Genuine progress

[chitownsportsfan]

17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The offense is undeniably better and has taken a positive step in the right direction. 

My only hesitance is that most of this is driven by guys we acquired from other orgs who had developed a lot within those orgs. Guys like Teel, Tauchman and Vargas are lifting heavy on the walk side, and guys like Quero and Miedroth are carrying some good weight on the strikeout side.

In order for me to trust the organizational change, I'd like to see us scout and develop this more than scout and trade for it. 

That said, they have 7 guys who are league average or better with the bat. Of those seven though, only TWO grade out + as defenders (Monty and Teel). Progress is progress, but a lot of room to go.

On the flip side though, almost all the growth we've seen offensively has regressed on the pitching side which is a huge bummer. 

Overall agree but in order to develop talent you gotta first ID it. Can't turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad and all that. So I'll give Getz a job well done for IDing guys that have a good batting eye. I never wanted to believe it but Moncada didn't have a good eye he just took a shitload of pitches and when he got to MLB that wasn't going to work anymore.

[almagest]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I said this during the last rebuild, and still stand by it.  We can try to sell the guys who we traded for all we like, but if the farm system Chris Getz hired someone new to be in charge isn't hugely more successful than the farm system Chris Getz himself was in charge of, this is all just masterbation theater.  It's all about player development.  Hell at this phase of the last rebuild, Rick Hahn was getting GM of the year mentions.

Sox currently have four guys they drafted in the MLB top 100, with Braden Montgomery as the fifth - he never played for the Red Sox so I'll count him. From 2013 - 2023 the Sox had 11 total players they drafted in the top 100, never having more than two per year.

Of course all these guys can wash out, but this is homegrown depth we haven't had since the late 90s.

[wegner]

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The White Sox have the second worst record in MLB.

The Prosecution rests, your honor.

[GreenSox]

I would think the  Sox could improve on movement and base-stealing (but for Robert, the Sox would be last in the league).  They don't seem that unathletic to me (other than a couple of vets).  Brewers lead the league in steals and caught stealing.  Their c .75% success percentage is bottom 1/3; but I guess they've done the math and figured  it still yields a positive expected outome.   Sox are just a tad under 80% (Robert's a tad > 80% so it's not him pulling everyone up).  Venable's right-hand man is a long-time Brewer, so it's surprising that the Sox haven't run more.
Now maybe it will come when the Sox get more youthful in the other OF spots.

[bmags]

48 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The offense is undeniably better and has taken a positive step in the right direction. 

My only hesitance is that most of this is driven by guys we acquired from other orgs who had developed a lot within those orgs. Guys like Teel, Tauchman and Vargas are lifting heavy on the walk side, and guys like Quero and Miedroth are carrying some good weight on the strikeout side.

In order for me to trust the organizational change, I'd like to see us scout and develop this more than scout and trade for it. 

That said, they have 7 guys who are league average or better with the bat. Of those seven though, only TWO grade out + as defenders (Monty and Teel). Progress is progress, but a lot of room to go.

On the flip side though, almost all the growth we've seen offensively has regressed on the pitching side which is a huge bummer. 

After how bad they have been even signing marginal free agents that'd be released by June, I think Tauchman is a good step if only to believe that when we get better they will be able to supplement correctly.

[Quin]

21 minutes ago, almagest said:

Sox currently have four guys they drafted in the MLB top 100, with Braden Montgomery as the fifth - he never played for the Red Sox so I'll count him. From 2013 - 2023 the Sox had 11 total players they drafted in the top 100, never having more than two per year.

Of course all these guys can wash out, but this is homegrown depth we haven't had since the late 90s.

Fulmer, Hansen, Collins.

[bmags]

But, regardless of whether they can put the whole offense together, main point was 3 years at the absolute bottom of walk percentage was horrific. It's nice to see it move into the top half in one year and not just settling for being 25th or something.

[Tony]

24 minutes ago, almagest said:

Sox currently have four guys they drafted in the MLB top 100, with Braden Montgomery as the fifth - he never played for the Red Sox so I'll count him. From 2013 - 2023 the Sox had 11 total players they drafted in the top 100, never having more than two per year.

Of course all these guys can wash out, but this is homegrown depth we haven't had since the late 90s.

Splitting hairs, but Montgomery was the centerpiece of the Crochet deal. It took giving up an asset to acquire him, and I think that's the point a few were trying to make. And really the only way to truly have sustained success is to DRAFT & Develop. You don't draft well, the well runs dry really quick. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

After how bad they have been even signing marginal free agents that'd be released by June, I think Tauchman is a good step if only to believe that when we get better they will be able to supplement correctly.

Possibly. I would hope a contending team wouldn't supplement their rosters with starters who cost near league minimum, but point taken either way.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Splitting hairs, but Montgomery was the centerpiece of the Crochet deal. It took giving up an asset to acquire him, and I think that's the point a few were trying to make. And really the only way to truly have sustained success is to DRAFT & Develop. You don't draft well, the well runs dry really quick. 

I'll actually give the Sox the credit for his development if he pans out. He will have spent the majority of his developmental time with the org.

That said, saying the Sox have 4 homegrown guys in the top 100 as evidence kind of ignores that two of those guys are left handed starters who have regressed, but also who the Sox have a proven track record in developing. Montgomery is really the only consensus top 100 guy that's a position player. 

If Schultz doesn't pan out, I think this team will have a hard time finding the pitching necessary to be anywhere near competitive. 

[Tony]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'll actually give the Sox the credit for his development if he pans out. He will have spent the majority of his developmental time with the org.

That said, saying the Sox have 4 homegrown guys in the top 100 as evidence kind of ignores that two of those guys are left handed starters who have regressed, but also who the Sox have a proven track record in developing. Montgomery is really the only consensus top 100 guy that's a position player. 

If Schultz doesn't pan out, I think this team will have a hard time finding the pitching necessary to be anywhere near competitive. 

They should get credit for his "development" as he will have totally come up through the White Sox system...but the point is (or at least my point, and what I thought you were trying to say) is they need to draft these guys. Again, acquiring Montgomery came at the cost of a developed, successful, young MLB player. If you aren't drafting well, not spending top dollar on free agents, and the international pipeline closes....not a lot of pathways open for long-term success.

And wouldn't you know it...the White Sox finished the last four seasons:

2021: 1st in Division

2022: 2nd in Division

2023: 4th in Division

2024: 5th in Division 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

They should get credit for his "development" as he will have totally come up through the White Sox system...but the point is (or at least my point, and what I thought you were trying to say) is they need to draft these guys. Again, acquiring Montgomery came at the cost of a developed, successful, young MLB player. If you aren't drafting well, not spending top dollar on free agents, and the international pipeline closes....not a lot of pathways open for long-term success.

And wouldn't you know it...the White Sox finished the last four seasons:

2021: 1st in Division

2022: 2nd in Division

2023: 4th in Division

2024: 5th in Division 

We have got to draft, sign, and develop our OWN TALENT.  Giving up Garrett Crochet to get Braden Montgomery isn't the same as drafting and developing Braden Montgomery.  If you want to build a sustainable model, you HAVE to be able to develop your own talent.  If we fall into the same model of developing someone else's draft picks only to trade them for the next talent, we will also repeat the cycle of busts and failure.

[tray]

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If Schultz doesn't pan out, I think this team will have a hard time finding the pitching necessary to be anywhere near competitive. 

If a team has an ace like the Tigers' Skubal, the Pirates Skenes, Red Sox Crochet and obviously the Dodgers Ohtani, one win in every pitching rotation is almost a lock. To your point, the Sox may not have anyone in sight that can become anything like those true ace pitchers, especially if Noah Schultz, Hagen Smith, etc. do not pan out.  And then there is the need for LH and RH set-up pitchers and a Closer. Now, the Sox starters struggle to stay in games until the middle innings and then it gets wayyy too stressful as Venable plugs in pitchers to try to close out games.  

[greg775]

Tauchman has had a pretty good year. I'd keep him. Sox need to spend some money on efficient pitchers. The offense looks OK to good if Monte is healthy and Robert keeps improving.

[almagest]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

We have got to draft, sign, and develop our OWN TALENT.  Giving up Garrett Crochet to get Braden Montgomery isn't the same as drafting and developing Braden Montgomery.  If you want to build a sustainable model, you HAVE to be able to develop your own talent.  If we fall into the same model of developing someone else's draft picks only to trade them for the next talent, we will also repeat the cycle of busts and failure.

If he never played for the Red Sox how are the White Sox not developing him? I get not wanting to trade every good player in a cycle of futility, but the White Sox still have to develop him.

Even if you take him out we still have more prospects in the top 100 right now than we have had at any point since 2013, and that’s after graduating Colson Montgomery.

[almagest]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'll actually give the Sox the credit for his development if he pans out. He will have spent the majority of his developmental time with the org.

That said, saying the Sox have 4 homegrown guys in the top 100 as evidence kind of ignores that two of those guys are left handed starters who have regressed, but also who the Sox have a proven track record in developing. Montgomery is really the only consensus top 100 guy that's a position player. 

If Schultz doesn't pan out, I think this team will have a hard time finding the pitching necessary to be anywhere near competitive. 

Yes, Schultz and Smith regressed this year. They’re still consensus top 100 for now. Well see what they can do next year - the Sox had plenty of guys fall off the top 100 list from 13-23 and basically none of them turned it around, so I’ll be interested to see if the Sox can have more than just Colson turn it around.

Also, I’d bet that not every one of the drafted guys on the MLB list from 13-23 were consensus. 

[nrockway]

7 hours ago, Tony said:

Splitting hairs, but Montgomery was the centerpiece of the Crochet deal. It took giving up an asset to acquire him, and I think that's the point a few were trying to make. And really the only way to truly have sustained success is to DRAFT & Develop. You don't draft well, the well runs dry really quick. 

He wasn't. Teel was. The Red Sox underrated Montgomery, he should've been the centerpeice and Teel should've been Bleis...if they were an effectively run organization. They are not. The Red Sox have many things going for them because they're the Red Sox...management is not one of them. Pitching development certainly isn't otherwise half of their roster wouldn't be former White Sox.

[nrockway]

4 hours ago, almagest said:

Yes, Schultz and Smith regressed this year. They’re still consensus top 100 for now. Well see what they can do next year - the Sox had plenty of guys fall off the top 100 list from 13-23 and basically none of them turned it around, so I’ll be interested to see if the Sox can have more than just Colson turn it around.

Also, I’d bet that not every one of the drafted guys on the MLB list from 13-23 were consensus. 

Both pitchers look fine. I still dislike the Hagen Smith pick when we could've had Wetherholt (or Braden), it has "previous regime pick" written all over it unlike this recent draft, but the guy is gonna be fine. People are talking about his 'degraded stuff' but he's K'ing 13+ guys per 9 since returning from injury. Going as deep into games as any AA guy would. Noah has always been an injury risk and continues to be...but evidence of his 'stuff degradation' is very overstated by people who aren't paying attention.

 

edit: by the way, there are often useful players who do not show up on the "top 100" for whatever reason. I wouldn't pay super close attention to it TBH. The Sox have a lot of potentially good players not sniffing the top 100. A few of them will probably pan out. Oppor might be the best lefty starter out of the bunch.

Edited September 9 by nrockway

[Boopa1219]

18 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The offense is undeniably better and has taken a positive step in the right direction. 

My only hesitance is that most of this is driven by guys we acquired from other orgs who had developed a lot within those orgs. Guys like Teel, Tauchman and Vargas are lifting heavy on the walk side, and guys like Quero and Miedroth are carrying some good weight on the strikeout side.

In order for me to trust the organizational change, I'd like to see us scout and develop this more than scout and trade for it. 

That said, they have 7 guys who are league average or better with the bat. Of those seven though, only TWO grade out + as defenders (Monty and Teel). Progress is progress, but a lot of room to go.

On the flip side though, almost all the growth we've seen offensively has regressed on the pitching side which is a huge bummer. 

22 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

I feel like Getz has been preaching this and is actually following through on implementation.

Getz and his front office are making it a point to acquire guys with front approaches and high OBP potential. That’s one of the key differences between Getz and KW/Hahn, this group seems to understand the importance of getting on base consistently.

They drafted a ton of guys with OBP skills and good approaches per all the publications, Caleb Bonemer, Billy Carlson, Jaden Fauske, Landon Hodge, Sam Antonnocci, Nick McClain, etc. They’re loading the org with those type of guys.
 

[almagest]

9 hours ago, nrockway said:

Both pitchers look fine. I still dislike the Hagen Smith pick when we could've had Wetherholt (or Braden), it has "previous regime pick" written all over it unlike this recent draft, but the guy is gonna be fine. People are talking about his 'degraded stuff' but he's K'ing 13+ guys per 9 since returning from injury. Going as deep into games as any AA guy would. Noah has always been an injury risk and continues to be...but evidence of his 'stuff degradation' is very overstated by people who aren't paying attention.

 

edit: by the way, there are often useful players who do not show up on the "top 100" for whatever reason. I wouldn't pay super close attention to it TBH. The Sox have a lot of potentially good players not sniffing the top 100. A few of them will probably pan out. Oppor might be the best lefty starter out of the bunch.

I think there are concerns with Smith and Schultz and I don't want to minimize those. Smith's control backed up because they changed his delivery due to injury issues. He needs to work through that, or find another, better delivery. Schultz is dealing with injuries, plus they apparently told him to stop using his cutter in AAA and he's been bad there. Hopefully some time in the fall helps them and they get back on track next season.

The idea of looking at MLB's top 100 isn't to be THE definitive source. It's meant to be a standardized point of reference for a decade+ of drafting and development, and to show that the Sox were able to get multiple recent draftees into the top 100 to replace Teel, Montgomery and Quero after they came up.

[chitownsportsfan]

Sox passed the Pirates in position player fWAR so they now rank 28th. Moved into a tie for 26th in wRC+ at 90. The Sox are a staggering 51 runs below average defensively. Walk rate is nice, but the holistic view is a bit grimmer.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Sox passed the Pirates in position player fWAR so they now rank 28th. Moved into a tie for 26th in wRC+ at 90. The Sox are a staggering 51 runs below average defensively. Walk rate is nice, but the holistic view is a bit grimmer.

Defense is a sieve.

Fundamentals...an unknown word to this organization.  

[77 Hitmen]

On 9/8/2025 at 4:11 PM, southsider2k5 said:

We have got to draft, sign, and develop our OWN TALENT.  Giving up Garrett Crochet to get Braden Montgomery isn't the same as drafting and developing Braden Montgomery.  If you want to build a sustainable model, you HAVE to be able to develop your own talent.  If we fall into the same model of developing someone else's draft picks only to trade them for the next talent, we will also repeat the cycle of busts and failure.

When was the last time the Sox drafted AFTER the first round who ended up being a solid MLB player let alone an all-star?  Skubal was a 9th round pick.   Cease was a 6th round pick for the Cubs, Cal Raleigh was 3rd round, etc.   We can barely get our 1st round picks right even when we have a high pick and our success after the first round has been dismal.  This team is making progress, but still has a long ways to go.

Marcus Semien (6th round) is the only one I can think of in the last 15 years....and of course we sent him to Oakland in a terrible trade before he became a big success.  

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

When was the last time the Sox drafted AFTER the first round who ended up being a solid MLB player let alone an all-star?  Skubal was a 9th round pick.   Cease was a 6th round pick for the Cubs, Cal Raleigh was 3rd round, etc.   We can barely get our 1st round picks right even when we have a high pick and our success after the first round has been dismal.  This team is making progress, but still has a long ways to go.

Marcus Semien (6th round) is the only one I can think of in the last 15 years....and of course we sent him to Oakland in a terrible trade before he became a big success.  

Chris Bassitt was a 16th rounder in that same draft. 

[nrockway]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

When was the last time the Sox drafted AFTER the first round who ended up being a solid MLB player let alone an all-star?  Skubal was a 9th round pick.   Cease was a 6th round pick for the Cubs, Cal Raleigh was 3rd round, etc.   We can barely get our 1st round picks right even when we have a high pick and our success after the first round has been dismal.  This team is making progress, but still has a long ways to go.

Marcus Semien (6th round) is the only one I can think of in the last 15 years....and of course we sent him to Oakland in a terrible trade before he became a big success.  

It's a good point. I was just glancing through baseball reference and there are some guys who you might consider to be solid (it's a stretch) but they're almost all entirely pitchers. Pretty much everyone in the staff this season is a late round pick. Maybe Romy Gonzalez is turning a corner. Brooks might be a solid player.

I think the difference is, and it's yet to be proven, there are some pretty nice position players in the system currently that were picked after the first round. Bonemer is the key one, he has star potential IMO. I really like Fauske, Hodge, Lodise and Ely Brown out of this year's draft. Ely Brown is my new favorite minor leaguer. Very early to say. Antonacci looks very solid. DePino and Wolkow have some potential. Those are just the position players. Obviously we'll see what happens.