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Madrigal could hit.400 and people would complain

Welp. Time to utilize the ignore feature for the first time.

This argument is pretty ridiculous. He are all the top 3 round picks under Hostetler (Fulmer was not his pick FYI): 2016-1: Zack Collins (in between) 2016-1: Zack Burdi (floor) 2016-2: Alex Hansen (ceiling) 2016-3: Alex Call (floor) 2017-1: Jake Burger (floor) 2017-2: Gavin Sheets (floor) 2017-3: Luis Gonzalez (floor) 2018-1: Nick Madrigal (floor) 2018-2: Steele Walker (floor) 2018-3: Konner Pilkington (floor) Out of 10 picks under Hostetler, there have been 8 clear cut “floor” picks and only one true “ceiling” pick. I’ll say Collins falls in between while he was high risk as a catching prospect, there was belief at the time his fallback would be as a passable 1B. Either way, it’s pretty clear we’ve gone with a safe draft strategy under Hostetler.

He's not good defensively. Hes a future fat guy. Hes a very good hitter, but not exceptional. I'd love to have him, but he's not a franchise player imo. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Sox in 3 years.

And yet Jimenez, who has thus far been a total waste of money that could have been spent on quality free agents, has escaped criticism.

Somebody tell me when they are done arguing ceiling and floor and we can go back to talking about Yolbert...

I said hes very good. Wtf do you want? Hes not great. Hes not elite. Elite players don't come down to signing for the Sox or Padres.

You’re wrong dude. May as well admit you don’t know what you’re talking about and move along.

He’s a 3B. He played SS for a small amount of time basically to prove he could for FA. He’s a very ELITE defensive 3B, which is where he would have played for the Sox. Pay more attention.

You realize when a thread topic breaks down like this, people quit coming to it because they don't wanna read post after post of people calling each "discussing" (it showed all the signs of arguing, like calling each other illogical and questioning others sanity, but you said its not arguing) Thus the original topic gets drowned and people quit caring to visit the topic. The thread title is "Sox interested in Yolbert Sanchez." Something nice about message boards is you can start a new thread to discuss a new topic. So if you wanted to evolve your discussion to something else, you can start a new topic while people who still wanted to talk about the other topic can still do that.

Sorry... I just found your "discussion" boring. "i'm right" "how could you say that, I'm right" "No this is what I mean which make me right" "That's so illogical, this is how you should see it, I'm right" in a thread topic that is about a player we might be trying to get, not what you guys are "discussing." I wanted to discuss with another poster why he isn't a fan of signing him, and I disagreed with him, but my post got lost in your "discussion"

He was picked 4th for a reason. Hit machine, great defense, can communicate with the press, I'll take it.

After watching that 3rd inning of their current game, I wish I could change my vote to 90+. Best team of all time. No doubt.

They're going to end up in or around first at the end of April, before crashing back to earth. The Indians are gonna get off to a real slow start methinks.

@ KC 2-1 @ Cle 1-1 vs. Sea 1-2 vs. Rays 2-1 @ NY 1-2 vs. KC 2-1 @ DET 2-2 @ BAL 2-1 vs. DET 2-1 vs. BAL 2-1 17-13. Honestly felt like I wasn't being overly optimistic either. That is a super favorable schedule, and the Sox could easily get off to a hot start.

Weird.

Eh.. I don't know about excited. But I'll say Eloy alone is making me feel a bit tingly inside at least. I'm more excited about the minor league season despite some of the injuries.

He is in the top 4 for this years intl class... what more do you want?

Not seeing why there's so much outrage over being interested in a fast defensive wizard at SS who doesn't K that much. Guys who cover international prospects don't even seem to know much about them, let alone guys sitting in a cubicle on Soxtalk. How can anyone have such strong feelings about this one way or the other?

Regardless, I'll go back to where the conversation started. 3 years from now, I'd rather have an infield of Moncada, Anderson and Madrigal with payroll flexibility than Machado, Anderson and Moncada without any payroll flexibility.

Players who are not great nor elite do not sign for $300 millions.

Lol, nothing like doubling down on stupid. He’s played 3B the vast majority of his career. He asked the Orioles to play SS basically to improve his FA stock and prove he could play there. He did play SS for LAD, because ya know, their SS was hurt. Hes an elite 3B, and was going to play 3B no matter where he signed.

Machado is a future fat guy? The guy is on amazing shape. Are we being serious here? ?

You’re......a few days behind there man.

TRADE HIM.

Do you really have to be so condescending and spiteful to everyone all the time? We get it, you are really smart and amazing (see what I did there?)

They're not high ceiling. High ceiling means that if a lot goes right they're top 20 prospects in the game. None of those guys were ever that good. High floor means they still have an outside shot of being a MLB player even if they don't hit their intended ability. That is why both Collins and Fulmer were high floor picks. Both were unlikely to start/catch, but they were still supposed to have an outside shot at sticking as a 1B/RP. They were, in fact, low ceiling/high floor picks that were somewhat disguised as high ceiling picks. If you take a college reliever in the 1st round that is also 100% a low ceiling pick. You do that, you better be damn sure the guy stays healthy and reaches the majors quickly.

That he had a high likelihood of still finding time in the majors based off his bat and approach is what high floor means.

Beltre and Chavez played in a different era, looking at raw numbers do not do these players justice. Looking at these players through age 25: Beltre - 23.4 bWAR, 17.3 oWAR, 7.8 dWAR, 0 GG Chavez - 20.2 bWAR, 19.2 oWAR 2.5 dWAR, 3 GGs Machado - 33.8 bWAR, 25.8 oWAR, 11.3 dWAR, 2 GGs Like others have said, Beltre was incredibly consistent throughout his career and built one of the best resume for a 3B in the entire history of MLB. Chavez could have had some HOF considerations as well given the good start to his career, but injuries robbed him of his prime and his output quickly tailed off after age 27. Manny has had the best start to his career out of the three, and he's given no reason he's on the trajectory of Chavez. As of now, he is one of the greats of the present players and also one of the great 3Bs through age 25 in the history of the game.

This is a pretty brutal argument pal. So elite players only sign with big teams? That doesn't make much sense.

Your analysis is beyond flawed. Sometimes players take the most money offered. If the Gary Railcats offered 300 million dollar contracts my guess is that their lineup would be a lot better than it is today regardless.

You really think him signing with the Padres is a good argument for why he's not elite?

No one would disagree with you about him not being an elite shortstop. In fact, no one is even saying that he is one. It's not the position he will be playing go forward. This is why you come off as not being a good baseball observer or not paying attention to some here.

Who is Stephen Smith?

Is Giancarlo Stanton great? I certainly don't think so.

Yeah, if these guys are more than bench players on the Chicago White Sox.

Did Machado kick your dog or something?

Hes not elite at anything. Hes very good.

Do you even realize he's not playing SS?

LOL! ? Who ever benefits from being around White Sox hitting coaches?

If you're going to play McCann, hit him no higher than 8th.

adam dunn was in the majors 2 years ago compared to collins. it's catcher or nothing for ZC.

The actual application of the theory would be signing/acquiring $45 million of over 30 players over paying the younger higher upside/greater financial risk player, not signing a player they already have to an extension.

No. But, if you don't like the front office to be criticized, there's always WSI if you want polyanna-ish white sox commentary. IMHO, there is room for the "In Kenny We Trust" types, inasmuch as there is room for those who want to give this org the beating they so richly deserve in this part of the interwebs. YMMV.

The worst part is that people are so butthurt about Machado that they're invading other threads calling Burger a fat ass, talking shit about Robert and throwing a fit about Eloy being extended. It would he fine if the b****fest was contained in the Machado thread, but don't throw other players under the bus.

Ok then. Good for you man. I hope you are not near this miserable of a human in real life.

What a disgusting post.

But a major difference. Houston only had 6 years( 2009-2014) playing below .500. We just finished our 6th year below .500. So it looks like Houston started rebuilding in Year 1 of their slide and we started in Year 4.

If this is truly the plan then we should expect another 2-3 years of full on tanking. The Sox will need to continue to stock the farm with top 5 draft picks. Hopefully they can flip Rodon, Herrera, and Colome for some useful pieces as well.