The White Sox Looming Decision

[Texsox]

I really don't understand how anyone who has been watching the White Sox for a long time could think 22 games will decide this season.

 

This is not a good enough team to survive a s l o o o o o o o o w start. Any realistic scenario of them making the playoff started with a .500 or better April. Digging a hole and letting the rest of the division build a league will be too much in the end. Better teams can do this, but not the 2015 edition.

[Dick Allen]

I think Carlos Sanchez is probably a 1 to 1.5 WAR player. I don't think he's any great shakes. What I do know is that he will catch the ball and occasionally save a run with his glove. Sounds pretty damn good to me after this s*** show defense the past few years.

He's booted the ball around in Charlotte, but I would agree he is better defensively than Micah, at least now. But the guy has a .507 BABIP, and that is what is causing the cries for his call up.

 

Micah will adjust and get better. The problem with most rookies is they struggle at times. His ceiling is much higher than Sanchez's, which I am sure is why he is here and Carlos is in Charlotte.

 

If Sanchez was up and the same Sanchez we saw last September, and Micah was in Charlotte with a .507 BABIP, you and everyone else who wants Sanchez starting, would want Micah starting. There would be nothing about how much he has played above A ball. Sanchez's offensive numbers are out of whack and not sustainable. He is, by almost every evaluation out there, a future utility infielder.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Dick Allen

[chitownsportsfan]

. People are looking at him irrationally because he is hot in Charlotte, not because of anything in his tools set that will be some kind of plus tool in the majors.

 

I'm looking at him because the decision to go with Micah is a symbol for everything wrong with how the Sox evaluate position players. You could replace Sanchez with any number of other names and I'd feel the exact same way. You cannot win in 2015 with horse s*** defense all over the diamond the margins have never been higher for defensive value, or at least not since the 70's. Offense is down, runs are clustered more, and defense is more important.

 

The Sox are stuck in the wrong era and I will argue that this decision is the perfect test case for my thesis.

[flavum]

This is not a good enough team to survive a s l o o o o o o o o w start. Any realistic scenario of them making the playoff started with a .500 or better April. Digging a hole and letting the rest of the division build a league will be too much in the end. Better teams can do this, but not the 2015 edition.

 

Agreed. That's why this week is put up or shut up time.

[greg775]

Fans specialize in panic.

Not me. Last year I played the "it's early" game all season. It doesn't work when you have a team as poorly put together and poorly managed/coached as the White Sox. Something is wrong with the mentality of the franchise. It's an underachieving team and has been for a long time. There's obviously a comfort level there where the players all do their own thing. It's not a team at all. Anybody that isn't disgusted with this team after 0-3 in KC and worse yet 0-4 in Minnie makes me wonder how they can stomach what they are watching. Somebody deserves to be fired and fast.

[Lillian]

It appears as though 'Chitownsportsfan' isn't getting much credit for sound analysis here. I never understand some of the petty, pejorative remarks from bloggers on the Net,

which is a whole other subject. Allow me to just say that while I can see merit in both sides of this argument, I don't think that 'Chitownsportsfan' is getting his fair due here.

He seems to make some pretty valid points. I especially agree that a young player should get additional 'points' for performing well at a younger age. Baseball is a game of

high skills, which take time to develop. The younger a player is, when he can master those skills, the more it should suggest that the probability of his success is very high.

 

I think the difference is in the evaluation of raw tools, such as power or speed, vs baseball skills and acumen. A player may be the fastest, or most powerful man on earth,

but if he can't master the skill of playing the game, those tools will be of little value. On the other hand, a player who is skilled at the game, with much less raw strength and

speed, can be the better player.

 

The sooner that he exhibits those skills, the better it bodes for his future. There are a lot of guys who have been very good players, who make us scratch our heads with

incredulity over how they do it. Nevertheless, they seem to know how to master the skills of the game. A guy like Dustin Pedroia would never be singled out in a crowd, as a

professional athlete, but we've all seen what he can do. Of course, when you get a guy with the raw tools, who can master the skills, you have a super star. At this point, I

think that Sanchez is one of those highly skilled players, with limited raw tools. Johnson is the guy with the plus, plus speed and raw athletic ability, who may or may not ever

become a really good baseball player. If I want to win now, I go with the guy who is further along in the process of mastering the skills. If I'm playing for the future, I might

gamble on the guy with the better tools. That's just my perspective.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Lillian

[southsider2k5]

I'm looking at him because the decision to go with Micah is a symbol for everything wrong with how the Sox evaluate position players. You could replace Sanchez with any number of other names and I'd feel the exact same way. You cannot win in 2015 with horse s*** defense all over the diamond the margins have never been higher for defensive value, or at least not since the 70's. Offense is down, runs are clustered more, and defense is more important.

 

The Sox are stuck in the wrong era and I will argue that this decision is the perfect test case for my thesis.

 

You go with that. I will go with the fact that our lineups have all been significantly below last year in both the starting rotation, and the starting line up, except for one single player. That is 1 out of 14.

 

But I am sure the problem is Carlos Sanchez.

[southsider2k5]

Not me. Last year I played the "it's early" game all season. It doesn't work when you have a team as poorly put together and poorly managed/coached as the White Sox. Something is wrong with the mentality of the franchise. It's an underachieving team and has been for a long time. There's obviously a comfort level there where the players all do their own thing. It's not a team at all. Anybody that isn't disgusted with this team after 0-3 in KC and worse yet 0-4 in Minnie makes me wonder how they can stomach what they are watching. Somebody deserves to be fired and fast.

 

Example #1 of panic.

[chitownsportsfan]

You go with that. I will go with the fact that our lineups have all been significantly below last year in both the starting rotation, and the starting line up, except for one single player. That is 1 out of 14.

 

But I am sure the problem is Carlos Sanchez.

 

You know what annoys me? When I write 2k words and my argument gets reduced to an absurd straw man. What's the point of even posting? I've articulated an internally consistent argument and it gets reduced to "you think Carlos Sanchez will fix everything".

 

That's not discourse, that's middle school level "nanannaana booooo boo" crap and for the 2nd day in a row I'm going to take a break. Cya guys tmr. Go Sox.

[Kyyle23]

You know what annoys me? When I write 2k words and my argument gets reduced to an absurd straw man. What's the point of even posting? I've articulated an internally consistent argument and it gets reduced to "you think Carlos Sanchez will fix everything".

 

That's not discourse, that's middle school level "nanannaana booooo boo" crap and for the 2nd day in a row I'm going to take a break. Cya guys tmr. Go Sox.

 

Almost as annoying as your "take my ball and go home approach", or constantly questioning why raBBit is a mod.

 

How come its ok for you to sling insults when you are arguing with anyone about anything, but the minute someone does it to you, you say "Im going home now i will come back tomorrow"?

 

Hell, just 3 days ago you told buckweaver to toughen up over other posters criticism in his stance.

 

Everyone is arguing here, nobody is happy with the direction of the team. If you can dish it out, you sure as hell should be able to take it.

[flavum]

The Sox have 6 games at home, and 3 games in Milwaukee before the next off day and heading out to Oakland.

 

It's not panic time until it has to be. They go 7-2 the next 9, they're 15-16, and nobody will care they started bad.

 

On the other hand, if they go 3-6, they'll be 11-20, and basically toast. Before you freak out, let them have a last shot to get it together.

Edited May 5, 2015 by flavum

[southsider2k5]

You know what annoys me? When I write 2k words and my argument gets reduced to an absurd straw man. What's the point of even posting? I've articulated an internally consistent argument and it gets reduced to "you think Carlos Sanchez will fix everything".

 

That's not discourse, that's middle school level "nanannaana booooo boo" crap and for the 2nd day in a row I'm going to take a break. Cya guys tmr. Go Sox.

 

Funny, but you did the same thing to me, the difference being I didn't throw a temper tantrum and stomp off for the second day in a row. That is some middle school crap.

 

It is also worth mentioning that you were the one who just the post right before said that "Micah is a symbol for everything wrong...", yet we aren't supposed to believe you think the inverse? Come on man. Now that is "absurd".

 

Maybe take this guys advice and toughen up?

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3151826

 

[Balta1701]

It appears as though 'Chitownsportsfan' isn't getting much credit for sound analysis here. I never understand some of the petty, pejorative remarks from bloggers on the Net,

which is a whole other subject. Allow me to just say that while I can see merit in both sides of this argument, I don't think that 'Chitownsportsfan' is getting his fair due here.

He seems to make some pretty valid points. I especially agree that a young player should get additional 'points' for performing well at a younger age. Baseball is a game of

high skills, which take time to develop. The younger a player is, when he can master those skills, the more it should suggest that the probability of his success is very high.

 

I think the difference is in the evaluation of raw tools, such as power or speed, vs baseball skills and acumen. A guy be the fastest, or most powerful man on earth, but if he

can't master the skill of playing the game, those tools will be of little value. On the other hand, a player who is skilled at the game, with much less raw strength and speed,

can be the better player.

 

The sooner that he exhibits those skills, the better it bodes for his future. There are a lot of guys who have been very good players, who make us scratch our heads with

incredulity over how they do it. Nevertheless, they seem to know how to master the skills of the game. A guy like Dustin Pedroia would never be singled out in a crowd, as an

professional athlete, but we've all seen what he can do. Of course, when you get a guy with the raw tools, who can master the skills, you have a super star. At this point, I

think that Sanchez is one of those highly skilled players, with limited raw tools. Johnson is the guy with the plus, plus speed and raw athletic ability, who may or may not ever

become a really good baseball player. If I want to win now, I go with the guy who is further along in the process of mastering the skills. If I'm playing for the future, I might

gamble on the guy with the better tools. That's just my perspective.

Seriously, WTF is with this spacing?

[Dick Allen]

I still don't understand White Sox fans' fascination with trying to be the first to declare the White Sox season dead.

 

It's not even warm yet. There is so much excitement and so much overblown when someone gets 2 hits the first week of spring training, but now the team has a horrific week in more ways than one, and that's that. Season is over. Everyone must be fired.

 

They were 0-5 last week. If they were 2-3, they would be 10-12 and while not very good, not season is over material. So that is 2 freaking games, and there are 140 left to play.

[southsider2k5]

Dude, seriously, WTF is with this spacing?

 

*dudette

[flavum]

I still don't understand White Sox fans' fascination with trying to be the first to declare the White Sox season dead.

 

It's not even warm yet. There is so much excitement and so much overblown when someone gets 2 hits the first week of spring training, but now the team has a horrific week in more ways than one, and that's that. Season is over. Everyone must be fired.

 

They were 0-5 last week. If they were 2-3, they would be 10-12 and while not very good, not season is over material. So that is 2 freaking games, and there are 140 left to play.

 

80-60 starts tonight.

[Balta1701]

*dudette

D'Oh.

[southsider2k5]

D'Oh.

 

And I would guess it would be tablet related.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox: Rank this one under a surprisingly bad start. Nobody in the AL had a better winter than the White Sox, who acquired Jeff Samardzija, David Robertson and Adam LaRoche. Yet here they are, ranked last in the majors in runs scored, 25th in on-base percentage (.296) and 27th in slugging (.341). Then they got their Bermuda shorts blown off over the weekend in Minnesota (well, had they been wearing those ugly old 1976 Sox Bermuda shorts…).

 

For real? No. Expect better things from the White Sox. For one thing, they've endured a funky schedule—rained out in Kansas City on April 25, then having two games postponed in Baltimore because of the riots on April 27 and 28, causing them to play just one game in four days. Just out of spring training, timing is very fragile for everyone this early in the season, and the White Sox will get better.

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2453770...redo-we-believe

 

And it's been a sloppy start—witness the fourth inning of Sunday's win over Toronto, when the Indians surrendered six runs and Jason Kipnis said afterward, "We're not good enough to play that stupid." They are not. They also are too good to play that stupid very often.

For real? This poor start is not, no. Cleveland is too good not to be a factor in the AL Central race this summer.

Edited May 5, 2015 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Well...stupid is as stupid does, Bleacher Report.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I still don't understand White Sox fans' fascination with trying to be the first to declare the White Sox season dead.

 

It's not even warm yet. There is so much excitement and so much overblown when someone gets 2 hits the first week of spring training, but now the team has a horrific week in more ways than one, and that's that. Season is over. Everyone must be fired.

 

They were 0-5 last week. If they were 2-3, they would be 10-12 and while not very good, not season is over material. So that is 2 freaking games, and there are 140 left to play.

 

We're off to a s***ty start. Playing terrible in all facets. Not just one bad week.

[Eminor3rd]

If Rick Hahn found another GM as high on Carlos Sanchez as a few here, he would be insane not to trade him.

 

I've been #TeamSanchez since the start, not because I think he's amazing, but just because I think that a contending team should value floor over ceiling with its role players. Carlos Sanchez's bat isn't going to win us many games, but Micah Johnson's defense sure might lose a bunch. No question Johnson is the better prospect, but that doesn't mean he's the best fit for the 2015 team.

 

But again, this isn't about the role players, it's about the stars. I can't get worked up for Johnson right now because, while it's true that he's sucking, I can't make an argument that it's losing games. The studs have to produce before it gets to the point where Micah Johnson's failure becomes relevant.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[southsider2k5]

I've been #TeamSanchez since the start, not because I think he's amazing, but just because I think that a contending team should value floor over ceiling with its role players. Carlos Sanchez's bat isn't going to win us many games, but Micah Johnson's defense sure might lose a bunch. No question Johnson is the better prospect, but that doesn't mean he's the best fit for the 2015 team.

 

But again, this isn't about the role players, it's about the stars. I can't get worked up for Johnson right now because, while it's true that he's sucking, I can't make an argument that it's losing games. The studs have to produce before it gets to the point where Micah Johnson's failure becomes relevant.

 

Also so incredibly accurate.

[Boopa1219]

Dave Cameron said in his chat that the Astros have an interest in Shark.

 

I think unless the Sox are getting Correa, which is never going to happen, I think that Houston is a bad trade partner for the Sox.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Loom this Dave Cameron .