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the Corbin Burnes thread **on ice***

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1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

What about 2B?

 

1 minute ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Dickman

Yep, and then scrape the bottom of the barrel with guys like Brad Miller or Jonathan Villar and maybe you cobble together league average play there.

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16 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

 

Yep, and then scrape the bottom of the barrel with guys like Brad Miller or Jonathan Villar and maybe you cobble together league average play there.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Villar is undervalued in the current market. He's a decent player, IMO.

It would be a cheap, sneaky good move. 

He was worth 4.0 fWAR in 2019. It seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 29. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Maybe it's just me, but I think Villar is undervalued in the current market. He's a decent player, IMO.

He was worth 4.0 fWAR in 2019. It seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 29. 

He’s not well-liked by teammates apparently

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2 minutes ago, fathom said:

He’s not well-liked by teammates apparently

Neither is Eaton. I thought they were looking for guys with an edge? I know there's a difference between being an edgy player and just being a dick. Maybe Villar is the latter. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Which one of you changed Corbin Burnes to a  White Sox player on Wikipedia?

  • Haha 8

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You know if they want they could squeeze both Brantley and La Stella in there if they traded for Burnes.

If Brantley really ends up having to settle for 2/24. Between that and say 1/7 for La Stella, if they only have to pay Burnes like 500k....thats 19.5 added, but if ReyLo is getting moved plus Madrigal, Heuer from the roster you can shave about 3m off of it (plus ofcourse prospects but there are no monetary savings there), that's 16.5 which is pretty damn close enough. 

 

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Directly from Brewerfan.net

 

My opinion: Pure.Gar.bage. . . . Heavy fan dreaming, and why not? The White Sox are in "go for it" mode based on their offseason moves thus far. But "enthusiasm for a Burnes trade by Sox fans" & "likelihood of a Burnes trade to the South Side" would seem to be vastly different things.

I still wonder about the accuracy of the initial wording. Kinda reeks like the "Stearns is shopping Hader" stuff of last winter which all rooted in Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Brewers were "willing to listen" on Hader, which is how Stearns handles everyone every winter -- and doesn't mean at all that they're shopping him. Plus, the OP said "The Sox and brewers have made plenty of trades together recently," which to me sounds more grand than the reality -- Swarzak in '17, Soria & Xavier Cedeno in '18 -- which sounds like more like "convenient source of available decent relievers from a non-stellar team" than a major-trade trend . . . not to mention that this is not that same sort of circumstance at all from Milwaukee's point of view. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but still...

If Stearns were ever seriously considering this, you'd have to figure the return would have to grossly outweigh what Burnes means to the Brewers. He & Woodruff are co-aces with plenty of team control left. However, Stearns' main mantra is "controllable young talent," thus Burnes is the exact type of guy they're looking to build around, not trade away
.

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3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yet, we are going to pencil in Burnes for whole seasons?

He's got to start somewhere. He couldn't last year and neither could any other pitcher. If Cease or Kopech had the kind of season Burnes did we would all be ecstatic that they had finally turned the corner. Burnes did as well as he possibly could last year, He came in 6th in the Cy Young voting. Just because he isn't a veteran doesn't mean he can't continue to do that .

The trip has to start some time. Perhaps we can get in on the ride early and take it to the finish line while he still can be had for projected prospects rather than a boatload of cash that the Sox never pay pitchers. Of course it takes a leap of faith but with 1 great  MLB season (that he had nothing to do with the amount of innings he pitched) , that's still one more than Cease , Kopech and Crochet have had and Crochet never had one in college either.

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13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

However, Stearns' main mantra is "controllable young talent," thus Burnes is the exact type of guy they're looking to build around, not trade away.

But if he could get a 2 or 3 to 1 controllable young talent ratio in  trade that would make sense to me . Trade away 4 years of it for 12.

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3 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Avi is owed $12M guaranteed through 2021 plus the 2022 buyout.  Brewers are hard up for cash.  

Sox can send Madrigal, Engel, Heuer, Kelly and take back Burnes and Avi.

Avi plays LF and pushes Eloy to DH and is a temporary Vaughn blocker.

 

 

3 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

BTW I forgot to add that this is an answer to the $15M left over question.

I haven't agreed with much of your content but this is an interesting idea.

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3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fully agree.

I don't know about that. Would I rather give up Crochet than Cease or Kopech ? Yes I would just because Cease and Kopech are starting pitchers capable of making the rotation stronger in 21 and 22 more so than Crochet.

But if Burnes replaces Cease you now have 4 pitchers in the starting rotation with Cy Young votes from last year instead of 3 and 1 in the BP. Then you have a killer lineup, starting rotation, and bullpen. Sure we'd still have SP depth problems but you're replacing a maybe in Cease with guy with huge upside that has already started to blossom. If you don't trade Kopech with Cease at some point maybe he can step up to start with the Sox if Burnes wears out a little bit.

I'd say Cease could be in the trade but it also depends on if we can limit giving up more pitching than just him in the trade.

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But if he could get a 2 or 3 to 1 controllable young talent ratio in  trade that would make sense to me . Trade away 4 years of it for 12.

But with Woodruff and Burnes both under control for four more years, the Braun contract off the books and the NL Central in disarray, this simply is not the logical type of move the Brewers make unless they’re really high on Cease and/or Kopech.

Sure, it might be two for one (in terms of pitchers), but what are odds Cease or Kopech finish Top 6 in the NL MVP race THIS year?

They (Sox) can’t afford to give up two starters...the Brewers can’t take the risk of just one for one and they already have Urias who could be quite similar to Madrigal at second.

At the very least, you’re talking Kopech OR Cease and Crochet and one additional piece, probably Vaughn.

Then it becomes too big of a risk for the White Sox if anyone gets hurt in the Sox rotation...that’s assuming you had convinced them somehow to take Lopez as the third piece, for example.   Just seems pretty implausible that Hahn or TLR trades 3 of Kopech, Cease, Crochet and Vaughn.

Edited by caulfield12

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After sleeping on this a bit, I just don't see the Brewers doing a deal like this, short of a massive overpay. I mean, even if you include Kopech, and Jimmy says the Sox won't.... why does Milwaukee do it? Kopech only has one more year of control left than Burnes has, and is massively unproven compared to Burnes. If you're the Brewers, I wouldn't even consider it unless it was something like Kopech, Madrigral and Kelley for Burnes. And at that point, I probably say no if I'm the Sox.

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54 minutes ago, Sarava said:

After sleeping on this a bit, I just don't see the Brewers doing a deal like this, short of a massive overpay. I mean, even if you include Kopech, and Jimmy says the Sox won't.... why does Milwaukee do it? Kopech only has one more year of control left than Burnes has, and is massively unproven compared to Burnes. If you're the Brewers, I wouldn't even consider it unless it was something like Kopech, Madrigral and Kelley for Burnes. And at that point, I probably say no if I'm the Sox.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/35383/luis-urias
They already have their own version of Madrigal...

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I think the sox don't really need to make a big trade at the moment.

They can sign an older number 5 starter in February on the cheap who is still looking for a contract, it doesn't make sense to ship out top prospects now.

That is really a big advantage of the lynn deal, the sox are now in a position to wait.

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Damn, this hasn't become wetbutt23 v2.0 yet.

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19 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I think the sox don't really need to make a big trade at the moment.

They can sign an older number 5 starter in February on the cheap who is still looking for a contract, it doesn't make sense to ship out top prospects now.

That is really a big advantage of the lynn deal, the sox are now in a position to wait.

Surely, the Brewers are thinking the same thing with that division so vulnerable.

They need to answer which versions of Hader and Yelich they’re getting in 2021 before they make any wholesale changes.

With Lindbloom, Houser and Lauer, they have a “serviceable” back end of the rotation.   Houser, in particular, has a lot of upside.

Most importantly, they have the #3 reliever in MLB in Devin Williams.

For Milwaukee, trading Hader right now for young hitting or pitching is the most logical move possible.

 

Studying the roster, I think they have to run out Cain, Hiura and Yelich one more time.   They definitely could use an upgrade at 1B/DH, Vogelbach is what he is.   Same with Arcia, Avi Garcia and Narvaez.   Urias needs to be a lot better.  They can’t afford to have Madrigal and Urias in the same line-up.

When you look at everything comprehensively, they need Vaughn’s bat more than anything.   Or Nelson Cruz, Brantley, whoever they can afford to bring on board.

Edited by caulfield12

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Wow I really can’t believe the  packages some on here are willing to give up for Burnes. I know the guy was really good in 2020 and the stat cast stuff suggests it’s legit, but he has made just 13 mlb starts. I just hate giving up 3-4 mlb players with years of control for 1 starter, especially given the frequency of injuries to SPs

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7 hours ago, CeaseAndExist said:

What about TA + prospects for Burnes?

Brewers need a SS. TA is great but Sox can fill his spot by bringing Semien back, or Madrigal to SS and sign Cesar Hernandez

 

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8 minutes ago, daa84 said:

Wow I really can’t believe the  packages some on here are willing to give up for Burnes. I know the guy was really good in 2020 and the stat cast stuff suggests it’s legit, but he has made just 13 mlb starts. I just hate giving up 3-4 mlb players with years of control for 1 starter, especially given the frequency of injuries to SPs

You never get rich by constantly buying high...or chasing returns.   The White Sox have always operated in the margins, going after value stocks when they’re undervalued.

After selling our three studs at peak value in 2016-17, we’re not swimming in such an embarrassment of riches that we can afford the consequences of a couple of trades like this going in the wrong direction.

It’s going to take Cease, Kopech, Crochet and Vaughn.   At least two of those names, with Lopez thrown in perhaps as well.  And Burnes has nothing of the overall track record, consistency or 25+ start history of a Sale or Quintana.

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4 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

 

hqdefault.jpg

Sure, after 2019.

But Semien was looking at a $80-100 million contract had he become a free agent then...now he’s going to get something closer to a Segura or Gregorious for one year and hope for a rebound.

If Anderson wasn’t the most important leader on the team, sure, you at least have to consider every possible option in order to improve.

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7 hours ago, CeaseAndExist said:

I do Kopech + Cease + Madrigal for Burnes easy. Throw in either Rutherford or Kelley too if need be

You forgot Moncada and Roberts.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Surely, the Brewers are thinking the same thing with that division so vulnerable.

They need to answer which versions of Hader and Yelich they’re getting in 2021 before they make any wholesale changes.

With Lindbloom, Houser and Lauer, they have a “serviceable” back end of the rotation.   Houser, in particular, has a lot of upside.

Most importantly, they have the #3 reliever in MLB in Devin Williams.

For Milwaukee, trading Hader right now for young hitting or pitching is the most logical move possible.

 

Studying the roster, I think they have to run out Cain, Hiura and Yelich one more time.   They definitely could use an upgrade at 1B/DH, Vogelbach is what he is.   Same with Arcia, Avi Garcia and Narvaez.   Urias needs to be a lot better.  They can’t afford to have Madrigal and Urias in the same line-up.

When you look at everything comprehensively, they need Vaughn’s bat more than anything.   Or Nelson Cruz, Brantley, whoever they can afford to bring on board.

I can see the brewers trying to compete and then do a mini sell off at the deadline like the yankees did when they traded miller and chapman for torres, frazier and some others.

I don't see them going in full rebuild, especially with yelichs contract going like 7 more years but I can see them trading hader and someone else for a couple close to ready mlb prospects

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Dead silence from the foodies...Not Cishek is going to have a hard rationalizing that tweet if nothing materializes here.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Dead silence from the foodies...Not Cishek is going to have a hard rationalizing that tweet if nothing materializes here.

What did he say?  I tried following last night but may have missed it.

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