Race for the worst 2018 record (Top 5 pick) again

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Sox are 2.5 GB of the 1st pick

[Bob Sacamano]

6 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Sox are 2.5 GB of the 1st pick

Need another 8 game losing streak.

[steveno89]

8 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Need another 8 game losing streak.

After the Orioles sell off, it will be tough to imagine any other team losing more games down the stretch. 

We should finish with another bottom five pick though. 

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

After the Orioles sell off, it will be tough to imagine any other team losing more games down the stretch. 

We should finish with another bottom five pick though. 

Realistically, it won't be easy for the Sox to fall out of the top 5 or so.  The bottom 3 teams have such a "lead" on the top picks, that even if the Sox play .500 ball for the rest of the season and finish 30 under, you won't get that many teams finishing with less than say 65 or 66 wins.  These teams all have to play each other too, so there are wins out there.  Last year the Sox finished 4th with 67 wins, with the Reds right behind them 5th at 68 wins.  The 6th place team had 70 wins.

[steveno89]

18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Realistically, it won't be easy for the Sox to fall out of the top 5 or so.  The bottom 3 teams have such a "lead" on the top picks, that even if the Sox play .500 ball for the rest of the season and finish 30 under, you won't get that many teams finishing with less than say 65 or 66 wins.  These teams all have to play each other too, so there are wins out there.  Last year the Sox finished 4th with 67 wins, with the Reds right behind them 5th at 68 wins.  The 6th place team had 70 wins.

Very true^

I have wondered if getting rid of the division structure and having 6 teams from the AL and 6 from the NL make the playoffs each season would be better for the game in the long run. So many teams are already out of the race two months into the season that I'm not sure about long term fan interest. Tanking should not be encouraged, but the current MLB is set up that way. 

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Very true^

I have wondered if getting rid of the division structure and having 6 teams from the AL and 6 from the NL make the playoffs each season would be better for the game in the long run. So many teams are already out of the race two months into the season that I'm not sure about long term fan interest. Tanking should not be encouraged, but the current MLB is set up that way. 

Most of the teams that were out of the playoffs 2 months in were out of the playoffs 0 months in. 

[GreenSox]

37 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Very true^

I have wondered if getting rid of the division structure and having 6 teams from the AL and 6 from the NL make the playoffs each season would be better for the game in the long run. So many teams are already out of the race two months into the season that I'm not sure about long term fan interest. Tanking should not be encouraged, but the current MLB is set up that way. 

No divisions = Much better for the game.

[Sticky Stuff]

37 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Very true^

I have wondered if getting rid of the division structure and having 6 teams from the AL and 6 from the NL make the playoffs each season would be better for the game in the long run. So many teams are already out of the race two months into the season that I'm not sure about long term fan interest. Tanking should not be encouraged, but the current MLB is set up that way. 

I prefer something more radical like detracting 2 teams, and having a draft of those players for the next 8 teams with the lowest attendance.

Everything is financially driven and the players union and MLB wouldn’t allow it. Blah, blah, blah. Does MLB really need a team in Tampa and Miami? 

[Balta1701]

54 minutes ago, DH in the NL said:

I prefer something more radical like detracting 2 teams, and having a draft of those players for the next 8 teams with the lowest attendance.

Everything is financially driven and the players union and MLB wouldn’t allow it. Blah, blah, blah. Does MLB really need a team in Tampa and Miami? 

They may not have chosen the right markets, but I certainly don't think we're talking about talent (esp pitching talent) being too diluted these days any more are we? I think the case is going towards expansion rather than contraction, and I'm probably ok with that in the mid-term future.

[caulfield12]

https://www.royalsreview.com/2018/6/25/17471258/2019-draft-first-reds-royals-orioles

Analysis of the odds for each team to get #1 pick in draft, seems both predictive models have the Sox finishing with low 60’s win counts and the #3 spot.

[greg775]

14 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Need another 8 game losing streak.

Would I be considered a rat for wondering why people worry about the draft all year long instead of winning then the draft comes and you are rewarded with a Madrigal? Now no offense to him, but literally nobody is predicting stardom. I mean a year ago if somebody said you'd ultimately get Madrigal on draft day would you have been so interested in the draft leading up to it? Again nothing against the young man, I'm sure he'll be a fine player even though we already have a SS and 2Bman on our projected WS contending teams and he's not exactly a prototypical 3Bman or outfielder. Oh well, to each his own. I can root for Ws while you root for next year's No. 1-3 pick.

Edited June 26, 2018 by greg775

[caulfield12]

40 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Would I be considered a rat for wondering why people worry about the draft all year long instead of winning then the draft comes and you are rewarded with a Madrigal? Now no offense to him, but literally nobody is predicting stardom. I mean a year ago if somebody said you'd ultimately get Madrigal on draft day would you have been so interested in the draft leading up to it? Again nothing against the young man, I'm sure he'll be a fine player even though we already have a SS and 2Bman on our projected WS contending teams and he's not exactly a prototypical 3Bman or outfielder. Oh well, to each his own. I can root for Ws while you root for next year's No. 1-3 pick.

Wouldn’t it be easier to start following the team again in 2020 or 2021?

If you’re going to continue to obsess over the status of the rebuild or draft picks that you usually don’t care to follow on a daily basis in the minor leagues, why bother to get upset at all?  Isn’t it better to simply wait for a competitive team, Hahn/KW to get fired or the team to be sold?

I mean...if it bothers you this much, is it healthy for you or beneficial to be a Sox fan at this exact moment in time?

It’s not like there are any guarantees in life, other than Mike Trout.  For example, look at the stat lines of Harper and Machado the last 6 weeks, these are players that are both going to receive at least $250-300 million, if not more.  If the Sox ended up with one of them and they busted, then what?  

Edited June 26, 2018 by caulfield12

[Dam8610]

37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Would I be considered a rat for wondering why people worry about the draft all year long instead of winning then the draft comes and you are rewarded with a Madrigal? Now no offense to him, but literally nobody is predicting stardom. I mean a year ago if somebody said you'd ultimately get Madrigal on draft day would you have been so interested in the draft leading up to it? Again nothing against the young man, I'm sure he'll be a fine player even though we already have a SS and 2Bman on our projected WS contending teams and he's not exactly a prototypical 3Bman or outfielder. Oh well, to each his own. I can root for Ws while you root for next year's No. 1-3 pick.

No one predicts stardom for a draft pick outside of a rare few. Think Bryce Harper. Even Mike Trout was the 25th pick of his draft and had scouts questioning his hit tool. Most people think Madrigal's floor is a major league player, the debate is over his ceiling. I see a higher ceiling than most, and that ceiling would make him an MVP candidate. He may never reach that potential, but getting him is a lot better than having won 10 more games and getting Connor Scott or Logan Gilbert.

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Would I be considered a rat for wondering why people worry about the draft all year long instead of winning then the draft comes and you are rewarded with a Madrigal? Now no offense to him, but literally nobody is predicting stardom. I mean a year ago if somebody said you'd ultimately get Madrigal on draft day would you have been so interested in the draft leading up to it? Again nothing against the young man, I'm sure he'll be a fine player even though we already have a SS and 2Bman on our projected WS contending teams and he's not exactly a prototypical 3Bman or outfielder. Oh well, to each his own. I can root for Ws while you root for next year's No. 1-3 pick.

Even if this isn't really your point, I do agree to an extent. I think it's a little crazy to care about exact games back in the draft standings before like, mid-August 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

I mean...if it bothers you this much, is it healthy for you or beneficial to be a Sox fan at this exact moment in time?

It's just hard to get used to this crap baseball. It used to be we were in the race every year. This crap is difficult to digest. Also, this tanking business is new in sports and frankly it angers me beyond belief. Giving up baseball or adopting a new team would be wise as you suggest but I've always been a fan of this team.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Even if this isn't really your point, I do agree to an extent. I think it's a little crazy to care about exact games back in the draft standings before like, mid-August 

People enjoy the thread. Don't come into the thread and share thoughts. Problem solved. 

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

People enjoy the thread. Don't come into the thread and share thoughts. Problem solved. 

The thread itself is fine, that's not what I'm complaining about. It's the acting like winning one game is such a big detriment to our pick as if it were late September. It's all over, not just on Soxtalk either 

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

The thread itself is fine, that's not what I'm complaining about. It's the acting like winning one game is such a big detriment to our pick as if it were late September. It's all over, not just on Soxtalk either 

I gotcha. I misread what you wrote. 

[BlackSox13]

I see it this way. Sox win it's a good sign for the young players currently on the team. Sox lose its good for draft position next year. Shits out of my control so all I can do as a fan is sit back and try to find something positive to take from any given game.

 

[ron883]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Would I be considered a rat for wondering why people worry about the draft all year long instead of winning then the draft comes and you are rewarded with a Madrigal? Now no offense to him, but literally nobody is predicting stardom. I mean a year ago if somebody said you'd ultimately get Madrigal on draft day would you have been so interested in the draft leading up to it? Again nothing against the young man, I'm sure he'll be a fine player even though we already have a SS and 2Bman on our projected WS contending teams and he's not exactly a prototypical 3Bman or outfielder. Oh well, to each his own. I can root for Ws while you root for next year's No. 1-3 pick.

Do you get significantly more enjoyment if a team is a 70 win team vs a 60 win team?

[LittleHurt05]

10 hours ago, greg775 said:

It's just hard to get used to this crap baseball. It used to be we were in the race every year. This crap is difficult to digest. Also, this tanking business is new in sports and frankly it angers me beyond belief. Giving up baseball or adopting a new team would be wise as you suggest but I've always been a fan of this team.

Who, the White Sox?  I only remember being in the race once or twice in the past 10 seasons.  

[soxfan49]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

Would I be considered a rat for wondering why people worry about the draft all year long instead of winning then the draft comes and you are rewarded with a Madrigal? Now no offense to him, but literally nobody is predicting stardom. I mean a year ago if somebody said you'd ultimately get Madrigal on draft day would you have been so interested in the draft leading up to it? Again nothing against the young man, I'm sure he'll be a fine player even though we already have a SS and 2Bman on our projected WS contending teams and he's not exactly a prototypical 3Bman or outfielder. Oh well, to each his own. I can root for Ws while you root for next year's No. 1-3 pick.

If Madrigal is a .310/.410/.400 hitter with great defense, wouldn't that be great and perhaps = "stardom?"

Edited June 26, 2018 by soxfan49

[Bob Sacamano]

11 hours ago, greg775 said:

It's just hard to get used to this crap baseball. It used to be we were in the race every year. This crap is difficult to digest. Also, this tanking business is new in sports and frankly it angers me beyond belief. Giving up baseball or adopting a new team would be wise as you suggest but I've always been a fan of this team.

Yeah in the 2000s they were fun to watch. They usually faded at the end, but still made for a good overall season to watch. However, they haven't been good since 2012 and 2010. Only 2 seasons since then have been truly rebuilding years (17/18).

Edited June 26, 2018 by soxfan2014

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Yeah in the 2000s they were fun to watch. They usually faded at the end, but still made for a good overall season to watch. However, they haven't been good since 2012 and 2010. Only 2 seasons since then have been truly rebuilding years (17/18).

In the 2000s they were fun to watch...because they completed a full rebuild in the late part of the 90s and then had one of the top systems in baseball that churned out talent for several years. Some of that talent they traded away, some of it they held, some of it busted, but that 10 years of being competitive came about because they started from a strong system. Once that strong system faded away into a memory, by the latter part of the 2000s, suddenly they were scrambling to pull off .500 teams, and they were clearly outgunned by other teams in their own division.

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

In the 2000s they were fun to watch...because they completed a full rebuild in the late part of the 90s and then had one of the top systems in baseball that churned out talent for several years. Some of that talent they traded away, some of it they held, some of it busted, but that 10 years of being competitive came about because they started from a strong system. Once that strong system faded away into a memory, by the latter part of the 2000s, suddenly they were scrambling to pull off .500 teams, and they were clearly outgunned by other teams in their own division.

Here are their top 10 prospects 2001. Not exactly a who's who of All Star teams, including 5 in the top 61.

 

Year	Rank	MLB	Player Name	Pos	Ht	Wt	B-T	BornDate	Age	Place	HiLvl	Stat Years	MLB Years	Draft Information	Status	Current Org (Level)	MLB Debut	Age
2001	1	4	Jon Rauch	P	6-11	255	R-R	1978-09-27	22	Louisville,Kentucky	MLB	1997-2013	2002-2013	1999- 3- 99-CHA	Free Agent		2002-04-02	23.187
2001	2	23	Joe Borchard	RF-CF	6-5	220	B-R	1978-11-25	22	Panorama City,California	MLB	1998-2011	2002-2007	2000- 1- 12-CHA			2002-09-02	23.281
2001	3	36	Joe Crede	3B	6-3	195	R-R	1978-04-26	23	Jefferson City,Missouri	MLB	1996-2009	2000-2009	1996- 5- 137-CHA			2000-09-12	22.139
2001	4	44	Matt Ginter	P	6-1	220	R-R	1977-12-24	23	Winchester,Kentucky	MLB	1997-2009	2000-2008	1999- 1- 22-CHA			2000-09-01	22.251
2001	5	61	Danny Wright	P	6-5	228	R-R	1977-12-14	23	Longview,Texas	MLB	1999-2006	2001-2004	1999- 2- 64-CHA			2001-07-27	23.225
2001	6		Lorenzo Barcelo	P	6-4	220	R-R	1977-08-10	23	San Pedro de Mac,Dom Rep	MLB	1995-2016	2000-2002	1994- UDFA-SFN	International		2000-07-22	22.346
2001	7		Brian West	P	6-4	230	R-R	1980-08-04	20	West Monroe,Louisiana	AAA	1999-2006	-	1999- 1- 35-CHA
2001	8		Aaron Rowand	CF-LF	6-1	200	R-R	1977-08-29	23	Portland,Oregon	MLB	1997-2011	2001-2011	1998- 1- 35-CHA			2001-06-16	23.291
2001	9		Josh Fogg	P	6-2	205	R-R	1976-12-13	24	Lynn,Massachusetts	MLB	1996-2010	2001-2009	1998- 3- 89-CHA			2001-09-02	24.263
2001	10		Jason Stumm	P	6-2	215	R-R	1981-04-13	20	Centralia,Washington	AA	1999-2005	-	1999- 1- 15-CHA