Leaderboard

Fixed that for you

? I wish you maturity in the coming years of your baseball fan career.

Literally just correcting this would change his slashline to .247/.387/.431 with a 18.7% BB rate and a 25.0% K rate. In case anyone was wondering how badly the umps have screwed Moncada over this season, there's your answer.

Dear White Sox, This has been a magical week. You're almost there! Please do not fuck this up. Kindest Regards, SAALOTL

In the wake of the Kopech injury, as the season has turned more and more meaningless, I've been thinking a lot about Moncada and Anderson's numbers and whether they are "good" or not. What's strange about this is that 20 years ago, I would have thought for two young players 18ish homers and 40+ xbh, as fairly good, batting average aside. Add in Moncada's walk rate and Anderson's stolen bases, and some of their respective defensive plays and upside, and I think years ago many would have thought "these players are just fine, they just need time" However, that's NOT what's going on. The board is at least somewhat divided on whether both are going to be as good as they can be to significantly contribute to this team. Then I thought about Joe Crede. Joe Crede was one of the most frustrating players to root for from 2003-2004. After his rookie season of 2002 (he had a handful of PAs in 2000-2001), he had a very difficult time keeping his batting average, on base percentage, and OPS high enough to be acceptable for the next two seasons. He also had a difficult time keeping his WAR up, even with his defensive prowess. In his first 279 MLB PAs, he did very well - an over .800 OPS, great defense, tons of promise, WAR of 0.8 (with only 40% of a season). However, over the next 1123 MLB PAs, from 2003-2004, he did NOT do as well: a .251/.304/.424/.728, with a combined WAR of 3.2, averaging 1.6 per season. It obviously wasn't horrible or anything, but it wasn't something that I think White Sox fans felt they could necessarily live with as a long term option. My recollection was that fans were pretty unsure about him, in general. His two saving graces were his ability to hit homers and his defense. In 2003-2004 Joe Crede was 25 and 26 years old, and at the end of that time he had 1402 MLB PAs to his credit. As of the end of 2004, his stats were: .256/.304/.434/.738 career. Not bad, but just a seemingly just little above replacement. His career WAR was roughly 3.8 at this point. HOWEVER.... The next three complete seasons (and the injury shortened 2007) that Crede played were his best, and indubitably he was utterly essential to our championship run. I don't think anyone would argue that if we didn't have Joe Crede we would have won the 2005 championship. His combined 2005-2008 stats were: .258/.308/.453/.761 and his WAR over that span was 7.6 - twice the value of the previous four years over about the same number of PAs. All of this is to say that Moncada's WAR is currently 2.4 for his career at just 23 with about 800 PAs, and Anderson's is 4.5 at 25 through a little over 1400 PAs (ironically exactly the point Crede broke out himself) I think because Moncada was acquired in the Sale trade and we all expect instant gratification for players there is very little patience for MLB development. However, I think Crede (even as a lower rated prospect initially) is a great example of a player who gave us well over 1000 PAs at the MLB level before he was able to truly break out. Thoughts?

It's not really irrelevant when you're discussing his trade last year.

Reminds me of a dysfunctional college football program

If the strategy is to get the ump to call balls strikes, well then, more guys should use that strategy more often. It is a baller move. Doesn't seem like it should be a move that works that often though. So it is a bad approach to not swing at balls out of the strike zone? I kind of thought that was the point. It shouldn't make him vulnerable. A great discerning eye is an advantage. A tremendous asset. It shouldn't be a liability. I just can't get behind coaching a guy into swinging at pitches that are out of the zone. The way you hit the ball hard, and do damage, is to swing at hittable pitches that are in the hitting zone. This was his AB in the 8th last night That pitch 5 or so inches off the plate was strike 3. There is no way he should be swinging at that. That is just a terrible call, plain and simple. Saying he should be fighting that off is ridiculous. That pitch is ball 4 plain and simple.

I disagree that this is "the umps taking the bat out of his hands" or the stated point that this is something that will turn around on its own. The reason Moncada looks this bad in this number is that pitchers know THIS is an easy way to attack Moncada. They know he's patient enough that if they throw good pitches early in the count, he may not attack them unless they make a mistake. If the pitcher gets ahead in the count, they also know that Moncada will not defend himself if the pitch is close, he will continue looking for a pitch he can drive. Moncada will not foul pitches off with 2 strikes to stay ahead if the pitch is close but unhittable, he will take that pitch. Other players will fight those pitches off or put them in play, Moncada won't. So, if a pitcher gets ahead of Moncada, what do they do? They throw the ball just out of the strike zone a couple times and since Moncada won't defend himself, it's up to the quality of framing and how well the umpire sees it whether or not he strikes out. If they've got an 0-2 or 1-2 count, they can do that a few times and see if Moncada grabs some bench without him ever threatening to do damage. If we replayed this season a hundred times, Moncada would still lead the league in this category. It's not because he's getting bad luck from the umps or that the umps just don't respect him (I guess it's possible there's a little bit of it in there it can't be ruled out completely), this is all about Moncada's approach. This is a major vulnerability for him. Unless there are robot umps adopted, any time he gets behind in the count, he's vulnerable to striking out looking because he won't defend on close pitches. You get ahead of him, you have a catcher that frames the ball acceptably, and you throw a pitch that is close, he'll grab some bench. Until Moncada's approach when behind in the count improves, he will lead the league in this every year.

Wait, how are you doing this? Are you turning all strikeouts into walks?

But then Burton could mess up the catch, tip it up, off his helmet, and the DB who was out of position intercepts it and takes it 108 yards after superkicking Mitch and breaking Allen Robinson's ankles. They both could've been out for the year.

He can't be slotted anywhere. There is no way you can go into a season with any faith he will even get through spring training and if he does he is day-to day for the rest of his career.

According to Statcast, of the five, Moncada has the second lowest % of looking-K's that are OOZ. SO K-swing K-look K-look-OOZ % K OOZ Moncada 196 124 72 49 68.06 Taylor 152 100 52 35 67.31 Judge 132 89 43 35 81.40 Chapman 119 67 52 36 69.23 Trout 99 55 44 36 81.82

Here's your stopgap, in the most literal sense of the term...everyone needs to stop getting fucking injured. How bout that?

I completely disagree. I am all for getting calls right and making the game more fair. I think if a pitcher has to throw a strike to get a strike out it increases offense. But players will adjust, just as they have to with different umps different zones. They will have to figure it out and I think hitting increases. Batters wont get walks based on reputation and pitchers wont get strike outs based on reputation, which both walk and strike outs are considered a problem.

I'm not panicking I just have a different approach than you do for the rebuild. Being proactive when you have the payroll space to do so easily isn't unreasonable. Signing guys to 3 or 4 years isn't unreasonable given that's how long it might take your way to compete again while still being able to flip them.They won't block anyone. It's very simple to get rid of guys by trades, non-tendering or releasing them. Delmonico,Palka, Engel, Cordell,Avi and Leury Garcia are all 26 and 27, Sanchez is a utility guy.LaMarre is 29. Kevin Smith is 30. Jose Rondon might be the only position player on the roster to need further evaluating. The best we can hope for from this motley crew is a utility player, a DH, a 4th OF and a long shot relief pitcher in Davidson ,Chances are in 2 years none of these guys is around so a few FA's for 1-4 years aren't going to block anyone coming up. I have no idea why you keeping bringing up guys being blocked, It just doesn't happen unless you have a premier guy at a certain position. Castillo is probably gone by trade deadline 2019 but the Sox may have to play him to get anything for him meaning the one guy who earned more playing, time Omar Narvaez won't be getting the AB's he needs. Or maybe he gets traded at his all time low value in the off season since Zavala is close. Basically most of the position players are already filler with no further need of evaluation. It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff and move ahead with more reasonable chances for guys who can be flipped. Rodon and Abreu are now more likely to be traded so might as well get some more like them because no on else we have will bring back anything.

What? Yes, the batter should expand his zone to protect the plate and not strike out. Are you saying the umps should expand the zone too? First of all, no way. Second, you could do that with robo umps too, but with perfect consistency.

Anyone for the automated strike zone?

Poll: Kavanaugh isn't a key issue for undecided voters in red states For when Reddy makes the claim that someone like Joe Manchin or Heidi Heitkamp has to vote for Kavanaugh.

Your assessment of Crede is right on, and it can apply to others. However, Crede had two advantages: He still was an excellent defensive player and he played on a team that a lineup of power hitters. While Crede had embarrassing at bats, the Sox had the likes of Lee, Ordonez, Thomas and Valentin. Moncada has a lot of light on him because the Sox want the trade to work out, and the team is also losing. In other situations, Moncada might have been sent back down to sort things out. Instead he struggles and looks bad and the team looks bad. There are drawbacks to a complete tear down. The Moncada situation is one of them.

[shrugs] I just look at Moncada, and wonder why the fuck he was brought up when he had OBESE K issues, RHH issues, and was far from a finished product. I also wonder if the [snicker] coaches/manager in Chicago know WTF they're doing. Since it appears as though little-to-no progress has been made on his part, I wonder if Moncada will ever improve, or if this stupid org just pissed the potential of the former #1 prospect away. I also watch Sale pitch, and groan at having squandered him in trade for a pile of Ks, a TJS, and a Basabe twin. Here's hoping Moncada can rise above all this, despite the abject lack of on-field and front office leadership in this organization, and that Kopech's measly 14.1 IP was worth the 2 squandered years of control.

The White Sox drafted Nick Madrigal a few months ago as their #1 draft choice. The White Sox have talked openly about him being the 2020 Opening day second baseman. As bad as I think this White Sox management team is, I don't think they would have drafted him if they had a high opinion of MonKKKKKKKKKada. I don't think anybody thinks the White Sox are going to have a winning season in 2019. I'm just wondering if the White Sox will trade MonKKKKKKKKada this off season and put Madrigal at second base next year. If the White Sox could get something decent for MonKKKKKKKKada this off season I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded.

If Eloy Jimenez doesn't come up and hit 800-850 the first three months next year, there will be a ton of fans jumping ship. This rebuild was largely predicated on Kopech, Moncada and Robert being superstars, and none of them are even close right now...so everything is basically riding on Eloy's knees and Cease's elbow at this point. It's pretty easy to imagine reactions on here to the typical Class B/C free agents we're going to roll out there. Watching these games with Detroit, Minnesota and KC are becoming almost unbearable with the "race of the bottom" mentality that we're currently witnessing. Otoh, having a #3 pick (instead of 4-6) will give us ANOTHER reason to get excited about next year. Jimenez is pretty much it, for now.

No. The higher draft pick is worth more to us than the Cubs status. The only way I want to see the Sox streak is it it means hot streaks from Yoan, Anderson and guys in this ilk.

No. The Cubs status is a waste of time for White Sox fans.

Even if he's back to feeling normal, we shouldn't forget how long it took him at AAA to find a groove and his control this year. In June he had what, a 3 inning 6 walk performance or something like that? He may be feeling normal but rather than using this offseason to work on improving things, he will instead be spending it doing very little to improve other than watching video and reading. He should be physically back to start 2020, but all of the skill, the practice he did this year, he's going to need far more time to recover all that.

Joe Maddon does no wrong. When Lester was struggling and Rizzo was struggling, they had a talk with Maddon, and struggled no more. It does make you wonder why they didn't speak to him sooner.

I don't agree. Yes, I am very happy when my teams win, but life doesn't change all that much if the Sox win the WS or are competing for the worst record in baseball. Don't get me wrong, I still care about the results. I still go to more games than most people, but it's not as big of a deal as it once was. The guy I had season tickets with had an accident, hit his head and died. The company I worked for went bankrupt. I was lucky and got a job without missing a paycheck. I know others that almost 7 years later make a fraction of what they made and are really struggling. Those things are far worse than White Sox or Bulls or Bears or Hawkeyes losses. I'd like to think I have gained some perspective. Not a lot in reality, but some.

He should be pretty close. Most pitchers say it's about 12-18 months for the elbow to feel "normal." Since he'll miss all of next year that time frame is before the 2020 season. I would be more worried if he had surgery early this year and returned in the middle of next year. I would not expect him to quite be there for that year.

Agreed. Major changes should have come the White Sox a long time ago. After Guillen left, a major search should have been conducted for a manager. Instead the job was handed to a guy with no experience and a guy who didn't seem to want the job very much. By 2013 the team had fallen apart and it had its worst season in over 40 years. I wonder how long the current front office will be given in regards to this rebuild.

Jim Crane became the new owner of the Astros in 2011. And before he embarked at the time he took over on what he deemed a much-needed “rebuild”, he first got rid of the retreads (Tal Smith and Ed Wade) who were responsible for the need for the rebuild in the first place. He wasn’t dumb enough to let them continue their record of futility on his watch, unlike another owner we know. No, as any competent owner would do, he threw those two to the curb and then got onto the business of performing proper due diligence to identify appropriate replacements for those guys who had proved they couldn’t get the job done, which resulted in the hiring of Jeff Luhnow. And now just seven years later, Crane & Luhnow are presiding over a very impressive and “sustainable winning” ballclub, and one that is on pace to be a perennial powerhouse for several years to come. When have you ever heard that kind of description made of the organization of which we are fans, the one run, no less, by baseball’s current longest tenured owner from over the past FOUR decades?

The fundamental difference between the rebuilds that the Cubs and Astros underwent vs. the one the White Sox are currently slogging through is that the other two teams replaced incompetent owners with competent ones, and those new owners immediately replaced the incompetent front offices they inherited with new, competent ones, and are each now presiding over powerhouse organizations as a result. Meanwhile, the status quo remains in place over on the South Side.

So Nagy's team blew a 21-3 lead his last game as OC at KC, and a 20-0 lead last night. Considering the offense only put 13 points on the board, maybe he should have played people in some of the 5 preseason games. . They also looked gassed in the 4th quarter, but that could have just been things going south. It's only one game, and most figured they would lose anyways, but this was a tough one. Hopefully it won't have a lingering effect, and hopefully the offense looks more like it did the first quarter than the rest of the game.

Nagy should just retire at halftime. It is really possible that this is the height of his career in Chicago.

I'm beginning to wonder if this young man is capable of learning. It has been brought to his attention, by coaches and teammates that he needs to be more aggressive, in two strike counts. Yet, he continues to take called third strikes. I'm sorry, but being a good baseball player requires a certain degree of baseball smarts, or acumen. He better wake up and begin to figure that out, or this League is going to eat him up. If we, as fans, can see this, you have to wonder why he can't. He also continues to try to pull everything. Anderson has discovered that there are a lot of base hits, to be derived from taking outside pitches to the opposite field. Moncada can't seem to grasp that. I've said it before, but despite taking a lot of pitches, far too many of his at bats are not good at bats. Is anyone else getting tired of his stubborn insistence on doing the same things, over and over again, in spite of less than acceptable results? Do you think that the Boston front office might have thought that he was a "head case"? What a waste of talent? I don't know what Madrigal will amount to, but his baseball acumen will be a refreshing change, after watching Moncada. I. apologize for the rant, but it's getting hard to take, especially after the let down over Kopech.

Go look at the Yankees and the Athletics, the 2 teams that are going to take the AL Wild Card this year, and ask yourself if your roster comes anywhere close to measuring up to them. Severino, Judge, Torres, Stanton, Chapman, and $50 million+ to play with this offseason, and they're a wild card team. Really, you think you're going to sneak into a wild card spot in this league with Moustakas and Cargo? Not with these teams. If you're going to sign someone, fine. Clearly we have to sign 2 starting pitchers minimum, we simply don't have the horses right now to even field a roster. But don't even think about the Wild Card while doing it, think about the holes you have and flipping guys only. If some magic happens and Moncada outplays Trout next year, then great, but you can't make business decisions where a key part of it is "and then a miracle occurs".

Spider-man anyone? I just got started this afternoon (got to play for less than an hour). I'm excited to get into this.