5/31/2023 - Angels @ Sox (retroactive gamethread)

[pcq]

The best response I can come up with is to have a Chicago Fire outing at GRF. 

[Lip Man 1]

Total complete garbage.

[Lip Man 1]

Sox finish the month of May at 15-14. More mediocrity!.

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Sox finish the month of May at 15-14. More mediocrity!.

Yep, and the schedule was as soft as it will be all year. They had a chance to get back into it, they failed. I'd hazard a guess they play basically .450 ball from here on out and finish around 70 wins. It's just a mediocre team that would finish anywhere from 70-80 wins in any given year and this one's is trending towards the lower end of that projection.

[wegner]

58 minutes ago, T R U said:

Angels 17 base runners and 11 runs

White Sox 14 base runners and 3 runs

 

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Who misses Dane Dunning?

Yeah that's a tough one, but after careful thought...I do! LOL!

                            Age  W-L    ERA    WHIP   WAR        Salary
Lance Lynn         36    4-6    6.55    1.51    -0.4     $18,500,000
Dane Dunning    28    4-1    2.06    1.04     1.5           $742.840

[wegner]

34 minutes ago, pcq said:

The best response I can come up with is to have a Chicago Fire outing at GRF. 

You know how they sometimes have concerts after the game? How about have the concert 1st and whoever wants to stay for the ballgame can stay.

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, wegner said:

You know how they sometimes have concerts after the game? How about have the concert 1st and whoever wants to stay for the ballgame can stay.

Maybe Eloy can do a vaudeville act in between.

[Kyyle23]

41 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Why should I? Let’s get some eloquent analysis out there and get some public ripping on the postgame with Connor. I know several posters eat that s%*# up so they should do it. My call would be to talk about what to do at the deadline which is still a bit premature.

Lol why should anyone else at your request?

[Highland]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

Angels 17 base runners and 11 runs

White Sox 14 base runners and 3 runs

Nothing unusual about this. If the bases are loaded with none out, most likely no one will score.

[cuban_sammiches]

Lance is hot garbage. This team has no veteran leadership and is incredibly unlikeble.

[The Beast]

30 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Lol why should anyone else at your request?

Nobody would. It doesn’t matter what I say but it would make for an interesting call. The show ended without any calls.

[The Kids Can Play]

56 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Sox finish the month of May at 15-14. More mediocrity!.

If it wasn't already bad enough being 12 games under 500, the next 8 series are against teams all over .500 except for one team, which is the Tigers, the next series. The Tigers are actually only 2 games under .500 and obviously just kicked our ass taking 3 of 4 games. 

The next 25 games between those 8 teams will show us exactly how the MLB balanced schedule will destroy the inferior teams like the Sox, who also play in the weakest division. 

We don't play a crap team until the 9th series which is the Oakland A's on June 30-July 2.

Warning: This could get ugly and not recommended for the faint of heart! 

Thanks again JR and RH for making this such a fun 2023 baseball season. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Got to get with the times. All the 4 major sports have divisions in North America. Yes weak teams make the playoffs, it creates false hope, and generates a lot of revenue  for owners from TV and capacity houses. But every once in a while the unexpected happens and one of the lesser teams win it all. Florida Panthers and Las Vegas Golden Knights are in the Stanley Cup Final this year. Neither one of those teams were favored to win it all this year but one of them will. Might not be an ideal TV match up though.

 I do think with expanded playoffs it make the regular season less important and they should reduce the schedules back to 154 games  but once the money is scheduled to be in the coffers they don't want to remove it. It's hell on the pitchers health though. Those playoff arms with the extra games pitched need more recovery time. But like any sport being healthy means a lot.

Vegas has been consistently solid since inception, went 51-31 in the regular season. 

Florida won two World Series in a decade as an expansion team before the Sox appeared in one under Reinsdorf.

MLB is now like the other three when it comes to a near meaningless regular season in terms of playoff structure.

Football across the globe and CFB the last two sports where a season means anything. American owners continue to try to ruin Football as well (Liverpool the primary).

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, The Beast said:

Nobody would. It doesn’t matter what I say but it would make for an interesting call. The show ended without any calls.

Contact Berto again...for another rant.

[The Beast]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Contact Berto again...for another rant.

Yeah or one of the posters here with some statistics.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Vegas has been consistently solid since inception, went 51-31 in the regular season. 

Florida won two World Series in a decade as an expansion team before the Sox appeared in one under Reinsdorf.

MLB is now like the other three when it comes to a near meaningless regular season in terms of playoff structure.

Football across the globe and CFB the last two sports where a season means anything. American owners continue to try to ruin Football as well (Liverpool the primary).

Right you make my point even more valid. The  Golden KNights although a very good team they were 9th of 16 playoffs teams listed to win the Cup (+1400). The Panthers were 13th  (+3000).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072573-2023-nhl-stanley-cup-playoffs-updated-odds-for-all-16-teams

 

[Balta1701]

The good news is no one in the AL Central will be signing him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, Highland said:

Nothing unusual about this. If the bases are loaded with none out, most likely no one will score.

Except that the last 7 tr 8 times it happened( bases loaded less than 2 outs I think) the Sox were 7 for 7 with hits and one time with a sac fly. That ended when Vaughn hit into a DP but right before that he had the bases loaded double that cleared the bases in the same game.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yeah that's a tough one, but after careful thought...I do! LOL!

                            Age  W-L    ERA    WHIP   WAR        Salary
Lance Lynn         36    4-6    6.55    1.51    -0.4     $18,500,000
Dane Dunning    28    4-1    2.06    1.04     1.5           $742.840

You trade youth for Veterans in your contention window and Lynn was better than Dunning easily in 2021.

Lynn 157 IP 4.2 fWAR  (5.5 bWAR) 3rd in Cy Young voting

Dunning 117.2 IP 1.8 fWAR   (.7 bWAR)

2022

Lynn 121.2 IP Injured and sucked for all but his last 12 starts, 1.9 fWar  (.7 bWAR)

Dunning 153.1 IP  .9 fWar  (1.1 bWAR)

2023

Lynn 63.1 IP  .7 fWar  although I suspect it might be lower after today.

Dunning 43 IP 1.0 fWar He has only started 4 games and pitched in relief the other 8 games he has appeared in.

Context matters. The Sox needed Lynn in 2021  way more than they needed Dunning. 2022 was a slight edge to Dunning

You used BWAR which is acceptable for pitchers. It widened the gap between Lynn Dunning in 2021 with a huge edge to Lynn

It closed the gap in 2022. fWar had Lynn  1.0 WAR better while bWAR had Dunning .4 better even though he pitched 32.1 more innings.

2023 edge to Dunning but since he's only started 4 games its hard to compare them.

2021 Lynn was a big part of the Sox success.

Lynn has been a big part of the 22-23 WhiteSox failures.

Dunning wouldn't have made a difference in 2022 except for salary . Same in 2023. Going forward Lynn is likely toast. Going forward with Dunning is a mystery . He could end up back in the pen or become a reliable starter. The Rangers have him through 2026.

 

 

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You trade youth for Veterans in your contention window and Lynn was better than Dunning easily in 2021.

Lynn 157 IP 4.2 fWAR  (5.5 bWAR) 3rd in Cy Young voting

Dunning 117.2 IP 1.8 fWAR   (.7 bWAR)

2022

Lynn 121.2 IP Injured and sucked for all but his last 12 starts, 1.9 fWar  (.7 bWAR)

Dunning 153.1 IP  .9 fWar  (1.1 bWAR)

2023

Lynn 63.1 IP  .7 fWar  although I suspect it might be lower after today.

Dunning 43 IP 1.0 fWar He has only started 4 games and pitched in relief the other 8 games he has appeared in.

Context matters. The Sox needed Lynn in 2021  way more than they needed Dunning. 2022 was a slight edge to Dunning

You used BWAR which is acceptable for pitchers. It widened the gap between Lynn Dunning in 2021 with a huge edge to Lynn

It closed the gap in 2022. fWar had Lynn  1.0 WAR better while bWAR had Dunning .4 better even though he pitched 32.1 more innings.

2023 edge to Dunning but since he's only started 4 games its hard to compare them.

2021 Lynn was a big part of the Sox success.

Lynn has been a big part of the 22-23 WhiteSox failures.

Dunning wouldn't have made a difference in 2022 except for salary . Same in 2023. Going forward Lynn is likely toast. Going forward with Dunning is a mystery . He could end up back in the pen or become a reliable starter. The Rangers have him through 2026.

 

 

The problem at the time was that you can only make so many moves like that when you have a limited budget and no spare talent coming up to replace what they traded away. They gave up 6 years of control for 1 year and took on salary. It was a risky move in that context. If they had extra talent coming up, fine. If they were willing to put a lot of money on the line, fine. But, they were already running low on talent at the time, and they were doing things like putting their #1 draft picks in the bullpen rather than developing them as starters.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Right you make my point even more valid. The  Golden KNights although a very good team they were 9th of 16 playoffs teams listed to win the Cup (+1400). The Panthers were 13th  (+3000).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072573-2023-nhl-stanley-cup-playoffs-updated-odds-for-all-16-teams

My point is the regular season is now a farce in all sports with all of these pathetic wild cards, but Las Vegas has been a solid franchise during it's short existence.

I agree with your premise, just sticking up for the only team besides the White Sox I still follow care about at this juncture. 

[PitchatRisktoZisk]

6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Sox finish the month of May at 15-14. More mediocrity!.

Not after April. In Jerryland, this is called progress! 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem at the time was that you can only make so many moves like that when you have a limited budget and no spare talent coming up to replace what they traded away. They gave up 6 years of control for 1 year and took on salary. It was a risky move in that context. If they had extra talent coming up, fine. If they were willing to put a lot of money on the line, fine. But, they were already running low on talent at the time, and they were doing things like putting their #1 draft picks in the bullpen rather than developing them as starters.

For a chance at the World Series many teams do it though. In that context it wasn't all that risky. Giolito was in his 3rd season of getting Cy Young votes. After that he fell off . Cease was improving. Kopech was injured but was expected to be a high quality starter. We all know that the Sox have made that same mistake in years that they were mediocre. Samardzija, Bassitt, James Shields and in that context it is far worse. You cannot predict the future with youth. Dunning might look good ATM for his 12 appearances (8 in relief) but who knows how he'll do as as starter the rest of the year and in 24 and 25.

If we look at all the injuries that doomed the Sox as well as the lack of depth at all levels Dunning wouldn't have helped the Sox contend in 2022 or 2023 and what he does going forward is a mystery.

We can't talk about him now as if he's an All Star. He's not and he may never be. Fine depth for a contender like the Rangers With Dunning and without Lynn there's no playoffs in 2021 . If they weren't developing youth and kept every prospect they're likely still mediocre . Trades must be made at some point .

 I've long been saying the Sox have need to start getting more, youthful and operate more like Tampa Bay. We can't wish it into existence. Jerry and Hahn do what they do and we know what the usual results are. Crying about not having Dunning now is pure hindsight. At the time many thought it was a great trade for the "window".