Paulie4Pres Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 They're forcing players to choose between going to college and being a kid, or immediately starting their "pro" career. I'd wager the overwhelming majority of these 17 and 18 year old high school kids lack the maturity to be a "professional" anything. Let alone thrown into an MLB farm system. Yes, the higher round picks are well compensated, but how many rounds are there in the MLB draft, again? And from what I understand, that college scholarship program is a negotiated part of their first contract. Meaning, not all players get it? Do we really believe an owner like Reinsdorf is paying for college for ALL of the guys that they draft? Lol, come on. My statement really wasn't about Noah Schultz. It's a general statement about the MLB's draft policy. The MLB is the only sport that works this way, and forces kids to choose college or a pro career immediately. Hell, the NBA won't even let you draft high school kids. I think kids having to make those decisions right out of high school is fucked up. But to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 But they aren’t forcing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Forcing kids to go to college because you don’t want to pay them full salaries before they are productive vs giving them an opportunity to be paid while they learn the trade at lower levels is 100% better imo. The nba wasn’t being noble, they didn’t want to draft guys not yet ready to play and he “forced” into re signing them after only four years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: Yes, the higher round picks are well compensated, but how many rounds are there in the MLB draft, again? And from what I understand, that college scholarship program is a negotiated part of their first contract. Meaning, not all players get it? Do we really believe an owner like Reinsdorf is paying for college for ALL of the guys that they draft? Lol, come on. The scholarship fund is not a negotiated part of the first contract. It's a separate piece from the signing bonus and every player regardless of round is eligible. Yes, Jerry Reinsdorf is paying for college for every player they draft along with every other MLB owner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: They're forcing players to choose between going to college and being a kid, or immediately starting their "pro" career. I'd wager the overwhelming majority of these 17 and 18 year old high school kids lack the maturity to be a "professional" anything. Let alone thrown into an MLB farm system. Yes, the higher round picks are well compensated, but how many rounds are there in the MLB draft, again? And from what I understand, that college scholarship program is a negotiated part of their first contract. Meaning, not all players get it? Do we really believe an owner like Reinsdorf is paying for college for ALL of the guys that they draft? Lol, come on. My statement really wasn't about Noah Schultz. It's a general statement about the MLB's draft policy. The MLB is the only sport that works this way, and forces kids to choose college or a pro career immediately. Hell, the NBA won't even let you draft high school kids. I think kids having to make those decisions right out of high school is fucked up. But to each their own. Man, if you think the basketball one-and-dones aren't essentially starting their own pro careers in college, I don't know what to tell you. Especially now that they can get sponsors. Bryce Bush can still get a college degree if he wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Forcing kids to go to college because you don’t want to pay them full salaries before they are productive vs giving them an opportunity to be paid while they learn the trade at lower levels is 100% better imo. The nba wasn’t being noble, they didn’t want to draft guys not yet ready to play and he “forced” into re signing them after only four years. The MLB was quite literally BUILT on not paying players full salaries when they ARE productive early in their careers. What are we even talking about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: The scholarship fund is not a negotiated part of the first contract. It's a separate piece from the signing bonus and every player regardless of round is eligible. Yes, Jerry Reinsdorf is paying for college for every player they draft along with every other MLB owner. Source? Because this right from MLB, disagrees with you: MLB | College Scholarship | Player Guide 2017 | MLB.com Quote The CEP provides benefits to those players who had negotiated for participation in the CEP as part of their first professional Minor League Uniform Player Contract. Edited July 18, 2022 by Paulie4Pres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: They're forcing players to choose between going to college and being a kid, or immediately starting their "pro" career. I'd wager the overwhelming majority of these 17 and 18 year old high school kids lack the maturity to be a "professional" anything. Let alone thrown into an MLB farm system. Yes, the higher round picks are well compensated, but how many rounds are there in the MLB draft, again? And from what I understand, that college scholarship program is a negotiated part of their first contract. Meaning, not all players get it? Do we really believe an owner like Reinsdorf is paying for college for ALL of the guys that they draft? Lol, come on. My statement really wasn't about Noah Schultz. It's a general statement about the MLB's draft policy. The MLB is the only sport that works this way, and forces kids to choose college or a pro career immediately. Hell, the NBA won't even let you draft high school kids. I think kids having to make those decisions right out of high school is fucked up. But to each their own. You must not be aware of what the word "force" means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: You must not be aware of what the word "force" means Your grasp of the English language seems to be the issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: They're forcing players to choose between going to college and being a kid, or immediately starting their "pro" career. I'd wager the overwhelming majority of these 17 and 18 year old high school kids lack the maturity to be a "professional" anything. Let alone thrown into an MLB farm system. Yes, the higher round picks are well compensated, but how many rounds are there in the MLB draft, again? And from what I understand, that college scholarship program is a negotiated part of their first contract. Meaning, not all players get it? Do we really believe an owner like Reinsdorf is paying for college for ALL of the guys that they draft? Lol, come on. My statement really wasn't about Noah Schultz. It's a general statement about the MLB's draft policy. The MLB is the only sport that works this way, and forces kids to choose college or a pro career immediately. Hell, the NBA won't even let you draft high school kids. I think kids having to make those decisions right out of high school is fucked up. But to each their own. On any given year the Sox only draft a few HS players anyway, so it isn't like this is a big deal. They draft more college seniors than they do high school seniors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: The MLB was quite literally BUILT on not paying players full salaries when they ARE productive early in their careers. What are we even talking about here? It's not quite literally built on that. It also doesn't artificially cap player earnings like in NBA or have non-guaranteed contracts. And the earning power in MLB destroys the nhl. When we get to day 3 you can cry about this with me, but Noah Schultz is much better off being given the choice of millions to go play pro now or going to vanderbilt for 3 years. He chose going pro. Chose. Jack Leiter chose to go to college, I wonder why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said: Source? Because this right from MLB, disagrees with you: MLB | College Scholarship | Player Guide 2017 | MLB.com That's from 2016. The rules have changed and the negotiated language has been removed. https://www.mlb.com/official-information/scholarship/reimbursement-guide-2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) I can think of 4 starters this century that the Sox have developed pillar to post. There have been a handful of temporary 5th-starter types (one of whom is starting for the Pirates) but not many legitimate starters. On the other hand, there have been many that they grabbed from other teams while still in the minors who have turned out well (I can think of 5 currently in the majors and then several prior). Anyway, I hope the development program is up to the challenge. On edit, my count is up to 6 starters developed pillar to post this century, 4 of whom are still in the majors. One was a high-school draftee. Edited July 18, 2022 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: That's from 2016. The rules have changed and the negotiated language has been removed. https://www.mlb.com/official-information/scholarship/reimbursement-guide-2017 Uh, it's actually not. It's right on the MLB scholarship page. Called "CEP guide for players". Right above the link you just provided... Which is just a reimbursement guide. MLB | College Scholarship | MLB.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Maybe you are both right? I could see it going to all eligible players automatically. I could also seeing it being "negotiated" because a college senior who has already graduated might not be eligible since he has already completed the benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 4 3 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, bmags said: It's not quite literally built on that. It also doesn't artificially cap player earnings like in NBA or have non-guaranteed contracts. And the earning power in MLB destroys the nhl. When we get to day 3 you can cry about this with me, but Noah Schultz is much better off being given the choice of millions to go play pro now or going to vanderbilt for 3 years. He chose going pro. Chose. Jack Leiter chose to go to college, I wonder why? Vanderbilt abuses their arms too; don't want to miss that point. Sox are saving him from that abuse. That said, the NBA doesn't "artificially" cap earnings. The NBA players get a bigger share of the pie than MLB players so very difficult to be critical of the NBA structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 The reason I don't love the pick is that the bust rate is massive. Sure, if they hit they get a superstar talent, but guys his size just don't last as starters in the big leagues in general, and high school arms also are a very risky pick. The Sox love love love these huge ceiling arms, but with the exception of Sale none of them have really worked out and Sale was much more polished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: Maybe you are both right? I could see it going to all eligible players automatically. I could also seeing it being "negotiated" because a college senior who has already graduated might not be eligible since he has already completed the benefit? If there's a "negotiated" part comes from where the player is committed to play baseball. A guy can't be committed to Triton JC and ask for Harvard tuition money (though some teams have tried). They'll "negotiate" something like we'll pay the equivalent of Northern IL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Paulie4Pres said: They're forcing players to choose between going to college and being a kid, or immediately starting their "pro" career. I'd wager the overwhelming majority of these 17 and 18 year old high school kids lack the maturity to be a "professional" anything. Let alone thrown into an MLB farm system. Yes, the higher round picks are well compensated, but how many rounds are there in the MLB draft, again? And from what I understand, that college scholarship program is a negotiated part of their first contract. Meaning, not all players get it? Do we really believe an owner like Reinsdorf is paying for college for ALL of the guys that they draft? Lol, come on. My statement really wasn't about Noah Schultz. It's a general statement about the MLB's draft policy. The MLB is the only sport that works this way, and forces kids to choose college or a pro career immediately. Hell, the NBA won't even let you draft high school kids. I think kids having to make those decisions right out of high school is fucked up. But to each their own. That’s a weird take. MLB is the only sport that gives prep players options to go to college or turn pro. NFL and NBA forces players to go to college. Great players in college basketball turn pro after a year if they think they’re a lottery pick anyways. In facts players have long complained about having to play in college with minimum compensation that now NBA allows prep players to play in the G League for a year and become eligible for draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The reason I don't love the pick is that the bust rate is massive. Sure, if they hit they get a superstar talent, but guys his size just don't last as starters in the big leagues in general, and high school arms also are a very risky pick. The Sox love love love these huge ceiling arms, but with the exception of Sale none of them have really worked out and Sale was much more polished. Even though he's apparently an ass on the field, I kinda wanted Drew Gilbert. I remember when it looked like the Sox had fixed Alec Hansen (and his 6-8 statute) and then that went to shit, so...we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 So when is his appointment scheduled with Dr Andrews? Probably sounds crazy, but hopefully it happens sooner rather than later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Quin said: Even though he's apparently an ass on the field, I kinda wanted Drew Gilbert. I remember when it looked like the Sox had fixed Alec Hansen (and his 6-8 statute) and then that went to shit, so...we'll see. I agree with this. While I really do appreciate the White Sox going with massive upside high school talent, a player like Drew Gilbert, Sterlin Thompson, or Dylan Beavers offered left handed offensive non DH potential that this team is sorely lacking. With our window now and hopefully the next few years that would have been way more beneficial than a HS arm that may be ready when all of our current players price themselves onto other teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, T R U said: I agree with this. While I really do appreciate the White Sox going with massive upside high school talent, a player like Drew Gilbert, Sterlin Thompson, or Dylan Beavers offered left handed offensive non DH potential that this team is sorely lacking. With our window now and hopefully the next few years that would have been way more beneficial than a HS arm that may be ready when all of our current players price themselves onto other teams. It's a complicated issue. I will always want the team I root for to go for BPA, at all times, in the MLB Draft. Different for other sports, but I never believe in drafting for a need with MLB. So if the Sox thought he was BPA, I'm for it. It becomes more complicated when you don't have faith in the structure of the White Sox and their development plan. If there is an argument to be made that they are more successful with college bats than a high school arm, I can see taking a player that fits that profile more to try and hedge your bet, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tony said: It's a complicated issue. I will always want the team I root for to go for BPA, at all times, in the MLB Draft. Different for other sports, but I never believe in drafting for a need with MLB. So if the Sox thought he was BPA, I'm for it. It becomes more complicated when you don't have faith in the structure of the White Sox and their development plan. If there is an argument to be made that they are more successful with college bats than a high school arm, I can see taking a player that fits that profile more to try and hedge your bet, so to speak. Yes. And another angle that’s rarely talked about here but probably extensively talked about in the FO is: ”When do we want to cash in on the value of this pick?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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