SoCalChiSox Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Just now, TheBooneLoganEra said: I like him a lot. Prob not ready til 2025. That's ok....we won't be competing next year anyway. Biggest issue is TA has little value. Before the season, we could have gotten Rushing plus a solid SP prospect for TA plus maybe one other piece (value wise). Now TA has no value, Hendriks can't be moved cause he is out and not back to being a closer anyway and Giolito alone for half a season won't be anywhere near enough for just Rushing alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 29 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: Exchanging Lucas Giolito and Joey Ortiz from the Orioles seems to be a no brainer for both clubs. If you can steal another prospect in the deal great. Package TA with a bullpen arm to get some mlb ready starting pitching in return. Shop your bullpen and see what you can get. But none of this keep them down for service time nonsense. Bring them to the big league club right away to let them bond here. It'll give us something to watch in the second half and maybe serve as a wake up call to some of the others. I realistically expect none of this to happen. I would love to make trades with the Orioles. That's a deep farm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: That's ok....we won't be competing next year anyway. Biggest issue is TA has little value. Before the season, we could have gotten Rushing plus a solid SP prospect for TA plus maybe one other piece (value wise). Now TA has no value, Hendriks can't be moved cause he is out and not back to being a closer anyway and Giolito alone for half a season won't be anywhere near enough for just Rushing alone. Lot of painful truths here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, T R U said: I would love to make trades with the Orioles. That's a deep farm. It is. And he's a little bit blocked and they need SP. Lot of speculation in Baltimore that he'll be their trade piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 22 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Robert started the day with the 3rd highest fWAR in the game. I would hope they/fans would rather watch a star than see Hahn fail to execute yet another "slam dunk" trade that should be stocked in favor of the Sox. Not only is Robert 3rd in fWar in MLB, he is 3rd in slugging % and tied for 3rd in home runs. As dumb as Hahn, Kenny and Jerry are, they are not stupid enough to trade away the only bonafide superstar on this Sox team. A superstar in the making that Sox fans actually will pay money to go watch. I don't care how many great prospects the Sox could get back from a Robert trade, it wouldn't be worth it, As the Sox fans well know this fact, in baseball there are no guarantees on whether a highly ranked prospect will even make it. As we know Hahn usually screws these trades up. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Bring it full circle and see if Preller trades a suped up LatAm signing for Yasmani Grandal in a wild act of desperation. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 hours ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: Exchanging Lucas Giolito and Joey Ortiz from the Orioles seems to be a no brainer for both clubs. If you can steal another prospect in the deal great. Package TA with a bullpen arm to get some mlb ready starting pitching in return. Shop your bullpen and see what you can get. But none of this keep them down for service time nonsense. Bring them to the big league club right away to let them bond here. It'll give us something to watch in the second half and maybe serve as a wake up call to some of the others. I realistically expect none of this to happen. I don't care if he's blocked...Ortiz is currently #65 on the MLB.com rankings. You just don't get that kind of return for a good starting pitcher with 2 months of control. The Orioles definitely would make sense for the White Sox as a trading partner, they have top flight position players who could help the White Sox, but the O's shouldn't be trading for guys like Giolito unless they get them cheaply. They should be trading for guys like Cease, and that matchup works - 2 of the Orioles top prospects for Cease is a quality start to a deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't care if he's blocked...Ortiz is currently #65 on the MLB.com rankings. You just don't get that kind of return for a good starting pitcher with 2 months of control. The Orioles definitely would make sense for the White Sox as a trading partner, they have top flight position players who could help the White Sox, but the O's shouldn't be trading for guys like Giolito unless they get them cheaply. They should be trading for guys like Cease, and that matchup works - 2 of the Orioles top prospects for Cease is a quality start to a deal. And blocked by who even? Jorge Mateo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 hours ago, whitesoxfan99 said: Giolito is probably a touch better than Mahle was last year (despite some worse peripherals) but Mahle also had an extra year of control. The other comparison from last year is Jose Quintana. He had an ERA of 3.50 in the first half and his peripherals supported a good performance. He was cheap, and under control for 2 months. The return in this trade was Malcom Nunez, who was top 10 and/or top 20 in the Fangraphs and MLB.com lists of Cardinals prospects (therefore well outside the top 100) and Johan Oviedo, who was a top 10 prospect in the Cardinals system but who had some time spent struggling in the Cardinals rotation and been moved to the bullpen. He's back starting for the Pirates now. Basically, that deal was two "top-10 in the Cardinals system" guys for Quintana, one of whom was big league ready. Didn't return a top 100 prospect, but would return 2 guys who are probably top-10 in the White Sox system or at least comparable to that level. This is, to me, probably comparable value to what you'd expect for 2 months of Giolito, unless the market is much stronger than it was last year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't care if he's blocked...Ortiz is currently #65 on the MLB.com rankings. You just don't get that kind of return for a good starting pitcher with 2 months of control. The Orioles definitely would make sense for the White Sox as a trading partner, they have top flight position players who could help the White Sox, but the O's shouldn't be trading for guys like Giolito unless they get them cheaply. They should be trading for guys like Cease, and that matchup works - 2 of the Orioles top prospects for Cease is a quality start to a deal. I don't see them doing a mid season teardown by trading a Cease or Robert. Believe Jerry would rather have Lucas paired with another contract (Grandal, Lynn), pick up a few bulk innings Touki like guys in return or on waivers and just eat innings the rest of the season, Believe salary relief, not prospect return, will drive deadline trades. They can move a Cease or Robert in the offseason after season ticket invoices are paid, try to couple one or both with Yoan, Benintendi, Eloy, Graveman and have a minimal payroll until Jerry dies. Perhaps move Liam at the deadline and have a Liam day / bobblehead day In June/July before he is moved. Jerry rather have this roster than a legitimate multi-championship window contending roster, which Hahn has not created, nor is he able to create even with $200M. 2024 Roster $53M Catchers: $2M Zavala & Perez Infielders: $6M Burger, Gonzalez, Moustakas, Remillard, Sosa, Vaughn. Outfielders: $8M Colas, Grossman, Haseley, Profar, Sheets, Starting Pitchers: $11M Banks, Crochet, Kopech, Scholtens, Toussaint, Vincent Velasquez, Luke Weaver. Relief Pitchers: $26M Alexy, Bummer, Hendriks, Lambert, Middleton, Padilla, Santos, Shaw, Stiever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said: That's ok....we won't be competing next year anyway. Biggest issue is TA has little value. Before the season, we could have gotten Rushing plus a solid SP prospect for TA plus maybe one other piece (value wise). Now TA has no value, Hendriks can't be moved cause he is out and not back to being a closer anyway and Giolito alone for half a season won't be anywhere near enough for just Rushing alone. If you believe Nightengale (JR's mouthpiece) Hendriks won't be traded regardless of his health status because "he is one of JR's favorites..." 😆 The owner yet again sticking his nose into an area where it doesn't belong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't care if he's blocked...Ortiz is currently #65 on the MLB.com rankings. You just don't get that kind of return for a good starting pitcher with 2 months of control. The Orioles definitely would make sense for the White Sox as a trading partner, they have top flight position players who could help the White Sox, but the O's shouldn't be trading for guys like Giolito unless they get them cheaply. They should be trading for guys like Cease, and that matchup works - 2 of the Orioles top prospects for Cease is a quality start to a deal. I agree. Doesn't mean they can't try to make it work by packaging someone else with Giolito. But they won't, nor should they, trade Cease. I mostly stand by that because it'll be Hahn making these moves and I don't want him making trades with our top tier guys again. And you need someone to build around because they will not do a total tear down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 3 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said: That's ok....we won't be competing next year anyway. Biggest issue is TA has little value. Before the season, we could have gotten Rushing plus a solid SP prospect for TA plus maybe one other piece (value wise). Now TA has no value, Hendriks can't be moved cause he is out and not back to being a closer anyway and Giolito alone for half a season won't be anywhere near enough for just Rushing alone. I don't know that the White Sox are going into any kind of rebuild. That's not to say they wouldn't take a better prospect who is 2 years away vs. one who can make an immediate impact, but I think they will try to add 2-3 possible prospects for next season. I think Giolito can return 1-2 good prospects - if the starting pitching market is thin. Maybe they package him with a reliever to slightly upgrade return value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 58 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: If you believe Nightengale (JR's mouthpiece) Hendriks won't be traded regardless of his health status because "he is one of JR's favorites..." 😆 The owner yet again sticking his nose into an area where it doesn't belong. Is there a return for Hendriks right now? I would be surprised if he had much value with his health status. I think the White Sox won't pick up his option though if there's any concern on his health (which seems likely to continue being a concern). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 43 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: I agree. Doesn't mean they can't try to make it work by packaging someone else with Giolito. But they won't, nor should they, trade Cease. I mostly stand by that because it'll be Hahn making these moves and I don't want him making trades with our top tier guys again. And you need someone to build around because they will not do a total tear down again. If a desired prospect return requires another team making a clear mistake; then they probably won’t do it and it won’t be worth thinking about. The Orioles are a super young team with a deep system that is competing for a wild card. If they make trades, it should always be for guys that help them over several years, or it should only feature spare parts, not their top guys. It would be super dumb of a GM to dismantle his system by trading for guys who are expensive and who aren’t controlled (Cough Cough Cough). Those moves destroy both your depth and your financial flexibility, they are moves that bad GMs make. Not to mention — what other valuable player do the White Sox have they can package with Giolito? Kelly or Lopez? Burger? If they aren’t moving Cease, they don’t have anything that is worth a top 100 prospect even as a package unless a team dramatically overpays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, spiderman said: Is there a return for Hendriks right now? I would be surprised if he had much value with his health status. I think the White Sox won't pick up his option though if there's any concern on his health (which seems likely to continue being a concern). His elbow is apparently a long term concern, we learned that last year. I believe he is actually pitching through a long term elbow injury. That’s why they were ultra cautious with him and gave him months of true rehab after he was cancer free. Bringing him back only weeks after chemo with little actual game experience would be nearly criminal, you’d be needlessly risking that elbow flaring up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, spiderman said: Is there a return for Hendriks right now? I would be surprised if he had much value with his health status. I think the White Sox won't pick up his option though if there's any concern on his health (which seems likely to continue being a concern). Nightengale also specifically said that Hendriks wouldn't be traded next year either and that the Sox would pick up his fourth year option for what its worth. (Again consider the source) Again because JR likes him. 😆 Edited July 6, 2023 by Lip Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 8 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Nightengale also specifically said that Hendriks wouldn't be traded next year either and that the Sox would pick up his fourth year option for what its worth. (Again consider the source) Again because JR likes him. 😆 Why wouldn't the White Sox pickup Liams option?. He has been one of the best relief pitchers in MLB the last few years. Not having him in the bullpen this year has really hurt the bullpen and the team this year. The team would have had more wins if he would have pitched this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, WBWSF said: Why wouldn't the White Sox pickup Liams option?. He has been one of the best relief pitchers in MLB the last few years. Not having him in the bullpen this year has really hurt the bullpen and the team this year. The team would have had more wins if he would have pitched this year. If we were being harsh, he has a known elbow issue that has flared up the last two seasons already. There is a decent risk of him missing the entire season, and right now you have to say it seems likely he will miss a month somewhere in 2024. If he has any setbacks in the second half of 2023, you would definitely consider using that option if it weren’t for the other things going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If we were being harsh, he has a known elbow issue that has flared up the last two seasons already. There is a decent risk of him missing the entire season, and right now you have to say it seems likely he will miss a month somewhere in 2024. If he has any setbacks in the second half of 2023, you would definitely consider using that option if it weren’t for the other things going on. Seems like picking up his option and hoping hes back to the old Liam next season would make more sense than buying him out and paying him $1.5 million per year until 2033, but who knows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 13 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: I don't see them doing a mid season teardown by trading a Cease or Robert. Believe Jerry would rather have Lucas paired with another contract (Grandal, Lynn), pick up a few bulk innings Touki like guys in return or on waivers and just eat innings the rest of the season, Believe salary relief, not prospect return, will drive deadline trades. They can move a Cease or Robert in the offseason after season ticket invoices are paid, try to couple one or both with Yoan, Benintendi, Eloy, Graveman and have a minimal payroll until Jerry dies. Perhaps move Liam at the deadline and have a Liam day / bobblehead day In June/July before he is moved. Jerry rather have this roster than a legitimate multi-championship window contending roster, which Hahn has not created, nor is he able to create even with $200M. 2024 Roster $53M Catchers: $2M Zavala & Perez Infielders: $6M Burger, Gonzalez, Moustakas, Remillard, Sosa, Vaughn. Outfielders: $8M Colas, Grossman, Haseley, Profar, Sheets, Starting Pitchers: $11M Banks, Crochet, Kopech, Scholtens, Toussaint, Vincent Velasquez, Luke Weaver. Relief Pitchers: $26M Alexy, Bummer, Hendriks, Lambert, Middleton, Padilla, Santos, Shaw, Stiever. That team would be worse than the 1962 Mets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 15 hours ago, Quin said: Bring it full circle and see if Preller trades a suped up LatAm signing for Yasmani Grandal in a wild act of desperation. You are free to close the Padres thread if Preller does that. And Grandal already was part of the Padres organization, fyi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 They love to broadcast their intentions: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Just now, caulfield12 said: You are free to close the Padres thread if Preller does that. And Grandal already was part of the Padres organization, fyi. Yeah, that's why I picked Grandal over Gio or Lynn (who would be the ultimate Shields comp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: They love to broadcast their intentions: Which players after Gio, Grandal, Middleton, Andrus, Lynn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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