I’d deal him in a heartbeat for Lowe.  That’s the type of move (if it works) that greatly changes the potential of the team.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Wouldn’t the whole point of trading Hendriks be to shed money? Don’t think they would save much if any money if they did all these moves.

That Hendriks trade saves about $10M.  Adding Duvall is probably pushing it, but he’d be a perfect 4th OF for us so I threw him in there.

[SoCalChiSox]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

They are better team than what ZiPS is projecting.

Agreed. With TLR gone and a staff that will emphasize power and OBP instead of hitting grounders for average, they should be better than .500 already. And going from a clown and a 1B in the corners to 10D and Colas is worth a couple of defensive WAR just by itself. 

There's like a TON of things that all went wrong at the same time last year and a toxic locker room and they were still .500.

This is a good baseball team. Not good enough to beat HOU, NYY or a few other clubs but definitely good enough to be in the playoffs with some positive regression.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

49 minutes ago, fathom said:

Problem is the occasional start ends up being 4 games a week for the Sox.  We’ve seen this so often the last few years.

Ha! Unfortunately that's too true.

[35thstreetswarm]

50 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

It’s a fair question, but I think there’s a lot more to it than just looking at the additions and subtractions. The pieces will fit much better with the 2023 team. Vaughn at 1B, Eloy at DH, and a much better outfield defense. I also think Colas will be a solid addition. 

It always is.  Every year there are fans and media folks who take the simplistic predictive approach of "take last year as the baseline, now for every good player added add X wins, for every good player departed subtract X wins, the team will therefore have essentially the same season."  It almost never works that way.  It keeps fans and media from spotting emergent trends as they are busy re-litigating the prior season's developments.  Teams routinely make 20-win jumps without adding "20 wins" worth of players in the offseason, and vice versa.  There are way too many factors at work with too many players to just pretend each season is a continuation of the last one.  If four decades of watching baseball has taught me anything, it's that each individual season is an independent, living, breathing thing.

Edited December 17, 2022 by 35thstreetswarm

[southsider2k5]

38 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wasn't making fun of it.

Maybe Jaded is a better word? 

It wasn't a joke. The issue is that I take Sox baseball too damn seriously. 

This board is a big part of what keeps me ticking and makes life worth living for all of the s%*# I deal with. I didn't realize that until it was gone. 

It's like me saying I have autism because I hyper focus at times. It isn't the same thing and is an insult to those who really suffer.

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

It always is.  Every year there are fans and media folks who take the simplistic predictive approach of "take last year as the baseline, now for every good player added add X wins, for every good player departed subtract X wins, the team will therefore have essentially the same season."  It almost never works that way.  It keeps fans and media from spotting emergent trends as they are busy re-litigating the prior season's developments.  Teams routinely make 20-win jumps without adding "20 wins" worth of players in the offseason, and vice versa.  There are way too many factors at work with too many players to just pretend each season is a continuation of the last one.  If four decades of watching baseball has taught me anything, it's that each individual season is an independent, leaving, breathing thing.

Yeah people don’t need to be educated that the Sox strategy is “maybe we’ll be that random lucky team” and not one that makes sure they aren’t the bad side of it.

 

[pcq]

Twinks fans not happy so there is that. AB is all around decent and a step up from Pollock. Everyone knows the Sox had terrible OF defense so they have addressed a major weakness. 

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's like me saying I have autism because I hyper focus at times. It isn't the same thing and is an insult to those who really suffer.

Well, I suffer from both. It's pretty difficult to exist as an autistic person and not have PTSD. It bleeds over into my sports fandom because a lot of it is based on things that I have no control over.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[35thstreetswarm]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah people don’t need to be educated that the Sox strategy is “maybe we’ll be that random lucky team” and not one that makes sure they aren’t the bad side of it.

 

My comment wasn't even directed at the Sox specifically, so perhaps you should direct your comment elsewhere. 

[Texsox]

Baby steps in the right direction. I'm liking the idea of him in the #2 spot.