I’m tired of these types of posts

[bmags]

see a lot of these, and I think they are supposed to create this feeling of “wow we are so much better than last year!”

But it hits different when last year we were one of the worst offenses in the 150 year history of baseball and has 41 wins.

We could have rolled the exact same team back and struggled to hit marks that bad.

This team is 100% more enjoyable, and I’m happy for our young hitters,  but we’ll be clawing to hit 61 wins. 
 

61 wins for any other franchise is horrific, and for us it’s being repackaged as incredible just because of our record setting ineptitude.

[The Mighty Mite]

38 minutes ago, bmags said:

see a lot of these, and I think they are supposed to create this feeling of “wow we are so much better than last year!”

But it hits different when last year we were one of the worst offenses in the 150 year history of baseball and has 41 wins.

We could have rolled the exact same team back and struggled to hit marks that bad.

This team is 100% more enjoyable, and I’m happy for our young hitters,  but we’ll be clawing to hit 61 wins. 
 

61 wins for any other franchise is horrific, and for us it’s being repackaged as incredible just because of our record setting ineptitude.

Yep, we were historically bad last year so what I’m getting from your take is that it was impossible not to improve but the way the team played in April of this year I thought they were trying for a repeat of the 41 wins of last year. 

[Middle Buffalo]

Well, we were really bad last year. A 20 win improvement and 100+ improvement in runs scored is noteworthy.

I’s be less excited about it if the major contributors were veterans. Most of our success has been driven by our young core. 
 

[Tony]

All correct. 

We've seen it done in other walks as life as well recently. The bar gets lowered so dramatically, so quickly, a lot of people don't know how to process it. 

"Hey dad, you know how I always wreck the cars you buy me? Well I got into another accident, but this time I didn't total it!"

I'm not celebrating that as a victory, I want you to stop getting into accidents. 

[WestEddy]

I completely support everyone here in being angry that this rebuilding team isn't in first place and vying for top playoff seed. But we're watching a rebuild. I know Reinsdorf said something at a press conference two years ago. I know we just watched a rebuild start about 9 years ago, after a false start 4 years before that. The reality is that this team has mostly released their starters who bottomed out, then traded the ones with any value. Now they're bringing up prospects as they earn their spots. I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to be competing for first place right now, but that's fine if you do. 

It's nice to have markers to measure how this team is improving. As opposed to regularly decrying the number of losses amassed in the last 3 seasons. If that's what you want to do, please do it. And there are certainly thousands of posts around social media that will help you do that. I'm more interested in watching this team get built. Just as I wouldn't show up at the work site of a future YMCA in my gym clothes, then scream obscenities every day I don't have a finished gym to work out in. 

I'm not attacking anybody's viewpoint here, so please don't tell me how I'm sub-human, or I'm doing everything I'm (not) accusing everybody else of. I'm not rushing in to defend Chris Getz, or Jerry Reinsdorf. Just explaining the mindset of those of us that watch baseball and find something to root for in any kind of season, championship, middling or rebuild. 

Keep calm and carry on.

[bmags]

41 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I completely support everyone here in being angry that this rebuilding team isn't in first place and vying for top playoff seed. But we're watching a rebuild. I know Reinsdorf said something at a press conference two years ago. I know we just watched a rebuild start about 9 years ago, after a false start 4 years before that. The reality is that this team has mostly released their starters who bottomed out, then traded the ones with any value. Now they're bringing up prospects as they earn their spots. I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to be competing for first place right now, but that's fine if you do. 

It's nice to have markers to measure how this team is improving. As opposed to regularly decrying the number of losses amassed in the last 3 seasons. If that's what you want to do, please do it. And there are certainly thousands of posts around social media that will help you do that. I'm more interested in watching this team get built. Just as I wouldn't show up at the work site of a future YMCA in my gym clothes, then scream obscenities every day I don't have a finished gym to work out in. 

I'm not attacking anybody's viewpoint here, so please don't tell me how I'm sub-human, or I'm doing everything I'm (not) accusing everybody else of. I'm not rushing in to defend Chris Getz, or Jerry Reinsdorf. Just explaining the mindset of those of us that watch baseball and find something to root for in any kind of season, championship, middling or rebuild. 

Keep calm and carry on.

One thing about the Sox , and their media that’s left, is they will only even point to their successes in relation to their previous failures. Their only benchmark is to themselves.

In that respect, going 41-121 was one of their greatest accomplishments. Because now, in the middle of a 3rd straight 100 loss season, they can point to last year and say “haha oh my gosh we’ve already scored as many runs as last year!”

Meanwhile they’re 7 games back from the third worst record in the league.

 

At some point, the Sox will need to say “I’m trying to compete with the best in mlb” not “I’m trying to marginally improve over myself each year”

[caulfield12]

But a 50% improvement is amazing!!!

Well, not if you invested into a Cathie Wood fund...

 

It's all about perspective and expectations, though.

Definitely more of a positive/optimistic vibe because of July/August Colson Robert Sosa and Teel despite the losing record in recent weeks.

[Autumn Dreamin]

As someone who got accused of "gaslighting" in spring training threads for suggesting they weren't evidence of another 120 loss season being imminent, it's kind of funny  to see a sort of "well, progress was inevitable" take.

The team was obviously set to break their own record, until they weren't, at which point it became apparently obvious that they were never going to I guess.

And in a sense I actually agree that they were never going to! Last year required so many things to go wrong that it would be hard to repeat that outcome if you tried. But also  saying that a few months ago got you accused of shilling for Getz' dumpster dive signings or whatever.

Regardless, even though improvement was necessary, or even inevitable, the nature, magnitude, and source of that improvement is still relevant. Not because of what they say about the low bar of last season but because of how they might project going forward.

It matters if they can convert MiLB success to the majors, or change approaches to hit for more power, or identify swing/stuff tweaks to reclaim past talent from their acquisitions, or build a cohesive clubhouse atmosphere, or otherwise improve in any number of ways.

We know they need all of these improvements, we want them to happen, but apparently don't want them talked about until it's all done I guess?

I don't know. My last paycheck didn't make me a millionaire or even get me measurably closer, but I'm not upset when the bank tells me how much it was just because previously being a broke college student set a low water mark.

[southsider2k5]

41 minutes ago, bmags said:

One thing about the Sox , and their media that’s left, is they will only even point to their successes in relation to their previous failures. Their only benchmark is to themselves.

In that respect, going 41-121 was one of their greatest accomplishments. Because now, in the middle of a 3rd straight 100 loss season, they can point to last year and say “haha oh my gosh we’ve already scored as many runs as last year!”

Meanwhile they’re 7 games back from the third worst record in the league.

 

At some point, the Sox will need to say “I’m trying to compete with the best in mlb” not “I’m trying to marginally improve over myself each year”

I will never understand the need to lecture people who are upset about the state of this franchise.  It's still incredibly bad, and will be for the near future. 

[WestEddy]

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will never understand the need to lecture people who are upset about the state of this franchise.  It's still incredibly bad, and will be for the near future. 

Could you please stop doing this? You didn't get lectured about being upset about the franchise. It sucks when we try to explain why we're positive to people who express befuddlement about that, and you're there, every single time, to bully us into shutting up. 

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Could you please stop doing this? You didn't get lectured about being upset about the franchise. It sucks when we try to explain why we're positive to people who express befuddlement about that, and you're there, every single time, to bully us into shutting up. 

This post never asked you why you were positive, you just made it about yourself anyway. 

In any other context aside from the white sox it would be clear that saying "hey, you are the second worst team in baseball, but guess what, you now have more runs than the worst team in major league history" would not be like...an incredible accomplishment.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

One thing about the Sox , and their media that’s left, is they will only even point to their successes in relation to their previous failures. Their only benchmark is to themselves.

In that respect, going 41-121 was one of their greatest accomplishments. Because now, in the middle of a 3rd straight 100 loss season, they can point to last year and say “haha oh my gosh we’ve already scored as many runs as last year!”

Meanwhile they’re 7 games back from the third worst record in the league.

 

At some point, the Sox will need to say “I’m trying to compete with the best in mlb” not “I’m trying to marginally improve over myself each year”

I wouldn't expect a team to keep railing on themselves for a losing record during a rebuild. 

I'm a fan, too, and sometimes have to explain to my wife why I was swearing at my TV last night. The losing is frustrating. But for the team trying to sell tickets, or rebuild any kind of momentum, again, I wouldn't expect them to be telling everyone how much of a failure the Benintendi signing was, or that this will be the first time they lose 100 games 3 seasons in a row. 

And here's an article in CHGO today about how the team's goal is competing, and soon. 

How should the 2025 White Sox be measured?

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

This post never asked you why you were positive, you just made it about yourself anyway. 

I thought I was engaging in a discussion about pointing out positive momentum during an otherwise bad season. 

I don't generally recognize which strings I'm not supposed to participate in. My opinion and experience are all I have to represent. 

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

As someone who got accused of "gaslighting" in spring training threads for suggesting they weren't evidence of another 120 loss season being imminent, it's kind of funny  to see a sort of "well, progress was inevitable" take.

The team was obviously set to break their own record, until they weren't, at which point it became apparently obvious that they were never going to I guess.

And in a sense I actually agree that they were never going to! Last year required so many things to go wrong that it would be hard to repeat that outcome if you tried. But also  saying that a few months ago got you accused of shilling for Getz' dumpster dive signings or whatever.

Regardless, even though improvement was necessary, or even inevitable, the nature, magnitude, and source of that improvement is still relevant. Not because of what they say about the low bar of last season but because of how they might project going forward.

It matters if they can convert MiLB success to the majors, or change approaches to hit for more power, or identify swing/stuff tweaks to reclaim past talent from their acquisitions, or build a cohesive clubhouse atmosphere, or otherwise improve in any number of ways.

We know they need all of these improvements, we want them to happen, but apparently don't want them talked about until it's all done I guess?

I don't know. My last paycheck didn't make me a millionaire or even get me measurably closer, but I'm not upset when the bank tells me how much it was just because previously being a broke college student set a low water mark.

How would you feel if your boss told you “hey, it’s ok that you are making 40% less than your peers doing the same work, you are up 20% from your low!”

[bmags]

Anyway my point isn’t “all progress tweets are bad”.

 

The ones about our scoring since the ASB, compared against all mlb teams and showing us top 5 or whatever? Awesome, because that’s what we need to be a good team.

Showing us better than the worst team of all time? Cool I guess.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Could you please stop doing this? You didn't get lectured about being upset about the franchise. It sucks when we try to explain why we're positive to people who express befuddlement about that, and you're there, every single time, to bully us into shutting up. 

Yep, right on cue.  Too easy.

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

Anyway my point isn’t “all progress tweets are bad”.

 

The ones about our scoring since the ASB, compared against all mlb teams and showing us top 5 or whatever? Awesome, because that’s what we need to be a good team.

Showing us better than the worst team of all time? Cool I guess.

Did this post pass muster with the Soxtalk Purity Committee?  

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will never understand the need to lecture people who are upset about the state of this franchise.  It's still incredibly bad, and will be for the near future. 

they're called fan lessons

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will never understand the need to lecture people who are upset about the state of this franchise.  It's still incredibly bad, and will be for the near future. 

Maybe you didnt notice that the lecture thread just started was someone tired of posts about incremental steps foward which has to happen after you reach rock bottom. No one is throwing a party. It's just hey Im enjoying things more than last year. Maybe you want to segregate Soxtalk into Poohs and Eeyores sections where we all hang out with our own kind so the Eeyores in charge don't remove posts of the forward looking people or accuse them of gaslighting.

I guaranteed the Jedi section would have more people starting game threads and rooting for victories while the Eeyores continue to ignore game threads like they have been. You know who you are. 

I'm sure there are people who consider themselves in the middle . Just remember if you're still here yelling fire Getz and Colson is a bum every day that youll be here jumping on the bandwagon once it starts gaining momentum. Sorry if some of you can't acknowledge the momentum has started already because the previous rebuild broke your wittle hearts. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe you didnt notice that the lecture thread just started was someone tired of posts about incremental steps foward which has to happen after you reach rock bottom. No one is throwing a party. It's just hey Im enjoying things more than last year. Maybe you want to segregate Soxtalk into Poohs and Eeyores sections where we all hang out with our own kind so the Eeyores in charge don't remove posts of the forward looking people or accuse them of gaslighting.

I guaranteed the Jedi section would have more people starting game threads and rooting for victories while the Eeyores continue to ignore game threads like they have been. You know who you are. 

I'm sure there are people who consider themselves in the middle . Just remember if you're still here yelling fire Getz and Colson is a bum every day that youll be here jumping on the bandwagon once it starts gaining momentum. Sorry if some of you can't acknowledge the momentum has started already because the previous rebuild broke your wittle hearts. 

Watching the Astros dominate the Sox in 2021... it almost felt inevitable as that season was winding down, going on the road (just like 2008 without Quentin.)

2020 was actually more heartbreaking because most believed they had a pretty decent chance to win.  (But the Crochet injury and Keuchel debacle...)

So the Sox never came close to experiencing "unprecedented financial flexibility"...for the front office, that meant Grandal Keuchel Lynn Hendriks Kimbrel Graveman Kelly instead.

But never ever a real superstar like a Machado or Bryce Harper.

 

"Can't afford to waste a year."

Too much B.S. to put it all in the rearview mirror, one that extends all the way back to SportsVision, the White Flag trade and 1994.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

My issue is no one would ever be excited about a 100 loss team, if they hadn't lost 120.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

My issue is no one would ever be excited about a 100 loss team, if they hadn't lost 120.

Yeah it’s not like they’re going from 65 wins to 85 wins. They’re going from “historically awful” to “still really bad”

[Lip Man 1]

43 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah it’s not like they’re going from 65 wins to 85 wins. They’re going from “historically awful” to “still really bad”

Exactly. 

[Snopek]

Honest question for those of you “pointing out” that the team is actually still bad:

Do you feel like you’re sharing new information that others were not aware of?

Because it 100% comes off that way.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe you didnt notice that the lecture thread just started was someone tired of posts about incremental steps foward which has to happen after you reach rock bottom. No one is throwing a party. It's just hey Im enjoying things more than last year. Maybe you want to segregate Soxtalk into Poohs and Eeyores sections where we all hang out with our own kind so the Eeyores in charge don't remove posts of the forward looking people or accuse them of gaslighting.

I guaranteed the Jedi section would have more people starting game threads and rooting for victories while the Eeyores continue to ignore game threads like they have been. You know who you are. 

I'm sure there are people who consider themselves in the middle . Just remember if you're still here yelling fire Getz and Colson is a bum every day that youll be here jumping on the bandwagon once it starts gaining momentum. Sorry if some of you can't acknowledge the momentum has started already because the previous rebuild broke your wittle hearts. 

And here is notice me #2.  Maybe you just need your own safe space so you can reassure yourself how right you actually are all of the time since you don't get enough from everyone else and it makes you so darned mad all the time.

Keep defending the Empire, I will fight back.