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Offseason Targets

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35 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You want to add three starters?

I want depth in starters...the need for 7 or 8 starters is just a normal year.  Mostly I want a decent starter for every game and I know it's unrealistic to have 5 top tier starters.  The day of 200 inning starters is gone for the most part.  

Current Starters:  Giolito                   Next Year:  Giolito

                                Keuchel                                     Keuchel

                                Cease                                         New #3/4

                                Dunning                                    New #3/4

                                Lopez                                        Lopez/Cease/Dunning/#5 type                   

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10 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I want depth in starters...the need for 7 or 8 starters is just a normal year.  Mostly I want a decent starter for every game and I know it's unrealistic to have 5 top tier starters.  The day of 200 inning starters is gone for the most part.  

Current Starters:  Giolito                   Next Year:  Giolito

                                Keuchel                                     Keuchel

                                Cease                                         New #3/4

                                Dunning                                    New #3/4

                                Lopez                                        Lopez/Cease/Dunning/#5 type                   

I get what you’re saying, but adding three starters is basically punting on our young starters.

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1 hour ago, chw42 said:

Gausman probably takes that $19 million and runs with it. I'm not sure he'll get more than 30-40 million in a 3 year deal.

100000% my thought when I saw he received one.

Didi not getting one from Phillies is odd.

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16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I get what you’re saying, but adding three starters is basically punting on our young starters.

Kopech, Lopez, Rodon, Cease, Dunning, Lambert, and Crochet all have the potential long-term.  Need to start winning now.  Guys the caliber of Charlie Morton, Q, and others are available until some of our young guys can develop.  I have a philosophy of when you think you have plenty of pitching...get some more.

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29 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Kopech, Lopez, Rodon, Cease, Dunning, Lambert, and Crochet all have the potential long-term.  Need to start winning now.  Guys the caliber of Charlie Morton, Q, and others are available until some of our young guys can develop.  I have a philosophy of when you think you have plenty of pitching...get some more.

Rodon is closer to being non-tendered than be a long-term part of this team.

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I will never understand the need to crap on players who aren't instant stars. We know MLB is hard,  as is adjusting to it, even if we have great stuff.  You would think after seeing Lucas Giolito go from the worst pitch in baseball to one of the best, you would understand that guys like Cease and Dunning aren't finished products.  Even if they go to Charlotte,  they need to learn to get major league hitters out. AAA doesn't help you learn that. You can get away with pure stuff at that level.

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12 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

What does everyone think it would take to get Woodruff from Milwaukee? Would Vaughn and Cease be too much? 

Good start, and I think Milwaukee would love Cease. 

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27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will never understand the need to crap on players who aren't instant stars. We know MLB is hard,  as is adjusting to it, even if we have great stuff.  You would think after seeing Lucas Giolito go from the worst pitch in baseball to one of the best, you would understand that guys like Cease and Dunning aren't finished products.  Even if they go to Charlotte,  they need to learn to get major league hitters out. AAA doesn't help you learn that. You can get away with pure stuff at that level.

I generally agree, but Cease needs to figure out some mechanical stuff though to improve his fastball command and generate more spin.  He can definitely work on that in Charlotte.  Dunning needs and deserves a starting spot with the Sox and Kopech would as well if he hadn’t missed the last two seasons.

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5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Even if they go to Charlotte,  they need to learn to get major league hitters out. AAA doesn't help you learn that. You can get away with pure stuff at that level.

Both Cease and Kopech had inferior BB/9 down in Charlotte; Cease's BB/9 here in Chicago was a vomit-inducing 5.25 this season.

Cease's biggest problem isn't getting people out in MLB if he can't stop walking the yard. If he can't get his BB/9 down, he won't even be in MLB, TBH. Second to his walk issues is, as CWS said, to get more spin on his FB.

 

Now, since 2021 is supposed to be inside the competitive window, this team can't waste time for Cease to figure it out. 2021 won't be as low-pressure for youngsters as 2019 or 2018 were. Either he gets his ass squared away, or there's a seat on a bus in Charlotte for him.

And this isn't meant to "crap on" Cease or Kopech.  This is simply a recognition that this team is at a different part of the window than they were just a year ago. 2021 should be about results, not potential.

Edited by Two-Gun Pete

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So it’s offfical, six players receive QOs:

  • SP - Trevor Bauer
  • SP - Marcus Stroman
  • SP - Kevin Gausman
  • CA - J.T. Realmuto
  • OF - George Springer
  • 2B - DJ LeMahieu

Man, this was kind of surprising to me. I guess the Giants were going to spend anyway; gotta figure he takes that.

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28 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Man, this was kind of surprising to me. I guess the Giants were going to spend anyway; gotta figure he takes that.

He’d be crazy not to IMO.

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1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Both Cease and Kopech had inferior BB/9 down in Charlotte; Cease's BB/9 here in Chicago was a vomit-inducing 5.25 this season.

Cease's biggest problem isn't getting people out in MLB if he can't stop walking the yard. If he can't get his BB/9 down, he won't even be in MLB, TBH. Second to his walk issues is, as CWS said, to get more spin on his FB.

 

Now, since 2021is supposed to be inside the competitive window, this team can't waste time for Cease to figure it out. 2021 won't be as low-pressure for youngsters as 2019 or 2018 were. Either he gets his ass squared away, or there's a seat on a bus in Charlotte for him.

And this isn't meant to "crap on" Cease or Kopech.  This is simply a recognition that this team is at a different part of the window than they were just a year ago. 2021 should be about results, not potential.

I mean Tyler Glasgow pulled that improvement off midseason after being traded to Tampa Bay so it can be done. 

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I remember Hahn saying on the White Sox talk podcast that he texted agents the second free agency started last year to let them know that the White Sox were interested. I wonder who got a text today ?? 

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3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean Tyler Glasgow pulled that improvement off midseason after being traded to Tampa Bay so it can be done. 

I hear you, so I suppose it is "possible."

But how can any of us have any confidence after watching Fulmer fail, Rodon fail, Lopez get worse every year since 2018, and now Cease get worse?

Sure, Giolito appears to have "made it," but he seems to be more of the exception than the rule for this org. 

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10 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

What does everyone think it would take to get Woodruff from Milwaukee? Would Vaughn and Cease be too much? 

Milwaukee isn't moving Woodruff. They might be persuaded to move Burnes (who I like better than Woodruff) but I think it would take more than Vaughn and Cease (maybe throw in Stiever...local kid). I really like Milwaukee as a trade partner for WS. I especially like targeting Yelich AND Burnes in blockbuster. I would be willing to dangle Eloy (but not Vaughn) along with Cease, Stiever, Collins and Sheets/Rutherford. Brewers willingness depends on their financial situation but Burnes and Yelich would put us over the top.

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51 minutes ago, Flash said:

Milwaukee isn't moving Woodruff. They might be persuaded to move Burnes (who I like better than Woodruff) but I think it would take more than Vaughn and Cease (maybe throw in Stiever...local kid). I really like Milwaukee as a trade partner for WS. I especially like targeting Yelich AND Burnes in blockbuster. I would be willing to dangle Eloy (but not Vaughn) along with Cease, Stiever, Collins and Sheets/Rutherford. Brewers willingness depends on their financial situation but Burnes and Yelich would put us over the top.

Why?

Adding Yelich negates Eloy.... just gives us less control from the left side of the plate instead of a right handed hitter.

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1 hour ago, Flash said:

Milwaukee isn't moving Woodruff. They might be persuaded to move Burnes (who I like better than Woodruff) but I think it would take more than Vaughn and Cease (maybe throw in Stiever...local kid). I really like Milwaukee as a trade partner for WS. I especially like targeting Yelich AND Burnes in blockbuster. I would be willing to dangle Eloy (but not Vaughn) along with Cease, Stiever, Collins and Sheets/Rutherford. Brewers willingness depends on their financial situation but Burnes and Yelich would put us over the top.

 

24 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Why?

Adding Yelich negates Eloy.... just gives us less control from the left side of the plate instead of a right handed hitter.

Christian Yelich signed a massive 10 year extension last year. He's not going anywhere. 

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Yelich is a LH hitter who, when right, is in same class as Betts. He can also play either corner and some CF.  Eloy is one-dimensional and best suited as DH...a position we have depth. We would likely need to pursue another Of'er (love Tauchman w/NYY) to platoon w/Engle. I like Eloy but I view him as our most realistic trade chit (Robert, Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Grandal are going nowhere). I doubt we'll attract Bauer and I'm meh on the other FA pitchers, especially with draft compensation attached. 

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25 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

Christian Yelich signed a massive 10 year extension last year. He's not going anywhere. 

I don't disagree but he had a bad year and Brewers might need to offload his contract. It was massive but AAV is @24M which, relatively speaking, is a bargain. 

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We have to sign a quality starter and a RF if we want to get to the next level. Some of these names that are being thrown around as possible targets are downright gross. Like from the article below. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/southsideshowdown.com/2020/11/02/chicago-white-sox-bring-martin-perez-pitching-staff/amp/

Edited by maloney.adam

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7 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I hear you, so I suppose it is "possible."

But how can any of us have any confidence after watching Fulmer fail, Rodon fail, Lopez get worse every year since 2018, and now Cease get worse?

Sure, Giolito appears to have "made it," but he seems to be more of the exception than the rule for this org. 

New pitching coach is best hope. Is that pitching coach a LaRussa buddy or someone who has been working and learning the last 5 years? 

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The idea that a package that does not include Vaughn and is headlined by Dylan Cease gets you Yelich is laughable.

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The brewers, who have done an amazing job putting together a winning roster with paper clip transactions, are going to trade their marquee star at his lowest possible point, when he is paid market value AND off a down year.

And to get him, we are subtracting value from our team to “balance it out” more effectively. No thanks.

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