South Side Hit Men Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: He said White Sox for life. That's a dream. It just doesn't happen any more with Free Agency. Twenty-four of the fifty-nine elected players which played for a single team did so under the Free Agency era, only three retiring before 1981 (Gibson, Oliva and Robinson). This despite the much shorter playing window (1871-1974 for pre-Free Agency vs. 1975-2018 for current eligible inductees). Free Agency (1975 Season): In Jeff Bagwell (Houston 1991-2005) Johnny Bench (Cincinnati 1967-1983) Craig Biggio (Houston 1988-2007) George Brett (Kansas City 1973-1993) Bob Gibson (Saint Louis 1959-1975) Tony Gwynn (San Diego 1982-2001) Todd Helton (Colorado 1997-2013) Derek Jeter (New York A. L. 1995-2014) Chipper Jones (Atlanta 1993-2012) Barry Larkin (Cincinnati 1986-2004) Edgar Martinez (Seattle 1987-2004) Joe Mauer (Minnesota 2004-2018) Tony Oliva (Minnesota 1962-1976) Jim Palmer (Baltimore 1965-1984) Kirby Puckett (Minnesota 1984-1995) Jim Rice (Boston 1974-1989) Cal Ripken Junior (Baltimore 1981-2001) Brooks Robinson (Baltimore 1955-1977) Mike Schmidt (Philadelphia 1972-1989) Willie Stargell (Pittsburgh 1962-1982) Mariano Rivera (New York A. L. 1995-2013) Alan Trammell (Detroit 1977-1996) Carl Yastrzemski (Boston 1961-1983) Robin Yount (Milwaukee 1974-1993) Solid Chance Jose Altuve (Houston 2011 - Current) Clayton Kershaw (Los Angeles N. L. 2008 - Current) Mike Trout (Los Angeles A. L. 2011 - Current) Potential Buster Posey (San Francisco 2009-2021) Joey Votto (Cincinnati 2007-2023) - Needs to not return to MLB for Toronto or another team. Lou Whitaker (Detroit 1977-1995) Teams without one or more single team Hall of Famers who have played since 1975: Original 16 MLB Teams (1901 - Current) - Philadelphia / Kansas City / Oakland Athletics (None) (1948 - Current) - San Francisco Giants (Mel Ott 1926-1947) (1951 - Current) - Chicago White Sox (Luke Appling 1930-1950) (1959 - Current) - Cleveland Guardians (Bob Lemon 1946-1958) (1970 - Current) - Los Angeles Dodgers (Don Drysdale 1956-1969) (1972 - Current) - Chicago Cubs (Ernie Banks 1953-1971) Expansion Teams (1961 - Current) - Washington Senators II & Texas Rangers (1961 - Current) - Los Angeles Angels (1962 - Current) - New York Mets (1969 - Current) - Montreal Expos & Washington Nationals (1977 - Current) - Toronto Blue Jays (1993 - Current) - Miami Marlins (1998 - Current) - Arizona Diamondbacks (1998 - Current) - Tampa Bay Rays PS - Red Faber was the third life long White Sox inducted into the HOF, joining Luke Appling and Ted Lyons. Edited March 14 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Last year we were a team going nowhere with a trash farm system. This year, we're a team going nowhere with a solid farm system. I'll take it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 23 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Abso-freaking-lutely That development system turned a high school shortstop into a top ten in the game prospect. Ramos came out of no where. Pallette and the highly lauded (here) Mena were also developed from the ground up. I've got no problem with our development. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Sox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Quin said: Dude, shut the f*** up Just read his name as Lonely Guy and the behaviour kind of makes sense. Anyways, as I mentioned I dig the return. The only oddity for me is the reliever, but I’m guessing he was a Bannister guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 26 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: Oh dear. The excitement for the deal hinges on Zavala having CF upside totally for me. I don't have access to the pay stuff but found this from a year ago. Quote Law wrote that Zavala has “absurd bat speed, rifling the bat through the zone with big hip rotation for hard contact and power, while he’s already shown unusual plate discipline for his age, especially when it comes to laying off pitches out of the zone. As a defender, he shows good instincts and routes, playing center so far more than right, but the odds are he’ll move to the corner in the long term. His combination of high-quality contact and excellent decisions at the plate point to a huge long-term upside, with the risk inherent in any (18-year-old) with only 411 career plate appearances to his name.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I also don't give a s%*# who "won" the trade. I just want the White Sox to improve. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I don't have access to the pay stuff but found this from a year ago. Don't feel like digging it up but Law is down on Zavala, saying he got some negative reports on the kid's level of effort/focus and has gotten more worried about his propensity to whiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I don’t love this trade. I don’t hate it. For the record all my takes were good. In general, in any trade of a strong starter I’d prefer the return to be headlined by a position player. Pitching prospects, it’s like there should be an acronym about how they aren’t reliable. But I’m more lenient on receiving pitching headliners for pitching. Trade pitching headlined by position player prospects - gold standard Trade position players headlined by a return of pitching player prospects - good trade pitching with pitching returned - acceptable trade position player with headlined return of pitching - not ideal. Have to be incredible like a 25 year old coming off TJS. I don’t really get the profile of Thorpe but clearly people like him. Or at least like trading him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, WestEddy said: That development system turned a high school shortstop into a top ten in the game prospect. Ramos came out of no where. Pallette and the highly lauded (here) Mena were also developed from the ground up. I've got no problem with our development. "I've got no problem with our development" is a statement about the White Sox that is going to make me go grab the next whiskey. Mostly, you're talking about Hahn's work there, and that is some of the worst development possible. They took a clear loaded #1 system and turned it into a playoff appearance. The system produced 1 playoff appearance, broke down, then 2 years later produced a 61 win roster. It is hard to imagine worse development. The hope is that the guys who were just hired will be a significant improvement, particularly on the pitching front. But so far, this is totally hope. They could be the best ever, but skepticism is warranted. 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Make this dude the closer, give him every save opportunity possible, and see what prospect(s) you can deal him for. Add that to the return on this trade. “Padres Rookie Right-Hander Steven Wilson Has a Captivating Pitch Profile“ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Jake said: Don't feel like digging it up but Law is down on Zavala, saying he got some negative reports on the kid's level of effort/focus and has gotten more worried about his propensity to whiff. At least now we can say that Law hates the White Sox again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 14 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Shouldn’t you be more worried about your team’s injuries and your new starter acquisition looking like a tee ball stand this spring? Hubris was birthed in Baltimore didn’t you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, joejoesox said: what's been his P/AB? does he get a lot of 3-2 counts, etc 3.7, about as low as it gets. Dude throw strikes and gets a lot of swing and misses. Two recipes for success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 36 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If he's not a CF defensively then this is a much weaker deal because a dozen minor league HR but a decent A-ball OBP is a Benintendi-type corner outfielder, unless he grows into more power with age? Lol…he’s a fucking 18 year old in A ball. His 14 HRs tied for 5th in the league. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) I hate to be that guy, but this team has me so conditioned to expect failure. We've been rebuilding since 2013. Going on 11 years. Let the perpetual rebuild continue. Seriously though...this s%*# is sad. Cease, Kopech and Giolito should have been the 3-headed monster of a rotation on a team on top of the world for seasons to come. We were supposed to have a lineup for riddled with all stars, headlined by Tim Anderson, Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jimenez, Luis Robert, Jose Abreu, Yasmani Grandal. I was promised multiple championships. Yet, here we are. Same fucking place we were back in 2017. This scenario should never have needed to happen. Cease is going to be a MONSTER. I fully expect this organization to f*** it up again. Edited March 14 by ScootsMcGoots 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: I also don't give a s%*# who "won" the trade. I just want the White Sox to improve. It will take a lot of successful development for this to actually make the White Sox improve. Hard to insist that they just got better today. They did get deeper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: At least now we can say that Law hates the White Sox again. He still said he’d be in his top 150. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, bmags said: He still said he’d be in his top 150. I like his profile a lot more than Head 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: "I've got no problem with our development" is a statement about the White Sox that is going to make me go grab the next whiskey. Mostly, you're talking about Hahn's work there, and that is some of the worst development possible. They took a clear loaded #1 system and turned it into a playoff appearance. The system produced 1 playoff appearance, broke down, then 2 years later produced a 61 win roster. It is hard to imagine worse development. The hope is that the guys who were just hired will be a significant improvement, particularly on the pitching front. But so far, this is totally hope. They could be the best ever, but skepticism is warranted. The GM acquired top end prospect talent then sat on his hands and hoped for the best. Never built even a second wave of talent or even average major league depth. Didn’t sign top FA talent, didn’t properly supplement. Nothing sustainable. The system was a barren wasteland after the top graduated. We are sifting through the aftermath today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It will take a lot of successful development for this to actually make the White Sox improve. Hard to insist that they just got better today. They did get deeper. Jerry said he hired Getz to win now, so have to take him at his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, fathom said: I like his profile a lot more than Head Also Law hasn’t factored in that we are siccing Grady Sizemore on him. That oughta do something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 8 minutes ago, Jake said: Don't feel like digging it up but Law is down on Zavala, saying he got some negative reports on the kid's level of effort/focus and has gotten more worried about his propensity to whiff. Once they outright Pedro Grifol to Winston-Salem as 1st base coach, he'll fix Zavala's @ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Last year we were a team going nowhere with a trash farm system. This year, we're a team going nowhere with a solid farm system. I'll take it. Imagine if that stupid f*** Hahn, managing for his job, had delivered that bad news to JR and started at least rebuilding a bit last offseason, and then JR, active, good owner that he is, was like "ha, you played yourself goodbye thanks for a headstart on the next good Sox team" and then hired an actual good outside GM to run the club? Keep imagining. Eventually you'll land on Sydney Sweeney in bed begging you to motorboat her. Edited March 14 by chitownsportsfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Tnetennba said: The GM acquired top end prospect talent then sat on his hands and hoped for the best. Never built even a second wave of talent or even average major league depth. Didn’t sign top FA talent, didn’t properly supplement. Nothing sustainable. The system was a barren wasteland after the top graduated. We are sifting through the aftermath today. That’s why I’m willing to give Getz a chance and roll my eyes at the “he was in charge of development” lines. He was given nothing to develop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Tnetennba said: The GM acquired top end prospect talent then sat on his hands and hoped for the best. Never built even a second wave of talent or even average major league depth. Didn’t sign top FA talent, didn’t properly supplement. Nothing sustainable. The system was a barren wasteland after the top graduated. We are sifting through the aftermath today. I fully agree. I wanted him fired after 2013. That doesn't mean I automatically give credit to and express confidence in his replacement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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