WBWSF Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) I hope the new stadium gets built. This is where it should have been built the last time instead of Bridgeport. That being said, if its not built I wonder what JR will do? Will he try to extend the present lease? Or will he try to move the team out of state? Or do something else? Edited February 21 by WBWSF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 18 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: I think the hatred is genetic. I find Sox fans who totally hate the Sox (which is weird) have a generational link to Bridgeport, Canaryville, Back of Yards, or Front of Yards going back to when the stock yards were there. The toxic noxious devilish smells and fumes the permeated the area for decades has altered the genetic makeup of those who lived through it and their descendants to the point were it manifests this hate-hate relationship with the area. Even if your only 1/4 or 1/8 descendant to ancestral stock yardians you could be at risk. And if any of you ancestors ever drank from bubbly creek you probably a ringleader. The so-called "hatred" is because for the vast majority of time this franchise has been around (save for the Golden Era 1951-1967) this team has had excuse after excuse after excuse as to why they can't consistently compete let alone win. Like Jack McDowell once said the reason the Sox can't win is because they have had bad owners, bad General Managers bad managers and bad players. Many Sox fans alive today haven't even had the pleasure of a long consistent stretch of good baseball, the last era was probably 2000-2006. If they are angry, upset, sarcastic...can you really blame them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 minutes ago, WBWSF said: I hope the new stadium gets built. This is where it should have been built the last time instead of Bridgeport. That being said, if its not built I wonder what JR will do? Will he try to extend the present lease? Or will he try to move the team out of state? Or do something else? JR won't be able to do anything since he will no longer be physically present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: The so-called "hatred" is because for the vast majority of time this franchise has been around (save for the Golden Era 1951-1967) this team has had excuse after excuse after excuse as to why they can't consistently compete let alone win. Like Jack McDowell once said the reason the Sox can't win is because they have had bad owners, bad General Managers bad managers and bad players. Many Sox fans alive today haven't even had the pleasure of a long consistent stretch of good baseball, the last era was probably 2000-2006. If they are angry, upset, sarcastic...can you really blame them? I don’t blame anyone. This is more like a bubonic plague, psychologically speaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: JR won't be able to do anything since he will no longer be physically present. I've been under the impression JR wants this deal done sometime this year. If that doesn't happen what will he do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 42 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: The so-called "hatred" is because for the vast majority of time this franchise has been around (save for the Golden Era 1951-1967) this team has had excuse after excuse after excuse as to why they can't consistently compete let alone win. Like Jack McDowell once said the reason the Sox can't win is because they have had bad owners, bad General Managers bad managers and bad players. Many Sox fans alive today haven't even had the pleasure of a long consistent stretch of good baseball, the last era was probably 2000-2006. If they are angry, upset, sarcastic...can you really blame them? You can even be generous and extend to 2012 thanks to 2008/10/12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, tray said: IMO ,JR and perhaps the ISFA would have more credibility if the Sox ownership group (or possible ISFA) acquired the 78 parcel to get Related the he11 out of there. The Sox could then develop their own plans and avoid some of the developer greed shown in the density of buildings and the site plan. If the Sox owns the whole parcel, now you are talking about something that could make more sense. I'm impressed by how silly this is. The White Sox have approximately zero experience developing and marketing the following things: hotels, apartments/condominiums, retail businesses not related to baseball, bars, full service restaurants, outdoor green spaces and parks, parking garages, major city developments, major environmental rehabilitation projects. Having Related involved in this effort gives it credibility as possible. If they didn't exist, the White Sox would be trying to find other companies to do this. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoUEvenShift Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 27 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: JR won't be able to do anything since he will no longer be physically present. You sure about that? I know no one wants to hear it but 6 years is not out of the question for him. He is coherent, walking on his own with no assistance, and unless he's hiding it from the public, does not have any degenerative disease. These uber wealthy people have access to state of the art health care and the best doctors money can buy. He's 87 now, if they finish by 2030 planned he'd be 93. Buffet 93, Soros 93, Murdoch 92, to name a few. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 41 minutes ago, WBWSF said: I've been under the impression JR wants this deal done sometime this year. If that doesn't happen what will he do? It pretty much has to get done by the end of the year. This is the deadline to extend the hotel tax to get the binds for public funding. There is no way the state will approve new taxes. They may not approve this. Either that or it's nearly all private funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I love that so many folks think that the money that is not being spent on the White Sox would somehow magically be spent in a way that makes the state or city landscape fiscally brighter. The hotel tax if not used to pay for the stadium will be used to pay down the pension shortage or help reduce property. The f..k it will! Look at Chicago and the new tax on the ballot for real estate transactions over $1M. Those funds are going to fight homelessness. The f..k they are! Those funds will go to some organization that "fights" homelessness with 90% lining a bureaucrats pocket and 10% going to some cause that may need the money but won't be enough to make a difference. If you live in Chicago/Cook/Illinois your quality of life is factored into all of this and hopefully your salary allows for you to enjoy. Tollways, hotel tax, gambling tax, cannabis, increased payroll and property tax.....none have resulted in a more efficiently run government yet Jerry is going to push us over the edge. Illinois/Cook/Chicago will spend what JR is asking on migrant services....with Jerry I sometimes see a good baseball game and if there is a concert that keeps me from having to go to Wrigley, I'm happy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I'm impressed by how silly this is. The White Sox have approximately zero experience developing and marketing the following things: hotels, apartments/condominiums, retail businesses not related to baseball, bars, full service restaurants, outdoor green spaces and parks, parking garages, major city developments, major environmental rehabilitation projects. Having Related involved in this effort gives it credibility as possible. If they didn't exist, the White Sox would be trying to find other companies to do this. The White Sox and ISFA could have tried this around the current joint. Sell some land to IIT to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: I love that so many folks think that the money that is not being spent on the White Sox would somehow magically be spent in a way that makes the state or city landscape fiscally brighter. The hotel tax if not used to pay for the stadium will be used to pay down the pension shortage or help reduce property. The f..k it will! Look at Chicago and the new tax on the ballot for real estate transactions over $1M. Those funds are going to fight homelessness. The f..k they are! Those funds will go to some organization that "fights" homelessness with 90% lining a bureaucrats pocket and 10% going to some cause that may need the money but won't be enough to make a difference. If you live in Chicago/Cook/Illinois your quality of life is factored into all of this and hopefully your salary allows for you to enjoy. Tollways, hotel tax, gambling tax, cannabis, increased payroll and property tax.....none have resulted in a more efficiently run government yet Jerry is going to push us over the edge. Illinois/Cook/Chicago will spend what JR is asking on migrant services....with Jerry I sometimes see a good baseball game and if there is a concert that keeps me from having to go to Wrigley, I'm happy. While I certainly don't lean right I've seen similar bloat in Seattle. Non profits are like crack to fairly wealthy big cities. They promise all the benefits of good governance with none of the oversight and budget constraints. Of course if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and like any bureaucracy if they actually solved the problems, they'd be downsized. City's waste money on s%*# constantly. There's an argument wasting it on sports arenas is a better bet than some new agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: While I certainly don't lean right I've seen similar bloat in Seattle. Non profits are like crack to fairly wealthy big cities. They promise all the benefits of good governance with none of the oversight and budget constraints. Of course if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and like any bureaucracy if they actually solved the problems, they'd be downsized. City's waste money on s%*# constantly. There's an argument wasting it on sports arenas is a better bet than some new agency. The 78 is actually a pretty good plan to have an ROI as opposed to Bridgeport, the gentrification just never made it that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: The White Sox and ISFA could have tried this around the current joint. Sell some land to IIT to build. There's no way you're getting high density development around the current joint. Too far from downtown! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 31 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: The so-called "hatred" is because for the vast majority of time this franchise has been around (save for the Golden Era 1951-1967) this team has had excuse after excuse after excuse as to why they can't consistently compete let alone win. Like Jack McDowell once said the reason the Sox can't win is because they have had bad owners, bad General Managers bad managers and bad players. Many Sox fans alive today haven't even had the pleasure of a long consistent stretch of good baseball, the last era was probably 2000-2006. If they are angry, upset, sarcastic...can you really blame them? It's very likely Jerry Reinsdorf will end with an overall losing record owning the White Sox. They are 3,374-3,363-4 .501 entering this season. They will likely also finish the 2020s under .500 for the decade (258-251 through 2023), and possibly for all time before the end of the decade (9,553-9,491-103 .5016) unless Jerry is replaced soon. Over 80% of fans attending games cannot even remember a winning ownership group (Arthur Allyn Jr & John Allyn) through 1968. Records for completed decades / tenures. (6) White Sox Winning Decades World Series Appearances .5625 1901-1909 (744-575-34) 1906 World Series Championship .5496 1950-1959 (847-693-13) 1959 American League Pennant .5351 1910-1919 (798-692-18) 1917 World Series Championship & 1919 American League Pennant .5287 2000-2009 (857-764) 2005 World Series Championship .5285 1960-1969 (852-760-2) .5261 1990-1999 (816-735-3) (4) White Sox Winning Ownership Tenures World Series Appearance Seasons .558 Dorothy Comiskey Rigney 1957-1958 (172-136-2) .556 Bill Veeck Junior First Ownership Group 1959 - June 11, 1961 (201-160-2) 1959 A. L. Pennant .545 Arthur Allyn Junior & John Allyn June 12, 1961 - 1968 (677-566-2) .514 Charles Comiskey 1901-1931 (2391-2260-62) 1906 & 1917 World Series; 1919 A. L. Pennant (4) White Sox Winning General Manager Tenures World Series Appearance Seasons .565 Hank Greenberg 1959 - August 26, 1961 (246-189-2) 1959 A. L. Pennant .556 John Rigney & Charles Comiskey II 1956-1958 (257-205-2) .534 Charles Comiskey 1901-1914 (1115-968-48) 1906 World Series Championship .527 Ron Schueler 1991-2000 (817-734-3) .521 Kenny Williams 2001-2012 (1014-931) 2005 World Series Championship .511 Ed Short August 26, 1961 - September 1, 1970 (749-717-2) .504 Stu Holcomb September 1, 1970 - 1972 (173-170) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 41 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said: You sure about that? I know no one wants to hear it but 6 years is not out of the question for him. He is coherent, walking on his own with no assistance, and unless he's hiding it from the public, does not have any degenerative disease. These uber wealthy people have access to state of the art health care and the best doctors money can buy. He's 87 now, if they finish by 2030 planned he'd be 93. Buffet 93, Soros 93, Murdoch 92, to name a few. He's buried three generations of Wirtz' and wouldn't be surprised if he outlived many on this board. Spite alone might push him into the 2040s or 2050s. Perhaps he'll even outlive Virginia McCaskey. Keith Richards, however, might be a bridge too far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: There's no way you're getting high density development around the current joint. Too far from downtown! You have no idea what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, tray said: You have no idea what you are talking about. Well with all of the details you have provided here and the well reasoned, sensible argument I'm sure everyone reading your post will be impressed and convinced. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 20 minutes ago, tray said: You have no idea what you are talking about. Let's see, we have 115 years of history at 35th and Shields, or that Tray said so. Hmmmm.... Also, I see you are really working hard on not making it personal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 https://www.chicagobusiness.com/sports/chicago-white-sox-need-new-stadium-compete-stay-city-jerry-reinsdorf He said the same thing in the 1980s, and he changed nothing over time. Anything else worth while in the piece (cut off after a few sentences for me)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Answer: baseball White Sox and Reinsdorf. Question: name the three least popular things in Illinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 minutes ago, pcq said: Answer: baseball White Sox and Reinsdorf. Question: name the three least popular things in Illinois. Tray's answer: Andrew Vaughn, trains, soil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/sports/chicago-white-sox-need-new-stadium-compete-stay-city-jerry-reinsdorf He said the same thing in the 1980s, and he changed nothing over time. Anything else worth while in the piece (cut off after a few sentences for me)? And there it is. If he actually took the White Sox out of the area as a 90+ year old, he might be known as the biggest asshole ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 If you lived in Austin or Nashville or Portland or Salt Lake Ciry and had a choice of expansion team or Jerry Reinsdorf, you would pick expansion team. Las Vegas is realizing that right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Clearly the reason the Sox usually suck is GRF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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