Chicago White Sox Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: You can’t pick one dude who has a handful of similar characteristics and expect it to be a meaningful comp. Whether it’s comping Mayo to Bryant or it’s comping every right handed hitting 1B to Andrew Vaughn. I guess I don’t understand what you mean by “meaningful comp”. I think from a physical and tools standpoint there are a lot of similarities there. I think from an offensive profile standpoint there are lot of similarities there. Again, I’m not suggesting he will become Kris Bryant (or is as talented), but I think it’s a solid comp of the type of player he could be (even if just a poor man’s version) and is a much better comp than the lumbering 1B type many are painting him as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Whisox05 said: With the prices remaining sky-high in the trade market for starters, the Orioles might consider looking more closely at free-agent starters. Corbin Burnes is almost surely staying in Milwaukee now, and Shane Bieber seems likely to stay in Cleveland, as well. The O’s talked a lot about Dylan Cease but still don’t seem close. The price for Cease is said by one GM (not Baltimore’s) to be “the sun and the moon.” Considering the dollar costs of free-agent starters, that may be about right. Straight to the Orioles...to infinity and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I guess I don’t understand what you mean by “meaningful comp”. I think from a physical and tools standpoint there are a lot of similarities there. I think from an offensive profile standpoint there are lot of similarities there. Again, I’m not suggesting he will become Kris Bryant (or is as talented), but I think it’s a solid comp of the type of player he could be (even if just a poor man’s version) and is a much better comp than the lumbering 1B type many are painting him as. If a guy’s ceiling is “Kris Bryant in his first 6 years” and you think that’s a legit possibility barring injury, you’d be out of your mind to trade that for a pitcher with 2 years of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grinder Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Im starting to think the jokes on us. Maybe we arent trading Cease. Getz and company are sitting back and laughing at all the fuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 45 minutes ago, The Grinder said: Im starting to think the jokes on us. Maybe we arent trading Cease. Getz and company are sitting back and laughing at all the fuss Ehhh. I'd rather hold tight than just trade him for whatever you can get. He does still have two years control and an offer like Norby + Ortiz + filler does very little to improve the future of this club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 23 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Ehhh. I'd rather hold tight than just trade him for whatever you can get. He does still have two years control and an offer like Norby + Ortiz + filler does very little to improve the future of this club. I personally think the offer is much more than this and Sox are holding out for too much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 15 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I personally think the offer is much more than this and Sox are holding out for too much Would you venture a guess what the offer is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Would you venture a guess what the offer is? My guess is Baltimore would trade one of Kjerstad/Cowser plus one of the second tier infielders and more. Guessing Cease is fixed on Basallo or Mayo or one of the OFs and Westburg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 If we all agree this team is going nowhere, even in this incredibly weak division, then help me understand why we are not trading Cease? Let’s don’t kid ourselves and think that Cease is Bob Gibson. Getz should be on the horn with Baltimore and ask for one of their top 5 prospects, one who’s from 6 to ten and another who’s from 11 to 15. i’m guessing all 3 of these players would immediately become a top 7 prospect in our organization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: My guess is Baltimore would trade one of Kjerstad/Cowser plus one of the second tier infielders and more. Guessing Cease is fixed on Basallo or Mayo or one of the OFs and Westburg Maybe there’s an offer out there he would accept but is just holding out to see what happens with the last couple of FAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, Johno said: If we all agree this team is going nowhere, even in this incredibly weak division, then help me understand why we are not trading Cease? Let’s don’t kid ourselves and think that Cease is Bob Gibson. Getz should be on the horn with Baltimore and ask for one of their top 5 prospects, one who’s from 6 to ten and another who’s from 11 to 15. i’m guessing all 3 of these players would immediately become a top 7 prospect in our organization In a deep farm, that’s kind of a bigger ask (like the guys outside the top 5 could be top 5 potentially in most orgs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 21 minutes ago, Johno said: If we all agree this team is going nowhere, even in this incredibly weak division, then help me understand why we are not trading Cease? Let’s don’t kid ourselves and think that Cease is Bob Gibson. Getz should be on the horn with Baltimore and ask for one of their top 5 prospects, one who’s from 6 to ten and another who’s from 11 to 15. i’m guessing all 3 of these players would immediately become a top 7 prospect in our organization Cease is the one asset that can bring back desperately needed high end talent and they need to maximize the return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 28 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Maybe there’s an offer out there he would accept but is just holding out to see what happens with the last couple of FAs. I really think it is a game of chicken at this point. Both sides likely know the ask and the offers, and perhaps Getz is just waiting for someone to blink? We still have a few weeks until pitchers and catchers report, maybe that adds some pressure to get something done? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 18 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: I really think it is a game of chicken at this point. Both sides likely know the ask and the offers, and perhaps Getz is just waiting for someone to blink? We still have a few weeks until pitchers and catchers report, maybe that adds some pressure to get something done? Maybe Getz blinks and the offer he accepts is something we all (well maybe not ALL) like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Pipeline has Ortiz at 63, which is higher than all the Yankees guys besides Dominguez. Also, Teel is already at 40….ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Mayo 30, Kjerstad 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Maybe Getz blinks and the offer he accepts is something we all (well maybe not ALL) like That's my hope too. Hold out for more knowing he can pivot to his real asking price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Johno said: If we all agree this team is going nowhere, even in this incredibly weak division, then help me understand why we are not trading Cease? Let’s don’t kid ourselves and think that Cease is Bob Gibson. Getz should be on the horn with Baltimore and ask for one of their top 5 prospects, one who’s from 6 to ten and another who’s from 11 to 15. i’m guessing all 3 of these players would immediately become a top 7 prospect in our organization I have been saying Cease wasn't likely to move the whole offseason, he's likely to wait until the trade deadline, for the following reasons. 1. Dylan Cease really did have a worse season last year than 2022. Some of the stats show this better than others, but it is absolutely true, his performance notably declined last year. Teams will recognize this and be uncertain what version of Cease they will get. 2. The White Sox are likely to ask for a trade on him based on his 2022, minimizing his 2023. Many teams will correctly look at this skeptically until they know which Cease they are getting - if Baltimore gave up one of their top 5 prospects and they get 2023 Cease, they have seriously hurt themselves. 3. There are substantially more options for teams right now. You have seen this play out over the offseason - the Braves are gambling on Sale being healthy, the Dodgers just signed James Paxton, teams aren't even willing to gamble a contract on a 2x Cy Young winner because he's been so inconsistent. Teams are able to convince themselves that they are better off holding prospects and trying gambles right now than paying a high prospect cost. 4. Teams are not feeling pressure of playoff hunts right now. The Orioles know they could use pitching, but they aren't desperate for it. There are too many things that could happen - if Rutschman were to get hurt early in the season it might not matter if they have pitching, if some pitcher steps up they might have other needs, even for everyone's favorite team there's lots of ways this can go that trading a high talent price for a pitcher right now could backfire on them even if the pitcher is strong. Unless they are getting a guy at a solid discount, teams do not have pressure on them to make moves right now, and the White Sox don't want to offer a guy at a big discount just to move him. 5. Dylan Cease has a strong record of health. He has the most starts in the big leagues over the last 3 seasons. While there is risk in holding him that he will get hurt, if you're going to gamble on anyone it's a guy who has been consistently healthy. If the White Sox can have Dylan Cease recover most of his 2022 form, then that removes a lot of the questions in #s 1 and 2 above by the time the trade deadline comes around. Overall, you're asking teams to pay a high price for a guy who didn't justify that price last year, in a situation where both the opposing teams and the White Sox can well justify waiting to see how things develop. That's a situation that leaves him unlikely to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I have been saying Cease wasn't likely to move the whole offseason, he's likely to wait until the trade deadline, for the following reasons. 1. Dylan Cease really did have a worse season last year than 2022. Some of the stats show this better than others, but it is absolutely true, his performance notably declined last year. Teams will recognize this and be uncertain what version of Cease they will get. 2. The White Sox are likely to ask for a trade on him based on his 2022, minimizing his 2023. Many teams will correctly look at this skeptically until they know which Cease they are getting - if Baltimore gave up one of their top 5 prospects and they get 2023 Cease, they have seriously hurt themselves. 3. There are substantially more options for teams right now. You have seen this play out over the offseason - the Braves are gambling on Sale being healthy, the Dodgers just signed James Paxton, teams aren't even willing to gamble a contract on a 2x Cy Young winner because he's been so inconsistent. Teams are able to convince themselves that they are better off holding prospects and trying gambles right now than paying a high prospect cost. 4. Teams are not feeling pressure of playoff hunts right now. The Orioles know they could use pitching, but they aren't desperate for it. There are too many things that could happen - if Rutschman were to get hurt early in the season it might not matter if they have pitching, if some pitcher steps up they might have other needs, even for everyone's favorite team there's lots of ways this can go that trading a high talent price for a pitcher right now could backfire on them even if the pitcher is strong. Unless they are getting a guy at a solid discount, teams do not have pressure on them to make moves right now, and the White Sox don't want to offer a guy at a big discount just to move him. 5. Dylan Cease has a strong record of health. He has the most starts in the big leagues over the last 3 seasons. While there is risk in holding him that he will get hurt, if you're going to gamble on anyone it's a guy who has been consistently healthy. If the White Sox can have Dylan Cease recover most of his 2022 form, then that removes a lot of the questions in #s 1 and 2 above by the time the trade deadline comes around. Overall, you're asking teams to pay a high price for a guy who didn't justify that price last year, in a situation where both the opposing teams and the White Sox can well justify waiting to see how things develop. That's a situation that leaves him unlikely to move. At this point just hold him until the deadline. Teams will be in the hunt for pitching and they can’t fallback on the free agent market mid-season. Just put the best defense behind him every time he takes the ball. If that means Brett Phillips is in RF once every 5 days so be it. Edited January 27 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I personally think the offer is much more than this and Sox are holding out for too much I don't think they're asking for too much. Teams see there are still other options available so at this time they're unwilling to be the one to step up and pay the price. Those options will eventually sign and there will be teams left with a serious need for top end pitching. Patience 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: My guess is Baltimore would trade one of Kjerstad/Cowser plus one of the second tier infielders and more. Guessing Cease is fixed on Basallo or Mayo or one of the OFs and Westburg Basallo and Holliday seem to be completely off limits. One area to agree with their posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 15 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: I don't think they're asking for too much. Teams see there are still other options available so at this time they're unwilling to be the one to step up and pay the price. Those options will eventually sign and there will be teams left with a serious need for top end pitching. Patience Yeah, once Snell and Montgomery sign you'll see teams put their best offers forward. We've got like 3 weeks until pitchers and catchers report, so I'd assume they'll both be signing before then. There's no point in taking whatever is being offered now (if it's not what you want) before seeing what the teams that miss out on free agents will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 17 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: I don't think they're asking for too much. Teams see there are still other options available so at this time they're unwilling to be the one to step up and pay the price. Those options will eventually sign and there will be teams left with a serious need for top end pitching. Patience Sure, but 2-3 more off the wall options like Domingo German are now coming into play. It’s much better for them to spend $5ish million or less and try to simply get through the first half on the backs of their offense and a massive jump forward from Grayson Rodriguez. They simply will not bend on 2/3 out of Cowser Kjerstad and Westburg. Starting to believe that not even Mayo is in play. But two of those guys and one third piece (Bradfield, Hall, etc.) would be more than enough to get it over the finish line tonight. So it keeps coming back to that second piece not being enough for Getz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, almagest said: Yeah, once Snell and Montgomery sign you'll see teams put their best offers forward. We've got like 3 weeks until pitchers and catchers report, so I'd assume they'll both be signing before then. There's no point in taking whatever is being offered now (if it's not what you want) before seeing what the teams that miss out on free agents will do. Knowing Boras, it will go into the spring since they’re $50-75 million apart on Snell offers and what he targeted as their values. Maybe as much as $240 vs $140 million spreads. Another team will suffer an injury in ST…and teams will feel time pressure of not starting the pitcher on a routine too late and Snell or Montgomery being more susceptible to an early season injury trying to catch up too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: My guess is Baltimore would trade one of Kjerstad/Cowser plus one of the second tier infielders and more. Guessing Cease is fixed on Basallo or Mayo or one of the OFs and Westburg IMO...if they are in fact offering one of Cowser/Kjerstad plus one of the second tier IFers and one of the two pitchers that is a good offer and ultimately should be accepted unless NYY gets desperate. I think Getz knows that BAL can't really sign anyone and Burnes isn't on the trade market so he can afford to just wait to see if NYY blinks in ST and is ultimately willing to put BOTH Jones and Hampton on the table plus a useful third piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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