Cease To Padres per Passan

[The Beast]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Question for you guys.  I know you have Montgomery as a very good MI prospect and obviously a lot of you seem good with Ortiz coming back as part of the deal.

What if instead of Cowser or Kjerstad, the lead player was Westburg. Would that be ok with you or do you really want an OFer more?

Say the offer was Westburg and Beavers or Cowser/Kjerstad and Ortiz. And just for discussion purposes, let’s just say that Getz feels these are the best 2 deals on the table.  Which one would you prefer he takes? 

No, I think we need the OFer more. Outfield defense has been shaky at the corners and they have not had a true right fielder in a long time. They have trotted out so many first base types to the outfield that I would prefer getting an actual outfielder in return.

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with Sports Guy.  The O’s can afford to give up a third or fourth piece, but they won’t unless an offer from some other team forces them to.  Kjerstad/Cowser plus Ortiz/Norby is a very solid return for the White Sox.   These are major league ready guys with six years of service time each.  

 

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There won’t definitely be 3 or 4 pieces…if the first 2 pieces are better than anything else out there, there is no need to send more.

I am curious why both of you don’t seem to think there won’t be more than two players for Dylan Cease.

[Dick Allen]

Elias really built that organization up. I had no idea they were that stacked in the minors even after graduating studs. Learn a lesson White Sox. Wish JR hired him for the first rebuild instead of leaving it to Larry and Curly.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Elias really built that organization up. I had no idea they were that stacked in the minors even after graduating studs. Learn a lesson White Sox.

Obligatory at this point

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

problem is, the Orioles won't know what the other teams offers are. And they can't just sit and assume 2 players beats another teams 3/4. Because I'm sure other teams can beat that offer 

They will have a good idea. I think these teams know a lot more about what other teams are willing to do than we think.

The bottom line is this…no team is going to pay more than they have to. No one should ever pay more for something than they have to. I don’t care what it is your are buying or trading for.

The other aspect to this is can they shop that 2 player package for something else they like and get that deal done with that package. If so, that is probably the way they go.

The Os MAY (not definitely) have to trade 3 or 4 pieces but I suspect that if they do, neither Westburg, Cowser or Kjerstad are leading the deal or the 3rd and 4th players are nothing they care about losing.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

They will have a good idea. I think these teams know a lot more about what other teams are willing to do than we think.

The bottom line is this…no team is going to pay more than they have to. No one should ever pay more for something than they have to. I don’t care what it is your are buying or trading for.

The other aspect to this is can they shop that 2 player package for something else they like and get that deal done with that package. If so, that is probably the way they go.

The Os MAY have to trade 3 or 4 pieces but I suspect that if they do, neither Westburg, Cowser or Kjerstad are leading the deal or the 3rd and 4th players are nothing they care about losing.

Clutching onto prospects in your 10-30/40 range is weird.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, The Beast said:

No, I think we need the OFer more. Outfield defense has been shaky at the corners and they have not had a true right fielder in a long time. They have trotted out so many first base types to the outfield that I would prefer getting an actual outfielder in return.

 

I am curious why both of you don’t seem to think there won’t be more than two players for Dylan Cease.

Oh, I’m not saying there won’t.  Just that it won’t come from the O’s unless they are pushed hard.   Like Getz saying on Feb. 13, “I’ve got another deal I’m going to do unless you add X,” and Elias believing him.  

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

They will have a good idea. I think these teams know a lot more about what other teams are willing to do than we think.

The bottom line is this…no team is going to pay more than they have to. No one should ever pay more for something than they have to. I don’t care what it is your are buying or trading for.

The other aspect to this is can they shop that 2 player package for something else they like and get that deal done with that package. If so, that is probably the way they go.

The Os MAY (not definitely) have to trade 3 or 4 pieces but I suspect that if they do, neither Westburg, Cowser or Kjerstad are leading the deal or the 3rd and 4th players are nothing they care about losing.

I think you can take other trades into consideration. 2 top guys are good, if it's 3 or 4 guys, the last guy or two is more a lottery ticket than highly thought of prospect.

[SoCalChiSox]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Have you heard something?  Seems like a strange comment unless you got some info.  Focusing on Cowser and Ortiz?

This was my first thought too. 

Harold is hearing Cowser and Ortiz perhaps and maybe things are getting close. That's the feel of his post.

That's fine with me. I'm willing to accept 20 HRs from Cowser if there's also like 370 OBP, a decent glove and good speed. But if he turns into Beni....nah. Need at least 20 bombs tho.

Ortiz provides great insurance in case Montgomery can't stick at SS in which case Montgomery to 3B and Ramos to 2B. I just hope the bat is satisfactory. 

Who is the third piece Harold? 

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, The Beast said:

No, I think we need the OFer more. Outfield defense has been shaky at the corners and they have not had a true right fielder in a long time. They have trotted out so many first base types to the outfield that I would prefer getting an actual outfielder in return.

 

I am curious why both of you don’t seem to think there won’t be more than two players for Dylan Cease.

Like I just said, I think it’s possible there are more than 2 players. I just think using the word definitely is wrong.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

This was my first thought too. 

Harold is hearing Cowser and Ortiz perhaps and maybe things are getting close. That's the feel of his post.

That's fine with me. I'm willing to accept 20 HRs from Cowser if there's also like 370 OBP, a decent glove and good speed. But if he turns into Beni....nah. Need at least 20 bombs tho.

Ortiz provides great insurance in case Montgomery can't stick at SS in which case Montgomery to 3B and Ramos to 2B. I just hope the bat is satisfactory. 

Who is the third piece Harold? 

 

Is Harold someone who has contacts, or just a poster with an opinion?

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

This was my first thought too. 

Harold is hearing Cowser and Ortiz perhaps and maybe things are getting close. That's the feel of his post.

That's fine with me. I'm willing to accept 20 HRs from Cowser if there's also like 370 OBP, a decent glove and good speed. But if he turns into Beni....nah. Need at least 20 bombs tho.

Ortiz provides great insurance in case Montgomery can't stick at SS in which case Montgomery to 3B and Ramos to 2B. I just hope the bat is satisfactory. 

Who is the third piece Harold? 

 

Combine that with what the dude on the O’s forum said.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Clutching onto prospects in your 10-30/40 range is weird.

Again, that’s a wide range and not sure why people keep using that because it just isn’t that logical.

And no one is clutching onto them, it’s just why trade them if you don’t have to.

If you go to buy a house and you have the best offer, do you bid against yourself?

[Dick Allen]

If Elias was smart enough to built that organization like he did, he knows eventually he's going to have a 40 man roster crunch. Maybe not this year, maybe not next, but it's coming. Trades are a way to alleviate that. And there really aren't a lot of guys with Cease's skillset available at the salary he will make.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is Harold someone who has contacts, or just a poster with an opinion?

These are the posters who have some inside information..

@Y2Jimmy0 @macsandz @Harold's Leg Lift @fathom @ChiliIrishHammock24  and of course.. @Orlando

Edited December 28, 2023 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

If Elias was smart enough to built that organization like he did, he knows eventually he's going to have a 40 man roster crunch. Maybe not this year, maybe not next, but it's coming. Trades are a way to alleviate that. And there really aren't a lot of guys with Cease's skillset available at the salary he will make.

It’s not actually true that they have a 40 man crunch coming.

What is true is that they have a positional crunch coming. 

[SoCalChiSox]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is Harold someone who has contacts, or just a poster with an opinion?

The former.

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is Harold someone who has contacts, or just a poster with an opinion?

He’s an idiot

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

These are the posters who have some inside information..

@Y2Jimmy0 @macsandz @Harold's Leg Lift @fathom @ChiliIrishHammock24 

Ok..I didnt read Harold’s comment as anything other than just knowing the teams wants to build with defense more.

But maybe you guys know his posting tendencies enough to say he’s letting on more there than just that comment.

[SkokieSox]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with Sports Guy.  The O’s can afford to give up a third or fourth piece, but they won’t unless an offer from some other team forces them to.  Kjerstad/Cowser plus Ortiz/Norby is a very solid return for the White Sox.   These are major league ready guys with six years of service time each.  

What you want as an Orioles fan, and the assessment of what is “fair” is immaterial. 

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Combine that with what the dude on the O’s forum said.

Yeah now I feel something is legit close and also Jimmy has been speaking up quite a bit lately as to names and stuff in BAL packages specifically that would get a deal done. 

It may be irrational exuberance on my part but I feel there's alot of smoke now.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Again, that’s a wide range and not sure why people keep using that because it just isn’t that logical.

And no one is clutching onto them, it’s just why trade them if you don’t have to.

If you go to buy a house and you have the best offer, do you bid against yourself?

It’s going to be more than 2 pieces for sure, even if the last piece or two are lottery tickets.

Maybe Jack Flaherty will be available at the trade deadline again.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[Y2Jimmy0]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Elias really built that organization up. I had no idea they were that stacked in the minors even after graduating studs. Learn a lesson White Sox. Wish JR hired him for the first rebuild instead of leaving it to Larry and Curly.

The Orioles did something that Sox fans would've hated in the draft. They always significantly underslot early (Kjerstad, Cowser) to add talent throughout. It is tougher to do as a "large market" club because the Sox wouldn't have the extra money to play with from the free compensatory pick that Baltimore has been receiving for some reason. It's a pretty significant advantage if you also take the right players. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok..I didnt read Harold’s comment as anything other than just knowing the teams wants to build with defense more.

But maybe you guys know his posting tendencies enough to say he’s letting on more there than just that comment.

He has sources.

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

These are the posters who have some inside information..

@Y2Jimmy0 @macsandz @Harold's Leg Lift @fathom @ChiliIrishHammock24  and of course.. @Orlando

@Pal

[SoCalChiSox]

Harold, who is the third piece?

Povich, Beavers, Bradfield, some other BAL pitcher besides Povich?

And don't say you were just making a general comment....just fucking tell us already we've been waiting for this s%*# forever and I'm already pissed I didn't find LHS from BAL under my Christmas Tree on the 25th or in a stocking.

And no...the fact that Kjerstad or Cowser are too big to fit into a stocking is no excuse. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by SoCalChiSox