Fire Rick Hahn

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

10 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

KW is taking over? We can narrow down who he’s targeting. Who is 38 and going to be a future hall of famer?

Madison Bumgarner, Adam Wainwright, and Miggy, welcome to the White Sox

[wegner]

1 minute ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Madison Bumgarner, Adam Wainwright, and Miggy, welcome to the White Sox

Might wanna lure ARod out of retirement 

[PitchatRisktoZisk]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let KW handle the deadline.  Formally let Hahn go in October.  Immediately hire Mike Chernoff to be our President of Baseball Ops.  Let him rebuild the front office as he see fits, but hopefully that means Haber, Getz, & KW JR amongst many others go.  Fire the entire coaching staff even if it costs money.  Accept that 2024 & 2025 could be very ugly, but do the right things to build sustained success.  This is the way and it all starts with Rick being relieved of his duties.

Hard to argue with any of what you propose. That said, remembering who owns this team, I'm 80% sure that Getz is the next GM. Only in Jerryland can all these incompetents keep getting promoted or kicked upstairs. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Madison Bumgarner, Adam Wainwright, and Miggy, welcome to the White Sox

Wainwright is definitely retiring. 

[South Side Hit Men]

We are approaching the one year anniversary of Hahn announcing he was unable to improve the club in 2022.

“We're disappointed that we weren't able to do more to improve this club,” Hahn said. “I think you saw a year ago at this time, you've seen it for the last several years, arguably the last couple of decades, that it's our nature to try to improve this club at any opportunity we have. “Unfortunately, we weren't able to line up on some of our other potential targets.”

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Rick Hahn spoke of “winning the division and doing some damage in the postseason” and having the “best record in the division since May 1st” the last time he spoke to the media.

Stay tuned for more BS and spin this Tuesday before the Cubs game.

He also was unable to do anything significant the winter before or the winter after, yet this guy is still in place. What a joke.

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He also was unable to do anything significant the winter before or the winter after, yet this guy is still in place. What a joke.

Lucks out again with local media focusing on Bellinger and Stroman...probably more interest in Ohtani in Chicago than the current Sox season.

[Sarava]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let KW handle the deadline.  Formally let Hahn go in October.  Immediately hire Mike Chernoff to be our President of Baseball Ops.  Let him rebuild the front office as he see fits, but hopefully that means Haber, Getz, & KW JR amongst many others go.  Fire the entire coaching staff even if it costs money.  Accept that 2024 & 2025 could be very ugly, but do the right things to build sustained success.  This is the way and it all starts with Rick being relieved of his duties.

I'm all for it. But why would Chernoff leave Cleveland for this shitshow of a franchise?

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

I'm all for it. But why would Chernoff leave Cleveland for this shitshow of a franchise?

As is the reason for everyone, everywhere, it would be presumably money 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Sarava said:

I'm all for it. But why would Chernoff leave Cleveland for this shitshow of a franchise?

He’d get to be the head baseball decision maker with a much bigger salary with a much bigger budget to work with.  Perhaps he’s content in Cleveland, but I see our job being attractive if Jerry will the new President of Baseball Ops to build the org how he sees fit and doesn’t force near-term winning of him.

[GreenSox]

Hahn learned the game from KW and a lot of Hahn's moves were similar to KW's.    KW's many dumb moves weren't devastating and he made more nifty moves than Hahn.  But Hahn also didn't have the farm  that KW inherited (which KW helped build prior to becoming GM).   And KW's last moves as GM to try to save the 2012 season were really bad.
KW can handle July I guess, but he needs to go too.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Hahn learned the game from KW and a lot of Hahn's moves were similar to KW's.    KW's many dumb moves weren't devastating and he made more nifty moves than Hahn.  But Hahn also didn't have the farm  that KW inherited (which KW helped build prior to becoming GM).   And KW's last moves as GM to try to save the 2012 season were really bad.
KW can handle July I guess, but he needs to go too.

Kenny arguably did more with less of a farm.

[GreenSox]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Kenny arguably did more with less of a farm.

Kenny, inarguably, did more.  A lot more.
But, he inherited a division winning team and a very good farm.  The farm that Hahn inherited was terrible, and, of course, he's made it worse

[JoeC]

Kenny inherited a core of valuable assets and a decent farm, and he did a remarkable job of stretching that window of contention.

Hahn inherited a disaster of a core and a barren farm, and I will at least give him a credit for getting us to the table (2020 / 1st half of 2021). He's since turned it into a bigger disaster than he started with, but IMO he did get us about 70% of the way to legitimate contention.

[Kyyle23]

50 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Kenny, inarguably, did more.  A lot more.
But, he inherited a division winning team and a very good farm.  The farm that Hahn inherited was terrible, and, of course, he's made it worse

Kenny’s inability to do anything with anything he built resulted in them kicking him upstairs and putting Hahn in his place and creating this fog of confusion where nobody can pinpoint who has been completely responsible for anything.  Was it KW getting his guy?  No it was Hahn getting someone he wanted 4 years ago in the draft.  
 

neither of them should handle July.  Neither have earned it.  They both probably will and we will watch them dictate the future of the team they already fucked up 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

59 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Kenny arguably did more with less of a farm.

That was his farm that wasn’t full enough.  He did that 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

That was his farm that wasn’t full enough.  He did that 

yes, though will always stress that the CBA changes in 2012 moved sharply in hahn's favor. OTOH Kenny oversaw someone who was siphoning money from his operation and was federally convicted and also wasn't delivering good players so weird how he kept the job so long.

[bmags]

but anyway, this is nihilist soxtalk now. I will cheer when Hahn leaves. But there is like zero date to true resolution. The McCaskeys are terrible owners, but at least they cycle thru people that show themselves terrible, and even though they will hire likely bad choices, we still have hope.

We entered this year and only one thing could happen - they needed to win. ANd they are one of the worst teams in baseball and in an org that refuses to judge success by anything other than congeniality in the executive ranks. 

[South Side Hit Men]

The two primary differences between Kenny and Hahn are Kenny could assess baseball talent and was successful flipping his poor prospects for veteran talent.

Hahn cannot assess talent, including in his own system, dealt his best prospects for bad end of line veterans, and hangs onto the bad ones until the point nothing can be salvaged.

Hahn needed solid baseball people around him to help with player evaluation, but he instead hired Michigan cronies equally inept at talent evaluation.

[The Kids Can Play]

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let KW handle the deadline.  Formally let Hahn go in October.  Immediately hire Mike Chernoff to be our President of Baseball Ops.  Let him rebuild the front office as he see fits, but hopefully that means Haber, Getz, & KW JR amongst many others go.  Fire the entire coaching staff even if it costs money.  Accept that 2024 & 2025 could be very ugly, but do the right things to build sustained success.  This is the way and it all starts with Rick being relieved of his duties.

Mike Chernoff checks all the right boxes and would be a home run, but yes as you pointed out, he isn't leaving unless he is the president of baseball ops and is allowed to hire his own GM from the outside, as well as cleaning house from scouting to farm system coaches, etc.  

Sadly this is too logical and probably not on our POS owner's radar. 

[T R U]

The White Sox job should be a very attractive job. You would get to GM a team that has shown it will spend money to an extent, not necessarily on individual players but as a total payroll. A good GM could do wonders with a $180 million dollar payroll, that's no issue. The rest of the division isn't spending like that, maybe Detroit, but if you think you're a good GM you could run this division no problem year in and out.

On the flip side of that, you also would get to build your reputation and if the White Sox refuse to sign the Harper's or Machado's of the world and can't resign their Giolito's or Cease's, then you get to parlay that into a gig with an organization that WILL spend the money when you get tired of being dicked around. Win win if you're an up and coming GM candidate in my opinion.

Here's the problem. If the White Sox GM position is going to be open when the season ends, how in the f*** can the current regime be allowed to make trades and decisions for the future of this franchise? If Rick Hahn is out of a job, why is he still in a position to make franchise altering decisions right now? He is still in charge, its frightening, and I lean more to the side of he absolutely will be back as GM next season. What proof is there otherwise that he won't?

Does anyone really believe they have internally passed the reigns to KW for the deadline and told Hahn he's going to be out? Why wouldn't you just fire him if that were the case.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

The White Sox job should be a very attractive job. You would get to GM a team that has shown it will spend money to an extent, not necessarily on individual players but as a total payroll. A good GM could do wonders with a $180 million dollar payroll, that's no issue. The rest of the division isn't spending like that, maybe Detroit, but if you think you're a good GM you could run this division no problem year in and out.

On the flip side of that, you also would get to build your reputation and if the White Sox refuse to sign the Harper's or Machado's of the world and can't resign their Giolito's or Cease's, then you get to parlay that into a gig with an organization that WILL spend the money when you get tired of being dicked around. Win win if you're an up and coming GM candidate in my opinion.

Here's the problem. If the White Sox GM position is going to be open when the season ends, how in the f*** can the current regime be allowed to make trades and decisions for the future of this franchise? If Rick Hahn is out of a job, why is he still in a position to make franchise altering decisions right now? He is still in charge, its frightening, and I lean more to the side of he absolutely will be back as GM next season. What proof is there otherwise that he won't?

Does anyone really believe they have internally passed the reigns to KW for the deadline and told Hahn he's going to be out? Why wouldn't you just fire him if that were the case.

I honestly don't think it's an attractive job at all and the types of people it would be attractive too are the kind that will be awful GMs. You generally don't want to attract talent in a role like this which has a key selling point of "we won't fire you even after it's proven you are bad!"

It is extremely unclear what are true Reinsdorf rules and what are decisions his incompetent executives have made. I think it's fair to say the "big contract" stuff is a Reinsdorf rule. He will never, ever set the market. 

The avoidance of top international talent seems to be a reinsdorf rule, but it's unclear whether that is truly the case. It has seemed - as seen by the draft - that when a set budget is placed in it seems like sox operate more freely. Was Reinsdorf against prep draft picks or where his deputies just constantly on the treadmill of trying to use the draft for immediate roster infusion - and thus college players.

Who to blame for the lack of investment in the minors and player dev? If it is reinsdorf, there is really no way you can build a winner. We don't get awarded extra draft picks, so if we can't try to overwhelm other teams that do with superior PD, then it really does funnel straight to "we need to use ourslightly better major league roster salary budgets to gain an advantage over our division". But that comes back to we can't spend big numbers on top talent, only mid. 

It's really hard to know what makes this group mid all the way down.

[The Kids Can Play]

55 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Kenny inherited a core of valuable assets and a decent farm, and he did a remarkable job of stretching that window of contention.

Hahn inherited a disaster of a core and a barren farm, and I will at least give him a credit for getting us to the table (2020 / 1st half of 2021). He's since turned it into a bigger disaster than he started with, but IMO he did get us about 70% of the way to legitimate contention.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Hahn doesn't deserve any credit. Baseball is a a unique sport and different from baseball or football. In those sports you can draft players and often they can make an impact right away. Baseball is completely different and no matter how much potential a baseball prospect has, it's takes several years to see that finished product at the major league level. Hahn convinced and fooled everyone that he handled the 2016 rebuild correctly, through all his wonderful and powerful trades and draft picks. Yet in the end, the trades and draft picks were a complete bust and trainwreck.

I'm sorry, but Hahn doesn't get brownie points for getting the Sox close in 2020/2021. He especially doesn't get credit when he arrogantly told the media and fans...to talk to him at the parade. 

Keep in mind, Hahn is the one that was adamant to tear it all down and do a complete rebuild, which according to many sources, was not what Jerry or Kenny wanted to do. As a result, if Hahn stomped his feet loud enough to get his way...then he damn well should have backed it up and finished the job to a WS championship or at least sniffing the World Series.

[South Side Hit Men]

It’s not an attractive job because Jerry wants things done his way and there is a good probability  Jerry dies during your 5-6 year tenure.

Unless his kids take over, a new owner will likely want their own management team after a transition period.

No solid external person is going to want to step into this situation.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It’s not an attractive job because Jerry wants things done his way and there is a good probability  Jerry dies during your 5-6 year tenure.

Unless his kids take over, a new owner will likely want their own management team after a transition period.

No solid external person is going to want to step into this situation.

If we’re thinking on the 5 year horizon there’s also a stadium issue that is going to hit whoever the next GM is. A team that can’t draw fans trying to negotiate for a new stadium in a state that is unlikely to want to pay for it is a bad place to be, one that will affect a GM as well.